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-   -   Are Hawaiians and Chamorous Native American..? (http://forums.powwows.com/f26/hawaiians-chamorous-native-american-67253/)

Ananse 03-02-2013 03:03 PM

Are Hawaiians and Chamorous Native American..?
 
I don't post here often, but I enjoy reading the forums! My apologies for asking a question without having yet introduced myself!

In your opinion, do you consider Hawaiians and Chamorous as Native Americans? This is a question that has been burning in my mind for quite some time. My ex husband is a full blood Chamorou from Rota, and during my time amongst him and his people it became quite clear to me that there are numerous cultural similarities. My own elders begged to differ and stressed that though they were Natives of their respective islands they still weren't our people.

Several of my Native peers, on the other hand, totally acknowledge them as being Native Americans. So, ime there seems to have been a generational shift in the approach as to whether they are or aren't Native American.

I guess I was just curious to see what other opinions on the subject were!

RestlessN8iv 03-03-2013 03:41 PM

As an admitted "culture vulture" of Polynesian heritage, (Not that I wear necklaces of Maori bone carvings, and flowered shirts or anything)I'd be hard pressed to give an unbiased opinion.

That said I'm not sure where to draw the line. Do we only consider someone an Indian if they originate to the continental Americas, or do we include the islanders as well? It's an interesting question.

Joe's Dad 03-06-2013 09:43 AM

Are these people near the Americas?

Chevy_truckin_NDN 03-06-2013 11:29 AM

buh. I consider myself an indigenous native american. If I had my choice, I would rather have been enrolled Hawaiian than Cheyenne.....







Just kidding.....bwahahahaha. I'm both. Just to make that clear. And yes, I do consider my self a Native American. but maybe you should ask Hawaiians how they feel? My other family from the islands consider themselves indigenous...so is that better than being native american? dunno myself. . . .

Chevy_truckin_NDN 03-06-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1559981)
Are these people near the Americas?

These people? :tounge_sm

delila77 03-06-2013 01:03 PM

thats a very mixed question. i know down south its like the old questions are mexicans native? in my family its a big time no. there are tribes out in us that formed a tribe after it being mixed with another race and with my family its same answer is they aint ndn. personally, i always go with who am i to judge. i consider myself to be open minded to an extent.seriously i would ask hawaiians, but you know some could say yes and some could say they aint. u might get a mixture of answers, but despite the answers at least they follow their traiditions and have a community. so its all good.

Itzhecatl 03-06-2013 03:20 PM

:thinking:I would say they are indigenous to their lands. Native American implies they have native ancestry in the Americas. There are tons of people who are indigenous but are just not native to these (N.America) lands.

My .02

AmigoKumeyaay 03-06-2013 03:25 PM

They are Natives of their Islands. Now, those islands are part of USA.

Chamorros of Guam were colonized by Spain in early 1500's and converted to catholicism...much like Native of California / southwest. (Most, not all)

After Spanish-American war of 1898, Guam was U.S. territory. Then during WWII they were invaded by Japan, with a brutal occupation until 1944.

U.S. Armed Forces landed on Guam, and the Japanese were dug-in with tough defenses.

The USMC Navajo Code Talkers were credited with the success in re-taking of Guam, keeping Japanese radio interceptors confused while U.S. forces out-witted the Japanese counter-attack, which was brutal and suicidal.

Okay, now it's Good Times, and Chamorro (Chamoru) culture is thriving!

March 23, 2013 in San Diego there will be Chamorro Cultural CHELU Festival,

Festival
Chamoro Cultural Fest

Celebrating the people of the Mariana Islands Hafa Adail! Ta Fanhita! Chamorro food, island crafts and info booths, cultural music, entertainment and workshops. A special event concert at 8pm. Opportunities to win an iPad and an Island trip.
Organization: Chelu

When: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM

Where: Market Creek Plaza, 310 Euclid Ave., San Diego, CA 92114


Information: www.chelusd.org
Cost: No details

Joe's Dad 03-06-2013 05:14 PM

Can they build a casino on their tribal land??? LOL. j/k

This topic makes for a good discussion. Are we talking 'political' Native Americans'? 'Ethnocentric' Native Americans? Do they want the same status as Federally Recognized tribes? If they do want federal recognition, should they receive it before the Lumbees and other 'indigenous to the land' tribes who are currently petitioning the government for Federal Recognition?

