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Old 05-22-2010, 01:55 AM   #101
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Question Again I ask am I wrong for feeling as I do?

I have stated both here and on other theads I am searching for me. The NDN way calls me but my mother has tried to deny and NDN blood or heratiage when it can be proven otherwise. I respect a elder as long as they do not prove that the truth is not their way ! At that point I must turn my search in a different direction . Again I ask am I wrong for feeling as I do about the feather ? Am I looking in the wrong place for what I am trying to find ? As I stated earlier if I find a feather that has molted or came from an injured Eagal to be gifted if either I or some one of my blood tried their best for the Bird . My son and the Vetinary Game Warden tried to save the Eagal and my son will carry marks from this to his grave , yet he said , " If it were to do over and knowing what I know now I would have to try again to save the Eagal ." So I ask are we wrong?
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:30 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Oldernighthawk View Post
So I ask are we wrong?
yes, you are wrong. do what you want and keep your found eagle feather and keep it hidden.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:13 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Oldernighthawk View Post
I have stated both here and on other theads I am searching for me. The NDN way calls me but my mother has tried to deny and NDN blood or heratiage when it can be proven otherwise. I respect a elder as long as they do not prove that the truth is not their way ! At that point I must turn my search in a different direction . Again I ask am I wrong for feeling as I do about the feather ? Am I looking in the wrong place for what I am trying to find ? As I stated earlier if I find a feather that has molted or came from an injured Eagal to be gifted if either I or some one of my blood tried their best for the Bird . My son and the Vetinary Game Warden tried to save the Eagal and my son will carry marks from this to his grave , yet he said , " If it were to do over and knowing what I know now I would have to try again to save the Eagal ." So I ask are we wrong?
Boozhoo niji,

First off I scanned the thread and could not find your original post so I am basing my reply on this one. It sounds like you found an injured eagle, tried to save it, and it died.

First off, your intentions are noble. I really hate seeing our most sacred of birds shot, zapped, poisoned and by any other means killed for whatever reason people may have in grievance of them. These methods are very effective and rarely reversible since life is fragile. I feel like for every bird we loose another piece of our world dies. Yet you tried.

It is not for me to judge if you are worthy to possess eagle feathers or parts or not. But if you have to ask whether or not you are then in your heart there is doubt that you are. When I went on fast I asked the elder that took me out about this, who has the right to carry a feather as given by the Creator, not some white man's law. He told me, that if you find one on the ground, and receive it in a good way, you know, give tobacco before you pick it up, then you are allowed to use that feather in a good way. That means, either dancing with it or praying, etc. Or you can give it to someone who YOU feel worthy of carrying it, then it becomes their responsibility to carry it in a good way.

These feathers can be taken if not carried in a good way, such as if a man is dancing and he drops a feather. It is up to the warrior/holy man that picks the feather back up to determine whether or not the dancer is worthy to continue carrying it. Or if the man is wearing the feather and drinking alcohol then he is deemed not worthy.

So do you carry yourself in a good way? Do you have a reason for possessing them? Do you need them for conducting ceremony? If you answer no to all of those, then you should give the bird up so that some of those people that are waiting for feathers can get them.

Derek
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:25 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
The point being, it was passed. Willingly. For spoils.



Because now, after making such a foolish decision to begin with, based in spoils, you're running out of it.

Really, am I the only person seeing this?

Do you not know your own history or are you just unwilling to logically scrutinize it?



Because their spoils are based in being a reservation lapdog, tied to their "yard," and quantum isn't a determinative factor.
OK niji, You are absolutely right. Yes our people did sign that treaty, because the government promised to help our people that were starving and dieing of illness. They denied our people their right to live in they way that they had for thousands of years, and when that was taken away, they knew of no other way. And back then people were not hiring a lot of ndns. So what do you think? Here comes the great white man holding out his hand to help. Here... take this food, learn our ways and cast aside your old ways and language. Sign this paper saying you will do all these things and we will help you. Of course our people did it.

That said...

