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Old 08-24-2007, 03:34 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
Maybe off-topic here, but what is it with "Indian names" and why do wannabes want one so badly?
I think it is all part of that whole initiation thing, they get a NDN name and poof they are Ndn for a day!
Then they dress in there imitation moccasins and go to a powwow...
Eat some authentic ndn food: Ndn Tacos
Dance some intertribals pass out a few bucks


But when they go home they are still what they were before
hahaha
Not Ndn
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:25 PM   #102
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I agree with Josiah. That's just it, for the day. We have alot of people around here who we say that they are "weekend Indians", although pow wow's are nice and fun to go to, that is not all there is to life. I live mine in the way that I was taught by my family and I live it every day no matter who is around or what is going on. So many times I have heard someone say "Oh, we are going to take the weekend off from being Indian." Or "I need a break from the Indian thing." What does that mean? I have heard this more then once from several people. Me and a friend of mine just look at each other and ask "How do you do that?" We have no clue on this one. We are who we are and live what we live daily, not just at a Pow Wow.
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:43 PM   #103
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my favorite self given "indian" name was from a new agey type years ago...long hippie skirt,dripping with silver and turquoise jewelery,long blonde curly hair and that new age voice...walked up and handed me a business card with her "name" on it "Crystal Rainbow Hawk"
American Indian

it was all i could do to keep from lmao.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:33 PM   #104
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This Is Sicking!!!

Newspaper accounts from 1982 show Webber left Oatman after pleading guilty to lewd and lascivious acts with two 5-year-old girls, a charge which for which he received a one-year sentence

El Paso Times - Tribe accused in immigration scheme has tumultuous history
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:37 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillet View Post
my favorite self given "indian" name was from a new agey type years ago...long hippie skirt,dripping with silver and turquoise jewelery,long blonde curly hair and that new age voice...walked up and handed me a business card with her "name" on it "Crystal Rainbow Hawk"
American Indian

it was all i could do to keep from lmao.
ROTFLMAO skillet...another so called ndn name Grandma Coyote....dang she's been conning people for 35 plus years ....sad...notice her name "coyote" means trickster in some tribes LMAO..talk about a proper name for her gawwwww..........
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:46 PM   #106
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Drivers pay for "Native American" status to skip car taxes, registration

Drivers pay for "Native American" status to skip car taxes, registration

Aug 24, 2007 10:08 AM CDT

Little Shell Pembina

WIStv.com Columbia, SC: Drivers pay for "Native American" status to skip car taxes, registration
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:53 PM   #107
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northern cherokee nation of old louisana territory

YOU DECIDE LOL...

Northern Cherokee Nation of Old Louisana Territory
headquarters in Columbia Missouri...ran by "chief" Beverly Baker Northup..she has managed to get branches in SE missouri and kansas and Oklahoma...hmmm

THE STATE SENATE
Thursday, March 2, 2006

Senate Bill No. 2021
As Amended

21. Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory License Plate - such plates shall be designed and issued to persons wishing to demonstrate support or affiliation with the Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory;


http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=12&gl=us
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:51 PM   #108
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Skillet---I know exactly what you are saying. A year ago a nice older couple walked up to me and started talking about this so called "Cherokee" Tribe and that he was a chief and so was his son (they were nice enough---but not too quick on the up take--if you know what I mean). He proceeded to tell me what his "Indian" name was and his wife was so proud that she "got to give it to him". It was "Horse (something)". I called my Uncle on the rez and told him about it, he said: "more like horses A**" and started laughing. My family always tells me that your Indian name is between you, your family and the creator and you don't need to go around telling everyone what it is.