If they can't answer it in Washington, we can sure answer it on Powwows.com!!!


Zeke?

muskrat_skull 03-06-2013 07:36 PM

How do these people view themselves? Do they want to be "American Indians"?

Some peoples were called "Indians" but were not "American" Indians. So I think you can be Indian without being American Indian. Hawaiians are definitely Native American, can you be Native American without being American Indian? Is the a benefit to being American Indian vs. Native American, is there a club or do you get a keyring or something? Does it matter? I don't know.

I think from a dna perspective, Hawaiians should be considered American Indian if they want to be. I always consider them to be, all indigenous peoples of the Americas North and South.

If Guam was part of the US or Americas or is in some form or fashion, then probably yes to them, too. Not all of America was American through history, France, Spain and Britain all ruled parts. America as an entirety is fairly new. I'm not really up on geography.

Joe's Dad 03-06-2013 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy_truckin_NDN (Post 1559994)
These people? :tounge_sm

Was I supposed to say, 'those' people? :laughing:

:hello: Chevy!

Joe's Dad 03-06-2013 11:21 PM

This is from wikipedia:


Chamorro language
Main article: Chamorro language

The Chamorro language is included in the Malayo-Polynesian subgroup of the Austronesian family. Because Guam was colonized by Spain for over 300 years, many words derive from the Spanish language. The traditional Chamoru number system was replaced by Spanish numbers.[2] Chamoru is often spoken in many homes, but is becoming less common. However, there has been a resurgence of interest in reviving the language, and all public schools on both Guam and the The Northern Mariana Islands are now required by law to teach the Chamoru language as part of the elementary, middle, and high school curriculum.
Ancient Chamorros

The Chamorro are commonly believed to have come from Southeast Asia at around 2000 BC. They are most closely related to other Austronesian natives to the west in the Philippines and Taiwan, as well as the Carolines to the south. They were expert seafarers and skilled craftspeople familiar with intricate weaving and detailed pottery-making. The latte stone, a megalithic rock pillar topped with a hemispherical capstone, was used by ancient Chamorros as foundation for buildings and has since been appropriated as a "national" symbol. Chamoru society was based on what sociologist Dr. Lawrence J. Cunningham termed the "matrilineal avuncuclan", one characteristic of which is that the brother(s) of the female parent plays more of a "father" role than the actual biological male parent.[

Joe's Dad 03-06-2013 11:31 PM

I copied this from here: http://chamorrotribe.webs.com/

One of the most important things that we can garner as a Native American Tribe is true U.S. Citizenship. Right now, we are "Statutory Citizens", that means we received our citizenship through the passage of the Organic Act. The Organic Act is United States Code 48 Section 8A.

Unfortunately, Article 14 of the United States Constitution has never been amended to include citizenship of unincorporated territories. The United States Constitution states there are only two ways to become a United States Citizen, you are either born a citizen or you are naturalized. You cannot be naturalized as a Statutory Citizen. Only certain Amendments of the Constitution and those Amendments that the Supreme Court recognize as being Basic Human Rights apply to us.

The only true way for Guam and the Chamorro people to get United States true citizenship, which means full protection and full Constitutional rights, is either Guam becomes a State, which is not going to happen because we do not have the population base and we are too far from the contiguous 48 States.

The only other way for us to get Constitutional citizenship is to become registered as a native American tribe so that we as a people become incorporated to the United States and the Indian Naturalization Act would automatically Naturalize us, thereby, making us legal Constitutional Citizens of the United States and affording us all protections and rights under the Constitution of the United States and making us eligible for all types of benefits as well as giving us additional Constitutional rights, because Native Americans enjoy more Constitutional rights than regular Americans. Native Americans have the Constitutional right to discriminate based on race to protect their culture, heritage and race.

muskrat_skull 03-06-2013 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1560083)
I copied this from here: http://chamorrotribe.webs.com/

One of the most important things that we can garner as a Native American Tribe is true U.S. Citizenship. Right now, we are "Statutory Citizens", that means we received our citizenship through the passage of the Organic Act. The Organic Act is United States Code 48 Section 8A.