The old ways are not completely gone, and they certainly are not forgotten. One trip up to Nacatchewaynin first nation reserve will prove that. The people there still live the old ways. I have seen the big drum ceremonies there, the passing of a drum from one generation to the next. The old ways are very much still alive. And I will learn what I can, so that I can pass them on, and they will still live.

The earth and manitous are very much alive and older than any of us, and they will continue to live on forever even if we forget our way. But if we do forget, then life with them will be much harder.
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:27 PM   #105
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Thank you crazywolf

I have prayed and gone over what others have said and that you have brought more clarity to . The eagle had been wraped to send in when the lone feather was found . and the game warden who had been working to try to save the eagle stated " You or yours must be intended to have this as it has no blood or blemish on it ." After learning about the government hack and their decision I needed an answer that I could under stand . In Nam I lost several friends by obeying orders and have had to live with that , and found that when at my worst after receiving the feather could pick it up and feel a sience of healing that I have found no where else . To me the feather has all ways ment honor and thus was to be so treated !
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mato Winyan View Post
Fight focuses on who can use eagle feathers
SALT LAKE CITY — A battle is brewing over the rights of white people
who practice American Indian religion to use federally restricted
eagle feathers in ceremonies.
...
But two non-Indian Utah residents, Raymond Hardman and Samuel Ray
Wilgus Jr., claim they have a religious right to use the feathers in
sacramental activities. The federal laws allow enrolled tribal
members to get a permit to possess eagle feathers and parts.
...
Both appealed, and the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver
eventually sent their cases back to Utah to determine whether the
restrictions violated the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The act
holds that religious practices must be accommodated unless a
compelling governmental interest can be demonstrated. Decisions in
the cases are pending.
I searced a little bit on Internet in hope of getting more news about this story, but did not like what I found.
Quote:
McClatchy-Tribune Regional News (USA) - February 18, 2009

Judge backs Utah men in feather possession cases: Religious freedom ? The two each have Native American ties, but are not members of federally recognized tribes.
Feb. 18 A judge ruled Tuesday that a federal ban on the possession of eagle feathers by non-Indians is too restrictive, a victory for two Utah men who have fought for a decade to use the feathers as part of their practice of Native American religion.The decision could lead to the return of feathers to the men, who are not federally recognized tribal members, and open the door for others like them to apply to get the feathers, according to attorney Joseph Orifici."The...
(You have to pay in order to read the whole article!)

If you want to confirm it, open this site:
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives and search for
Quote:
eagle feathers by non-Indians
. Limit the search to 2009.

Here are some more background on this story:
- http://www.nativereligion.org/case_s...?profile=74327
- http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/archive/80062872.html
- http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/ho.../57700712.html
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:53 PM   #107
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If only I were a real Native American

You know I have seen people spend a lot of money on Native American arts and crafts, follow a version of the religion as much as books and tv can deliver but at the end of the day, your an Indian or your not. Period. Saying your 1/64th Cherokee doesn't give you the right to claim anything. My Great Grandmother was named "Granny two mules" because that was what she was bought for. That doesn't give me the right to claim Eagle feathers. I'm white. It's not about religion. It's about birthright. period. Religion hasn't got **** to do with it. "Religion" is a card played way too often, and usually a means to an end for what the "Religion" originally stood for. You can follow any religion you choose but, that doesn't give anyone the right to butt into secrets not meant for you. Eagle feathers are not religious artifacts. They are part of a society that if your not already in, there is a reason. The United States is by definition an occupied territory. There were a Native people here. They had a way of life that was uniquely their own. Period. If you do not have a roll number, If you do not live on, or have the right to live on, a reservation. You have no right to those feathers. Period. Everybody want's to be an Indian to get away from rampant technology, to return to nature, to re-connect with the earth, that's cool, but it doesn't make you a Native American. The courts should have no say in this. Only the Tribal Elders, and their ruling should stand. Period
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #108
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Thumbs up

Here is the latest story about a court fight over eagle feathers he lost his case in court go to http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51...rican.html.csp
I'am glad he lost in court. My indian friend tried to give me a eagle feather to and I turned it down because i'am not indian here.
Here is a anther story I found about eagle feathers go to http://www.nativetimes.com/life/comm...-hundred-years for more info. I kinda found really degrading the lakota people called the white person a arrogant white man. that a slam to me too.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:04 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by timberghost View Post
...If you do not have a roll number, If you do not live on, or have the right to live on, a reservation. You have no right to those feathers. Period.
Yawn.