Kat---that's just nuts. So many people think that that's the way that it is---freeby's, there's no such thing. This is crazy. We have alot of people like that here. And there are alot of people who are going around claiming to be more then what they are, why not be just simply who you are? A human being trying to live your life to the best of your abilities. I have told a few people "How can I honor someone else's ancestor's before I honor my own?" To say that your ancestor was someone that they weren't is insulting to that ancestor and leaves a person very empty inside. Like a turtle shell with no turtle inside. I have seen and met people who for years said that they weren't Indian or had no Indian background and then all of a sudden they are member's of this tribe or that one and "Spiritual Leaders". Give me a break, I've known all my life who I am and that's just the way that it is, for good or bad. I'm no better then anyone else.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:11 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Northofada--I think that they believe that it will make them more authentic.
Agreed. Cause we all know how authentic Shinning crystal breeze (and other crap) sound ... ROFL.
Just had to say it.

My question is, how come 50% of these names include the word crystal?

Anyway good discussion. Also agree with why they need a brown Indian to help them with their fraud.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:49 AM   #110
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Oh, I know about what you are talking about about the crystals. I haven't heard that name as much as I have heard about people saying that they carry this crystal or that one. My eyes just get real big and I just turn around.

I just faced someone like that a few weeks ago. A woman who thought that she was all that and went after a native woman. I headed over my table at her. I'm not a violent person at all, but when a very very light skinned woman (white) with blonde hair says that a dark skinned woman who is a Tribal member is NOT native, my hair stands up on the top of my head and I started over the table at her, I was actually going to hit her, then a man jumped in and broke it up. What was funny was that I was talking with another man about it and he used the term "crystal licker", I about died laughing because my family call people like what he's saying "crystal twinkies"--I can't help but laugh at that term. It's so funny. I got the biggest chuckle out of it.

Now, my family is picking on me. My one Uncle called me from the rez. last week and told me not to go beating up on "those" women and then just the other day his son called and asked me who I'm beating up this week. I told him that I was behaving myself and staying away from people like that for a while.LOL
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:07 AM   #111
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Treaty with the Cherokee, 1828

Most of these Nothern Cherokee of old louisanna territory, the chicmychunga of Missouri and Arkanasas and other Cherokees group started are all going by the history of 1817-1819 Trearties BUT they forget that Missouri and Arkansas have another Treaty that expel these Cherokee groups from both states...I writing this cause most of these bogus (22 of them) groups in Missouri are claiming the same history until it gets to the truth...look below lol....


TNGenNet Inc. Indian Land Cessions Maps and Treaties in Tennessee. Indian Treaty Maps. Treaty with the Western Cherokee, 1828.

Treaty with the Cherokee, 1828
May 6, 1828 | 7 Stat., 311 | Proclamation, May 28, 1828

Indian Affairs: Laws and Treaties. Vol. II (Treaties)
Compiled and edited by Charles J. Kappler
Washington : Government Printing Office, 1904
[Pages 288-292]

ART. 1. The Western boundary of Arkansas shall be, and the same is, hereby defined, viz: A line shall be run, commencing on Red River, at the point where the Eastern Choctaw line strikes said River, and run due North with said line to the River Arkansas, thence in a direct line to the South West corner of Missouri.

ART. 2. The United States agree to possess the Cherokees, and to guarantee it to them forever, and that guarantee is hereby solemnly pledged, of seven millions of acres of land, to be bounded as follows, viz: Commencing at that point on Arkansas River where the Eastern Choctaw boundary line strikes said River, and running thence with the Western line of Arkansas, as defined in the foregoing article, to the South-West corner of Missouri, and thence with the Western boundary line of Missouri till it crosses the waters of Neasho, generally called Grand River, thence due West to a point from which a due South course will strike the present North West corner of Arkansas Territory, thence continuing due South, on and with the present Western boundary line of the Territory to the main branch of Arkansas River, thence down said River to its junction with the Canadian River, and thence up and between the said Rivers Arkansas and Cana-

[Page 289]

dian, to a point at which a line running North and South from River to River, will give the aforesaid seven millions of acres. In addition to the seven millions of acres thus provided for, and bounded, the United States further guarantee to the Cherokee Nation a perpetual outlet, West, and a free and unmolested use of all the Country lying West of the Western boundary of the above described limits, and as far West as the sovereignty of the United States, and their right of soil extend.

