Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues FSU Seminoles? FSU Seminoles?

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-03-2006, 11:53 AM   #1
Webmaster
 
Paul G's Avatar
 
Items PresentUser Name Style ChangeSteal PointsCake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Paul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond repute
Paul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 28,761
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 9,940.82
Savings: 0.00
FSU Seminoles?

What does everyone think of them keeping the Indian mascots. I've heard in the news that they have support from local tribes.

But how does this make you feel?

Paul G is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2006, 01:29 PM   #2
SNAGNOMETRY 101
 
1badazzndn's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: tha dirty south, and Powwow Country
Posts: 367
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I THINK HIM NEED BRUSH FOR TOOTHS!

Yeah thats pretty rediciulus. Even though their mascot dresses up "southeastern" style, the crowd reaction to an indian mascot is still the same. Matter of fact- they call their pep rallies-"powwows" just cute....syke!! There was or is a Native American Student Association over there. they put on a decent powwow too. If they are still around, they should have an awareness day on campus about the mascot issue- alot of people just fall into because of ignorance. They dont know that it may be offensive. It really helps when examples are shown of their race for example- have the washington crackers- have the mascot be a slave owner. then you could have then san diego mexicans- mascot comes out picking all kind of vegetables. or the texas blacks- where the crowd puts on big lips and black shoe polish and says yess masser!!!!
1badazzndn is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2006, 01:51 PM   #3
Great Uncle Patrick
 
between2worlds's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
between2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond repute
between2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond reputebetween2worlds has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Walker's Landing, WA
Posts: 2,821
Credits: 5,691.96
Savings: 1.00
Remember the flack over the "Frito Bandito" or the cartoon used for Sambo's Restaurants? Not every Latino or African American had a problem with those, but I could see how they were offensive.

Makes me nutz when they talk around here about how "The Redskins barely escaped with their hair" and they have taken to calling the fans Redskin Nations which grates like fingernails onna blackboard.

A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words. I have this one posted prominently in my office:



Offensive, yeah - I think so.
between2worlds is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2006, 05:48 PM   #4
Fat Singer
 
billyjoejimbob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: white guy land
Posts: 1,521
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I think CONTEMPTRADISH can enlighten us on the FSU predicament.

Where are you CONTEMPTRADISH!!!!!

Shine the traditional dancer light up into the clouds and call him.
__________________
There are 2 types of people in the world...
Really stupid people who think they are smart
and
Really smart people who think they are smart.
billyjoejimbob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2006, 06:37 PM   #5
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds
Remember the flack over the "Frito Bandito" or the cartoon used for Sambo's Restaurants? Not every Latino or African American had a problem with those, but I could see how they were offensive.

Makes me nutz when they talk around here about how "The Redskins barely escaped with their hair" and they have taken to calling the fans Redskin Nations which grates like fingernails onna blackboard.

A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words. I have this one posted prominently in my office:



Offensive, yeah - I think so.
Hey, I need a big one like that for my office.

I'm tired of it. It isn't appropriate any more. As a matter of fact, this one time our tribe went over with the UNITY youth group to meet with the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. It was kewl and what not and we got to meet with Senators, congressmen, whatever. That afternoon we all went into the food court at the Capitol building and all along the walls in the food court were pictures of players from the Washington Redskins wearin phony headdresses warpaint like that picture below. I told everyone in our crew "How the h*ll do you think that they are gonna take us all serious when they got bulls**t like this posted in the nation's capitol?"

Our stand is the same...who's listening though...maybe we should say it a little LOUDER!!
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2006, 11:09 PM   #6
crazywolf
 
crazywolf's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
crazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond reputecrazywolf has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Detroit Lakes, MN
Posts: 908
Blog Entries: 7
Credits: 338.47
Savings: 1.00
Boozhoo niji,

So they call their pep rallies pow wows eh? Thats pretty neat I guess, but what about the other teams, when they have their pep rallies.

This is a movie you all should watch, at least the first 15 mintues of it anyway. Its the Fast and the Furious, Tokyo Drift. Yeah its really cool with all the car crashes and races, but like I said, the first 15 minutes. They show scenes of a highschool, and within the school a pep rally. Their teams name is called the Ducks, I dunno the opposing team, but I guess they had a NDN as a mascot. They had an effigy fixed up like a pineata (sp) tied up on the end of a noose, complete with feathered headdress, and were beating it until the candy came out.