Unfortunately, Article 14 of the United States Constitution has never been amended to include citizenship of unincorporated territories. The United States Constitution states there are only two ways to become a United States Citizen, you are either born a citizen or you are naturalized. You cannot be naturalized as a Statutory Citizen. Only certain Amendments of the Constitution and those Amendments that the Supreme Court recognize as being Basic Human Rights apply to us.

The only true way for Guam and the Chamorro people to get United States true citizenship, which means full protection and full Constitutional rights, is either Guam becomes a State, which is not going to happen because we do not have the population base and we are too far from the contiguous 48 States.

The only other way for us to get Constitutional citizenship is to become registered as a native American tribe so that we as a people become incorporated to the United States and the Indian Naturalization Act would automatically Naturalize us, thereby, making us legal Constitutional Citizens of the United States and affording us all protections and rights under the Constitution of the United States and making us eligible for all types of benefits as well as giving us additional Constitutional rights, because Native Americans enjoy more Constitutional rights than regular Americans. Native Americans have the Constitutional right to discriminate based on race to protect their culture, heritage and race.

I thought you wrote that last part for a minute and were joking. I reread it and realized it was all a quote. I'm not sure what they mean by that because I don't know if by Native American they mean American Indians or Native born Americans.

Joe's Dad 03-07-2013 12:14 AM

The question should be, "What is a 'regular' American? And after 'regular' American is defined, is every other American 'irregular'???

muskrat_skull 03-07-2013 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1560091)
The question should be, "What is a 'regular' American? And after 'regular' American is defined, is every other American 'irregular'???

I think the irregular Americans are the ones you get from Big Lots. :thumbsup:

I like the "more Constitutional rights part"... doesn't the Constitution protect all Americans right to be racist (at least in speech)?

AmigoKumeyaay 03-07-2013 02:28 AM

Been a while since I lived on Guam. When I retire, a trip to Guam is on the bucket list.

The Guam people are now busy fighting about plans for their first casino. Strong local opposition.


Meanwhile, the island of Rota, just north of Guam, wants that gambling money and now has an outside company financing and building a new casino resort.

Sounds familiar?

Ananse 03-13-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1560048)
Can they build a casino on their tribal land??? LOL. j/k

This topic makes for a good discussion. Are we talking 'political' Native Americans'? 'Ethnocentric' Native Americans? Do they want the same status as Federally Recognized tribes? If they do want federal recognition, should they receive it before the Lumbees and other 'indigenous to the land' tribes who are currently petitioning the government for Federal Recognition?

If they can't answer it in Washington, we can sure answer it on Powwows.com!!!


Zeke?

Actually this is one of the reasons I wanted to see what opinions on the subject were! There was a brief period of time (I believe back in 2007) where the Chamorros aspired to officially be considered Native American. In the CNMI (Rota, Tinian, Saipan) they actually have their own versions of tribal enrollment and even have their own blood quantum system, where via proof of direct lineage to the specific island you are from gives you residential and farm land. Tinian has a casino, and Rota was pushing for one but, due to the prevalence of catholocism progress in this endeavor is slow, and who really knows if it will actually ever be completed.

One of the debates my ex and I used to often encounter revolved around his wanting to powwow as a Chamorou. It wasn't in the sense of mockery or anything of that nature, but he simply wanted to experience being around other Native people in the celebratory sense and wanted to represent himself as the proud Chamorro that he is (was, being that we are divorced now) and didn't see anything wrong with this picture because he considered himself to be "Native American" too. Which, at the time I thought would be inappropriate, but now as I am no longer living on the islands and am reconnecting with my own culture I find myself second guessing what I formerly thought as inappropriate. Part of me thinks it would be wonderful to let my daughter wear her Chamorou regalia at a powwow and dance alongside me.

Ananse 03-13-2013 04:15 PM

Thank you everyone for the replies, btw! It is a complete pleasure to read opinions on this!

blueberry111 03-14-2013 06:27 PM

I'd consider any "native" culture in the Americas as "indigenous American." Hawaii is a bit different from the Americas a way culturally (but is part of US)... For sake of clarity, I'd refer to them indigenous Hawaiian :smile: . Just like indigenous Australians, indigenous Mongolian, etc.


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