ART. 3. The United States agree to have the lines of the above cession run without delay, say not later than the first of October next, and to remove, immediately after the running of the Eastern line from the Arkansas River to the South-West corner of Missouri, all white persons from the West to the East of said line, and also all others, should there be any there, who may be unacceptable to the Cherokees, so that no obstacles arising out of the presence of a white population, or a population of any other sort, shall exist to annoy the Cherokees- and also to keep all such from the West of said line in future.
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:19 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiowakat View Post
Most of these Nothern Cherokee of old louisanna territory, the chicmychunga of Missouri and Arkanasas and other Cherokees group started are all going by the history of 1817-1819 Trearties BUT they forget that Missouri and Arkansas have another Treaty that expel these Cherokee groups from both states...I writing this cause most of these bogus (22 of them) groups in Missouri are claiming the same history until it gets to the truth...look below lol....


TNGenNet Inc. Indian Land Cessions Maps and Treaties in Tennessee. Indian Treaty Maps. Treaty with the Western Cherokee, 1828.

Treaty with the Cherokee, 1828
May 6, 1828 | 7 Stat., 311 | Proclamation, May 28, 1828

Indian Affairs: Laws and Treaties. Vol. II (Treaties)
Compiled and edited by Charles J. Kappler
Washington : Government Printing Office, 1904
[Pages 288-292]

ART. 1. The Western boundary of Arkansas shall be, and the same is, hereby defined, viz: A line shall be run, commencing on Red River, at the point where the Eastern Choctaw line strikes said River, and run due North with said line to the River Arkansas, thence in a direct line to the South West corner of Missouri.

ART. 2. The United States agree to possess the Cherokees, and to guarantee it to them forever, and that guarantee is hereby solemnly pledged, of seven millions of acres of land, to be bounded as follows, viz: Commencing at that point on Arkansas River where the Eastern Choctaw boundary line strikes said River, and running thence with the Western line of Arkansas, as defined in the foregoing article, to the South-West corner of Missouri, and thence with the Western boundary line of Missouri till it crosses the waters of Neasho, generally called Grand River, thence due West to a point from which a due South course will strike the present North West corner of Arkansas Territory, thence continuing due South, on and with the present Western boundary line of the Territory to the main branch of Arkansas River, thence down said River to its junction with the Canadian River, and thence up and between the said Rivers Arkansas and Cana-

[Page 289]

dian, to a point at which a line running North and South from River to River, will give the aforesaid seven millions of acres. In addition to the seven millions of acres thus provided for, and bounded, the United States further guarantee to the Cherokee Nation a perpetual outlet, West, and a free and unmolested use of all the Country lying West of the Western boundary of the above described limits, and as far West as the sovereignty of the United States, and their right of soil extend.

ART. 3. The United States agree to have the lines of the above cession run without delay, say not later than the first of October next, and to remove, immediately after the running of the Eastern line from the Arkansas River to the South-West corner of Missouri, all white persons from the West to the East of said line, and also all others, should there be any there, who may be unacceptable to the Cherokees, so that no obstacles arising out of the presence of a white population, or a population of any other sort, shall exist to annoy the Cherokees- and also to keep all such from the West of said line in future.
I know
They also said that they were hiding out from the Trail of Tears in 1839
Lot of hiding out if you ask me
for 168 years
Wow
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:14 PM   #113
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I know
They also said that they were hiding out from the Trail of Tears in 1839
Lot of hiding out if you ask me
for 168 years
Wow
LMAO josiah I had one come yesterday to where I was demonstrating beading (it was public info) they came all the way from columbia or clinton Missouri (about 2-3 hour drive) just to argue that he was chicamunga of Missouri!! LOL he gave me that song and dance about them hiding in the mountains, they runt oft hahaha, I asked where was their documents, he said they burnt up in a public school a year ago LMAO..so thats why cherokee nation won't recognize them...first off if they were hiding then why are they hiding their documnets in a public school HAHAHA hmmm..
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:31 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by kiowakat View Post
LMAO josiah I had one come yesterday to where I was demonstrating beading (it was public info) they came all the way from columbia or clinton Missouri (about 2-3 hour drive) just to argue that he was chicamunga of Missouri!! LOL he gave me that song and dance about them hiding in the mountains, they runt oft hahaha, I asked where was their documents, he said they burnt up in a public school a year ago LMAO..so thats why cherokee nation won't recognize them...first off if they were hiding then why are they hiding their documnets in a public school HAHAHA hmmm..
I know that is where I would hide those kind of documents!!!