It happens no matter what the mascots are. When the testosterone flows and people gather together to rally up their teams, either pro leagues, college or amatuer, the mascots of the opposing team are going to take the beating. When the mascots are ndn related, they are gonna get beat on, and this kind of thing desensitises people to that kind of violence.

Derek
crazywolf is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-04-2006, 08:56 AM   #7
Where's the next dance?
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
stomp is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 102
Credits: 996.60
Savings: 0.00
Seminoles

" I've heard in the news that they have support from local tribes."




With Tallahassee being about 500 miles away from Miami, I wouldn't call them local.

I think there are some articles about the support and ok-ness from the Seminoles, and I think their honor guard comes and does the flag for graduation.

I think "mascot" comes from a word in Latin that means "pet".

Wish we could pass a law saying no human beings can be used as mascots.
__________________
Dance together.
stomp is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-06-2006, 01:01 PM   #8
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
Yeah, that would be a good law. Until then, if the FL Seminoles don't have a problem with it, why keep whining???

I think there are the few teams that have fans go overboard, beyond team spirit into the ridiculous. But on the flip side, there are those teams that have NDN mascots and have a little respect. A Colorado high school came up a few years ago and got the Arapaho tribes permission to continue using "Arapahoes" as their mascot.

And like I've said before, the reason they use NDNs as their mascot in the first place is that NDNs KICK BUTT!!!!! Always have, always will....nuff said...
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-06-2006, 07:29 PM   #9
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
This is a good article, especially about how some natives don't want to offend other natives by NOT opposing native mascots.

Here's the link to see the pics:http://www.reznetnews.org/news/060914_redmen/

Goodbye, Redmen

Photo credit: Eric W. Bolin
Daniel Flynn, a Cherokee student at Northeastern State University, says he opposes changing the school's nickname, Redmen. "I've never found it offensive," Flynn says.

By Eric W. Bolin

TAHLEQUAH, Okla.—Anger and opposition are building here in the capital of the Cherokee Nation over a local college’s announcement that it will soon drop “Redmen” as its longtime nickname.

Some of the resistance is coming from unlikely quarters—some of the very people expected to find Native American sports mascots “insensitive, disrespectful and offensive,” as Northeastern State University President Larry Williams put it in an open letter defending his decision to drop the Redmen nickname.

“I’ve grown up around here, I’ve been here my whole life,” said Daniel Flynn, Cherokee and a member of the Native American Students Association at NSU. “I’ve never found (the Redmen name) offensive, and I think there are bigger things to worry about.”

RELATED LINKS


Northeastern State University Web page

Suggest a new mascot

Letter from NSU President Larry Williams

In fact, the issue is so divisive on campus, including among some Native students, that the NSU Native American Students Association has yet to take an official stance supporting or opposing the name change.

“Most of us, I think, don’t want to change the name,” Flynn said, “but we feel like if we stood out and were hard-core about it, other Natives would kind of like shun us.”

An informal poll found 71 NSU students out of 100 opposed changing the name. Some alumni have threatened to stop donating to the university if it drops Redmen, and pro-Redmen signs are prevalent around Tahlequah, the Cherokee capital of Oklahoma. Cherokee Nation is headquartered here, and more than a quarter of the town’s population of nearly 15,000 people is Native American, U.S. Census figures show.

About 2,750 Native students attend NSU. They represent nearly 30 percent of the student body of 9,575, giving the school the distinction of having the largest number of Native American students at any public, four-year college in the country.

Williams announced in late May—after students had already left for summer break—that the state’s oldest educational institution would change its nickname in 2007.

Changing Without Any Pressure

But unlike some other universities that have faced similar controversies, NSU is changing its Native American nickname without any pressure from the National Collegiate Athletic Association to do so.

Last year, the NCAA moved to eliminate use of “hostile or abusive” nicknames at member universities by banning use of Native American mascots during postseason play. The ban took effect Feb. 1. But NSU was not on the NCAA’s list of 18 schools that faced the ban.