You're just lucky I didn't see this on a day I felt like typing.

What crap.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:50 AM   #110
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I read the opening OP and I must agree that traditions must be abided by regardless of what some may say.
What else do we give up to the white culture? I understand not all white people or other cultures don't wake up in the morning and say....."gee, let's make a mockery of this tribe or that nation" Yet, it would appear we do have some that think this way. Listen, if NA's say the feathers of an Eagle are sacred to them and them only, why not respect the wishes of that culture and leave well enough alone. The feathers of an eagle are as sacred to the NA as the American Flag is to most Americans. More over, I can see why some may "think" they now have a right to wear or display them as part of a head piece for example because they have married into a NA family. I can see that, but disagree with it. I am only part NA and I have enough self respect for my culture that I would never put myself in a position where I "think" I can do as I please, when in fact, it must be earned and approved. Especially by elders and tribal leaders. The feathers of an eagle are truly sacred and I strongly believe no one should possess them unless they have a reason. Especially if it involves ceremonial dancing and tribal events.


I wonder if anyone has asked an eagle what they think? Anyone who knows anything about these majestic and beautiful creatures, knows that they are very powerful spiritual creatures which hold a very special place among all NA's. I say they should only be worn by those that have earned them and then only for tribal events............
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:33 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Pete walkswithhorse View Post
I say they should only be worn by those that have earned them and then only for tribal events............
1. Who would that be?
2. What tribe(s)?
3. What events?
4. Who decides?
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:24 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Yawn.

You're just lucky I didn't see this on a day I felt like typing.

What crap.
So whats your beef with what I wrote? It's not about religious freedom it's about Native American rights. A line has to be drawn somewhere or it's inclusive of everyone and that's not the case. Not everyone who want's, should have. The only proof of dominate Native American blood is to have the blood strong enough to have a roll number. Anything less is just a wannabe.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:00 PM   #113
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The only proof of dominate Native American blood is to have the blood strong enough to have a roll number. Anything less is just a wannabe.
Your head is so far up your posterior that I would pass out trying to address you.

Besides, only "wannabes" share your position. (All you've done is out yourself.)

Frankly, you're not worth my time.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:18 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Your head is so far up your posterior that I would pass out trying to address you.

Besides, only "wannabes" share your position. (All you've done is out yourself.)

Frankly, you're not worth my time.
Only wannabees share my position? Do you have a roll number? do you live on a sanctioned rez? I'm thinkin probly not. your the biggest wannabe on the site otherwise you wouldn't be trying to justify access to something denied. If I'm not worth your time why did you respond.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:21 PM   #115
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Only wannabees share my position? Do you have a roll number? do you live on a sanctioned rez? I'm thinkin probly not. your the biggest wannabe on the site otherwise you wouldn't be trying to justify access to something denied. If I'm not worth your time why did you respond.
In hopes you'd continue to make a fool of yourself.

It worked.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:15 PM   #116
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@Zeke is not a wannabe.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:34 AM   #117
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@Zeke is not a wannabe.
i concur
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:11 AM   #118
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Only wannabees share my position? Do you have a roll number? do you live on a sanctioned rez? I'm thinkin probly not. your the biggest wannabe on the site otherwise you wouldn't be trying to justify access to something denied. If I'm not worth your time why did you respond.
Zeke is enrolled. Zeke has his eagle feathers.
He also has an education !

I don't see that he's trying to justify access to anything.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:19 AM   #119
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In hopes you'd continue to make a fool of yourself.

It worked.
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