I just know that there may have been some truth to a few actual Cherokees that had escaped...
But over the years that grew to hundreds of thousands
that now claim that they were hiding out..
So why now do they come out of the wood work?
Why not in 1930? a mere hundred years later
or 1900? just 70 years later
Why now do these people come out of "hiding"
In 1961 the year I was born there were only two tribes of Cherokees.

But now there are over 200 tribes that claim some heritage to the Cherokee Nation
We are talking over 500000 people!!!

Holy crap

Now here is the real deal...

It would be in the best interest of the Cherokee Nation to get as many as possible to be a Cherokee!
Think about it
If the tribe could swell to 500000 that means more federal funding!!!
And here is the kicker
Alot of these people actually live far from the Cherokee Nation and would never use the benefits the Federal aid would bring...
I mean come on! The Tribe allows people now with the slightest tiniest drop of Ndn blood into the tribe right now!

So if all of this were true

Then why can't these people get in???

Because they are not Cherokee

So then why continue the fight???
Well now one word comes to mind...

Casino


And if the Chief of any of these socalled tribes says anything different I would have to say he is not being honest in his response...
Better Known as a Lie!
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:44 PM   #115
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Sheesh - all this hiding in the mountains crap!

Where we these folks when being Indian wasn't "cool?"

And even now, if they are truly Cherokee, what are they CONTRIBUTING to their people? Too many seem to just be in it for what they can GET!
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:49 AM   #116
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I agree with you about why these groups keep coming up. They are so stupid, in my opinion. Why not just try to find what's real? Not try to fit your life into history? The trueth is what will make a difference in a person's life. I am living proof of some of that (the trueth that is, not the fake "tribes").

I meet people all the time of this "secret" Cherokee Tribe or that "secret" Cherokee tribe. When they tell me that, I just say "It's not a secret anymore" and I turn to laugh, not in their faces. Some of these people really beleive the stories that they are telling others. One of them actually (hold on to your seats---this is funny) walked up to a friend of mine from Cherokee, NC (he was born and raised there) and informed him that she was his cousin. And then was telling me that she had talked to her "cousin" from Cherokee and I said "Oh really?" and I played stupid (I had figured who she was talking about, but I didn't want to go there) and then I nicely said "well, that gentleman over there (so and so) is from Cherokee." And she said "Yeah, I know. That's my cousin". I have known this man for several years and know many of his family and I had never seen her near him. I almost fell over, I couldn't hold the surprise or the laughter back for very long. Later I talked to the mans wife and she knew nothing about it, when she asked him--he confirmed that this woman had walked up to him and told him that he was her cousin and said that he just walked away. They are getting more and more brassy, seriously.

There are many reasons why some didn't register for Enrollement. I know of one that is not Cherokee. I have a very good friend of mine who's Kiowa and she is enrolled, but her own cousin (I was there when she realized that they were close cousins) isn't enrolled. He tells a story about how his grandfather felt about enrollement and that's one of several reasons that he is not enrolled. But everyone knows who he is and who his father is.
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:10 AM   #117
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Another story about some of these. Yes, you guys are right about alot of people wanting the "casino" stuff. I was with the Indian center helping them to do this Ethnic Health fair at a mall one day. A gentleman walked up to the man who runs the youth program (I am a Mentor in this program and have been for many years---I love the kids and working with them--I'm just a volunteer, nothing special). The kids were there to do a demonstration on Indian dances and different styles, it's great when they do this, we have so much fun. Anyway, the gentleman approaches and asks the man whose in charge of the youth group how he could go about starting a tribe in this state. I about fell over, my friends mouth dropped and he gasped. I walked away (yes, he yelled at me later for leaving him there--LOL), but the guy was saying that he wanted to do that JUST to be able to get a casino started in the town that he lived in. I could've fliped.