"I am quite confident that NSU has been responsible, respectful, and consistent in our usage of the name,” Williams in a campus-wide e-mail. “However, after listening to leaders within the American Indian community and hearing from many of our alumni, I have concluded that it is in the best interest of NSU to find a new mascot.”
Photo credit: Eric W. Bolin
A pro-Redmen sign stands tall on a lawn in Tahlequah, Okla., capital of the Cherokee Nation.

Many local Native leaders support the name change, including Cherokee Nation Tribal Chief Chad Smith. He was quoted in 2003 as saying that “portraying Native American people as mascots relegates us to second-class citizenship.”

But so far the stance by the Cherokee Nation’s leaders has yet to carry over to the NSU Native leaders.

“Our president is for the name change, but I know a lot of us are against it,” Flynn, the Cherokee student, said of the NSU Native American Students Association. “At the meeting we still hadn’t decided which way we were going to go as an organization.”

Showing a unified front is important, Flynn said. Regardless of the Native group’s decision, pro or con, all of its members will support it, he said.

Many members of the Tahlequah community have expressed their opposition to the proposed name change by putting up campaign-style signs in their front yards: “Re-Elect Redmen.”

Opposition also is coming from alumni, who’ve threatened to close their checkbooks to the university.

“Many alumni have stated to me that they will withdraw their financial support,” said Todd Hembree, member of the NSU Alumni Foundation and attorney for the Cherokee Nation.

Hembree, who opposes the name change, said he does not support stopping contributions to the university if it drops Redmen.

Hembree said he is in favor of a proposed resolution by the Northeastern State Student Government Association that would declare that students on campus disagree with the name change. In fact, Hembree said he wants to sponsor the resolution.

The university has established a committee of alumni, university heads, students and local Native American leaders to help pick the new NSU nickname.

“Our objective right now is to take all the suggestions and boil them down to around five, or a reasonable number close to that, and then let the community vote which ones, vote on who they think is best,” Neal Weaver, vice president for university relations, told the student newspaper, The Northeastern.

The committee plans to narrow potential nicknames to a handful by the end of September. When the final pool of possible names is released, anyone affiliated with the university is eligible to vote on the final choice.

The new nickname is expected to be announced in December, after which the university hopes to rally students, faculty and locals around the new logo and name.

The longstanding Redmen nickname has been a staple of NSU lore since 1924 when it replaced the Warriors. The mascots have changed throughout the years and recently have depicted a gorilla, a banana and currently Rowdy, a Muppet-like creature with yellow dreadlocks and green fur.

There is no one unifying logo for the university, said Weaver. NSU paraphernalia have several different insignia, including an NSU racetrack logo, the university clock tower and Rowdy.


Eric W. Bolin, Cherokee, attends Northeastern State University in Tahlequah, Okla. A 2004 graduate of the Freedom Forum’s American Indian Journalism Institute, Bolin has had two reporting internships at the Associated Press bureau in Sioux Fall, S.D.
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-11-2006, 07:40 PM   #10
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kituhwa has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 177
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Here's one of my articles on the Mascot Issue

Red Face' Does Not Honor Us
H. Mathew Barkhausen III, 24
Monday December 26, 2005
PRINT | EMAIL


Long gone are the days when extraordinarily racist “black-face” performers were taken seriously. Racism toward African Americans has not disappeared, but American society’s willingness to turn the other cheek when a group of people is being portrayed in a negative light is mostly gone. Except, of course, when it come to Native Americans.

Rather than widespread praise, when the NCAA announced recently that it would ban teams from using American Indian imagery in postseason tournaments, many in the media mocked its decision. According to the NCAA, beginning in February, any school with a nickname or logo considered racially or ethnically disparaging would be prohibited from using them in postseason events. Mascots will no longer perform at tournament games, and band members and cheerleaders will be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008. Major college football teams are not subject to the ban because there is no official NCAA tournament.

This decision has been credited to the continued pressure from Native American groups, including the Native American Journalists Association. A decade ago, the athletic community would have never even considered the issue. And it is still a hard pill to swallow for the rest of society. Corporations all over the United States use some sort of “Indian” name, and companies have logos and trademarks with “Indian” themes. From the ridiculous photos on the door of the trucks of the “Navajo” trucking company depicting a Native woman in stereotypical “Indian princess” garb, and for some bizarre reason, with deep blue eyes, to the “Indian princess” depicted on the “Land O Lakes” butter packages, stereotypical images of Native Americans are everywhere.

Tuscarora Yarns Inc., for example, has chosen to represent itself with a logo that is a stereotypical image of a Native American in a Northern Plains Indian eagle feather headdress, often misnamed a “war bonnet.” My grandfather is a full blood; he is Cherokee and Tuscarora and was born and raised in North Carolina, the traditional homeland of both these Native peoples. Knowing this, I educated myself about everything I could that related to both Nations. Tuscarora people did not wear this type of regalia; our traditional clothing and items of adornment were very different from that of the Lakota. I think Tuscarora Yarns has chosen this as its logo because their corporate branding will be recognizable as having an “Indian” association if they sell-out to the lowest common denominator.

One-dimensional representations of Native Americans are not only common, but are thought to be “no big deal” by most non-Native Americans. This apathetic attitude has spread to Indian Country, with many Native people unwilling to speak out against it for fear of being ridiculed. But the racist images used are not representative of Native American culture today, or at any time in the past. But people still argue, “What’s the big deal?”

A conservative talk show host named Bob Enyart has an interesting, and common, argument. He said, “Should the Houston Oilers apologize to oil companies for calling themselves ‘Oilers’ or should the New York Jets apologize to airline pilots and members of the Air Force for calling themselves ‘Jets?'” But such comparison arguments are absurd. “Oilers” are a profession, not an ethnic group, and “Jets” are objects with no feelings, no culture, nor heritage to protect. They can’t think or feel, but human beings can and do.

Often, as Native Americans, we are told by others: “The ’Redskins,’ I guess that’s kind of racist, but the ‘Indians.’ that’s not so bad.” True, the term “Redskin” historically is as derogatory and racist a word as "Nigger," or "Kike." But while it’s not really seen as a huge deal when a team calls itself the “Redskins,” no one would ever dream of calling one the “Kikes.” But both are known to be racist, so why is one okay? This attitude contributes to the poor self-image of Native American youths, which some academics argue that when combined with other social factors, can shed some light on why they have the highest drop out rates in high school, the lowest rates of young people enrolled in colleges or universities, and the highest rates of teen suicide in the entire country.

Sports teams aren’t the only culprits of the negative images of Natives in American society, just as negative imagery are not the sole reason that we face the problems that we do. But the NCAA’s decision is an important first step. And we must not stop pushing for more. We should place unrelenting pressure on all corporations to “cease and desist” defaming our cultures. One day, painting yourself in “red face” supposedly in “honor” of Native Americans will be seen as just as racist as the black face performers of the past.

Hopefully, this “future” will be during the present generation.
Kituhwa is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-11-2006, 07:43 PM   #11
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kituhwa has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 177
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Here's another version of the Red Face Article

'Red Face' Does Not Honor Us
Pacific News Service, H. Mathew Barkhausen III, Aug 17, 2005
A Native American applauds as an important first step the recent decision by the NCAA to prohibit Native motifs in postseason play.

DENVER--The debate over the use of Native American imagery by professional and collegiate sports teams has raged for decades. In the past, when Native people protested racist names and corrupted "Native" imagery being misappropriated as logos or mascots, the response from the athletic community ranged from confusion to anger. Some fans even had the audacity to claim that they were "honoring" us.

Fortunately, positive change appears to be on the horizon. The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) recently announced that it would ban teams from using American Indian imagery in postseason tournaments. Starting in February, any school with a nickname or logo considered racially or ethnically disparaging would be prohibited from using it in postseason events. Indian mascots will no longer perform at tournament games, and band members and cheerleaders will be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008.

The decision follows continued pressure from Native American groups, including the Native American Journalists Association. A decade ago, the athletic community would have never considered such a step. And it is still a hard pill to swallow for the rest of society.