Josiah, yes, I'm sure too that there were many who ran or departed the trip during the trail of tears. But, I agree, there weren't all that many to have that many people stating what they are saying. Many died. I know my Aunts and Uncles who went on the trail lost their whole family. One left NC or TN (I believe that they were living in TN at the time they were removed) with a family of 5 and only 1 made it to OK. This was NOT my (distant) grandparent's--but their siblings. I have looked into some of that. There is a way to fix some of this and I am working on it. I have been talking with some people and learning what I can about the people (I'm not into the politics, but am glad when other's are). The process will take time and resources, I have the time, but not the resources---yet---again, I am working on that as well. I have talked with some friends and they think it can work and will narrow down most of this mess. There is no way to clean it all up, but we can clean up a good bit of it.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:42 AM   #118
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TT they have to have their tokens ndns, and that doesn't help either...

Josiah I'm just talking and posting Missouri right now can you imagine its like this in every state, they out number us......

I was thinking I should of told that guy to go back and hide in the mountains.....but I didn't LOL.......
he also said (this guy that confronted me the other day) "I don't what your cheese" I said "its not my cheese...but notcho cheese either" dang why do they always say, "well we don't want your commods, or education etc.." but yet they file for intent to get recognition?......
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:50 PM   #119
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KK--I do agree that they do need their "tokens". This is what makes things hard for everyone. There are some who won't have anything to do with it, there are other's who eat it up like candy and it makes a big mess out of things, and then there are other's who say that they don't want any part of things like that and then they get sucked in (sometimes without knowing until it's too late and the damage is done). I have seen many of these. Shoot, you know my little history and some of these groups come after me to hook up with some of my family on the rez, I won't have any part of that and I tell them "no, thank you". And I tell my family that as well, they know that I won't do that to them. But we are seen together when we go to pow wow's and then some idiot gets this idea to make "friends" with me and that would be their way in, nope wrong answer. I have no way into anything. I am just who I am and my family is just who they are and we take care of each other, that's what it's all about. Not the hype and ego crazy.
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Old 08-28-2007, 01:09 AM   #120
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I have a problem with the new agers wannabeeeez telling me about their gggggggrandmother who was a Cherokee Princess. But, I want to defend some families who are truly NDN but can't be enrolled. I have known of families with Aunts/Uncles or Cousins (full family) and they can't enroll because Grandma/Grandpa didn't want or just didn't. Since the Dawes Roll was closed no one outside of these rolls were not able to enroll. Another reason mwy have been that the person enrolling may have lived outsied of the district. Ther were many reasons why a person wasn't enrolled.

Now many unenrolled Cherokee descendents are coming out of the woodwork because the laws in MO were changed in the late 1970's. It is no longer illegal for us to live in and own property in MO.

I have a gg...grandfather who signed the 1895 Cherokee Constitution of Moberly MO along with many notable Cherokees such as RedBird Smith who was also of relations just on another side of the family. I have tried to study about some of these Cherokees who aren't enrolled Cherokee. I found out that some of these groups(families) went to Iowa, Texas, Mexico, California, and even Origon not to mention the Cherokee strip and areas inside of OK. Then How about the Family groups who hid out in the Appalacian mountains, Hills of Tennessee, and Kentucky etc. Didn't these people finally get recognised as Cherokees by the Feds? I think that the Cherokees were able to assymilate well enough into any local society to be accepted, yet stay Cherokee. We have been so prolific and wide spread that many other Tribal members just can't understand and don't seem to want to accept the fact that there are actually more Cherokee descendants than in any other Tribe. We are able to intermarry and infiltrate other societies to create a greater and more numerous Tribal membership. And able to servive the tribulations of history.

How many of us are intermarried and/or descended of other Tribes? I know that I am descended of several different Tribes. I have been told of trials and tribulations within my family and other family.
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