Corporations all over the United States use "Indian" names, and companies have logos and trademarks with "Indian" themes. From the blue-eyed woman in "Indian Princess" garb on the door of the trucks of the "Navajo" trucking company to the "Indian princess" depicted on the Land 'O Lakes butter packages, stereotypical images of Native Americans are everywhere.

Many corporations add insult to injury by not only appropriating Native images and traditions, but scrambling them in the process. Tuscarora Yarns, for example, has chosen to represent itself with a logo that is a stereotypical image of a Native American in a Northern Plains Indian eagle feather headdress, often misnamed a "war bonnet." My grandfather --a full blood Cherokee and Tuscarora -- was born and raised in North Carolina, the traditional homeland of both these Native peoples. Knowing this, I educated myself about everything I could that related to both nations. Anyone else who took the trouble to do so would know that Tuscarora people did not wear this type of regalia.

Predictably, the NCAA decision has drawn the ire of conservative talk-radio commentators like Bob Enyart, who complained, "Should the Houston Oilers apologize to oil companies for calling themselves 'Oilers,' or should the New York Jets apologize to airline pilots and members of the Air Force for calling themselves 'Jets?'" But such arguments are absurd. "Oilers" are a profession, not an ethnic group, and "jets" are objects with no feelings, no culture, nor heritage to protect.

Even Florida Governor Jeb Bush has weighed in on the controversy, expressing his disappointment that Florida State will have to give up the name "Seminoles."

"How politically correct can you get?" the governor asked of those who fought for the change. "These people need to get out more."

The Native-as-logo issue is a symptom of a much larger problem. Every aspect of that which is Native American has been appropriated by the dominant society. For generations, the white man has interpreted who we are while ignoring our oral traditions and our own definitions of ourselves. Today, people still trust the word of a white anthropologist or archaeologist over the word of a traditional Native person.

Many of the most sacred objects in our spiritual traditions have been stolen, and continue to be housed in museums because the white man is supposedly more qualified to care for them than we are. The bones of thousands of our ancestors have suffered the same fate. All these things have been taken and reinterpreted through a skewed perspective that seeks to justify the atrocities committed against us on the road to "Manifest Destiny."

As a consequence, stereotypical interpretations of "Indians" continue to be propagated in racist literature, television and film. And when non-Natives take it upon themselves to learn about Natives, they must turn to thousands of books on the shelves written by non-Native people, about us.

No wonder, then, that when they see a Native American mascot, or thousands of screaming fans with red paint on their faces, they see nothing wrong. They don't see anything wrong with buying their children toys or Halloween costumes so that they can "play Indian" either.

The NCAA's decision to ban Native American team logos is an important first step, but we must not stop pushing for more. We should place unrelenting pressure on all of society to "cease and desist" defaming our cultures, so that one day, painting yourself in "red face" -- supposedly in "honor" of Native Americans -- will be seen as just as racist as the blackface performers used in the past.

Hopefully, this "future" will arrive during the present generation.

PNS contributor H. Mathew Barkhausen III, 25, is a writer for Seventh Native American Generation (SNAG). Contact SNAG at [email protected].
Kituhwa is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-11-2006, 08:38 PM   #12
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
Hey good articles. What are your views on Native teams having native mascots?
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-13-2006, 01:09 AM   #13
aadoo niyoh ch'idi
 
Jinekehane's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Jinekehane is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 66
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
frustration...

hhhrrrmm...I dont know about Native mascots, I mean I find them affensive but I dont think I would if they were portrayed differently. I hate it when I leave the rez and I get those stupid questions like "do you live in a Teepee?" do I look like I live in a teepee? yeah I hook my computer up to the generater outside my teepee. I find it offensive when people comment on things they know nothing about. The mascots would not anger me so if they were not running around in the stereotypical clothes. GGGRRRRRR

has anyone gotten into an argument with someone that was not native american about the roles of the women and native tradition in its all?
Jinekehane is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-16-2006, 02:39 AM   #14
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kituhwa has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 177
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Hi Rose

Glad you liked the articles, thanks for the compliment. As for when the teams are made up of Natives themselves and have a name or Native mascot...it all depends.

If the team's name and identity comes from a traditional perspective and is being represented appropriately by both Native players and Native fans of the team themselves, then I see nothing wrong with it. The issue over Native mascots in the mainstream is that non-Native people don't understand our cultures and they misrepresent us and perpetuate negative stereotypes. In sports these stereotypes could be...

The notion that Indigenous people are somehow genetically prone to violence and agression (this is a very common misconception, look at the military for example) A great book on the racism towards Native people in the military is "Native American Veterans of the Vietnam War" In the book it demonstrates how people actually believe that just because someone is Native they are "born for" warfare, are "natural born killers" so to speak, that we supposedly possess genetic skills such as tracking and surviving in the wilderness. Nobody stops to think maybe tracking and hunting and surviving in the woods were "learned" skills. We are so often portrayed as "animalistic" in mainstream society, and the mascots of sports teams being no exception. The fans (non-native fans) are the WORST examples of the perpetuation of these very stereotypes...now getting back to if the team is made up of Natives like, say on the rez.

Like I said, if its a name and an identity coming from a traditional perspective and being represented appropriately and respectfully by OUR people THEMSELVES, and not by others, then its okay. However, if the team has chosen one of those identities that we see in the mainstream non-Native sports arena, all they end up doing is becoming charicatures of themselves, they buy into the stereotypes and end up looking quite foolish in the process. Its very sad and frustrating when the only motivation for doing so is economic profit. And unfortunately that is most often the case. "Sure we'll totally sell-out our peole and culture as long we make some money in the process." The attempt is to justify this by arguing that the money will go toward positive endeavors like education, or housing, etc. To me, turning ourselves in mascots for the Red Face minstrel shows of the 21st century isn't worth it. No ammount of money should be worth our dignitiy.
Kituhwa is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-16-2006, 02:48 AM   #15
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kituhwa has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 177
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Jinekehane

Jinekehane

I totally understand your frustration with people's ignorance about our culture. I have been repeatedly asked things like "Hey man, what's in the peace pipe?" or "Can you score me some peyote?" Then you get the strange hippie types asking you what their "totem" or "spirit animal" should be. The problem with the mascots is that it is non-Native people "attempting" to represent us. Non-Native people will never succeed at representing Native people in a manner such as that, no matter even if they tried to be "respectful". Think of it this way, Blacks would find it extraordinarily offensive if someone who knew nothing about their culture were to attempt to "dress" and "act" Black in an attempt to represent them and then claim they were doing it in their "honor". The black community would never stand for that, nor should we. Arguing with non-Natives about many things concerning our culture is commonplace for a lot of us, and the reason we have to continue arguing is because it is the "stereotype" or charicature of our people that is so deeply ingrained in the minds of the mainstream non-Native. And those responsible are teams with Native mascots, corporations who misuse and misrepresent our image, television shows, movies, and books that are supposed to be "about" our people, but all written by non-Natives from the perspective of an outside observer. I would encourage you to continue to try to educate people about our traditions, and though its hard to do, try to take into consideration how much "mis-education" is already out there.
Kituhwa is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-16-2006, 02:31 PM   #16
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
Yeah, it just depends. That says it all.
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-16-2006, 08:59 PM   #17
aadoo niyoh ch'idi
 
Jinekehane's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Jinekehane is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 66
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
thanks, that made me feel better. You made a good point if anyone every dressed up like a member of the black community, there would be some serious hell raising. why do you think it is so tolerated amongst the native community? perhaps since it has been going on for decades it is seen as acceptable by non-Indians.

I had the oppertunity to travel outside of the country, but since I was a minor I had to go with a group. It would have been alright but the person incharge told the rest of the kids they had to speak slowly for me because I didnt speak much english. This angered me and I had such a horrible time I went home early. Before I went though I had my culturally beleifs challenged and my language made a mochery of. I was very suprised how uneducated the non-Indians were about Native people, especially since we are the native people to this country and it is their government that is based on the Iroquios conferderacy.
__________________
??Aayooish K'ei chah??
Jinekehane is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-20-2006, 07:24 AM   #18
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kituhwa has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 177
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Hi there, I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties and negative experiences. It is hard to be a Native person in the face of all this ignorance, and that's what it ignorance. The world doesn't know about OUR contributions to the world, because its not in most history books, so WE are left with the responsibility to tell them.
Kituhwa is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery