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Old 01-23-2012, 07:27 PM   #1
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Question I'm Stumped..Advice Please?

My entire life, I've been told that I'm 1/2 Choctow although my dad and mom aren't full-blooded. As far as I know, my paternal grandma might be 3/4 or 1/2 herself(my dad & Aunt are noticeably darker than their siblings)& it's been rumored that Quanah Parker's even an ancestor of ours(Parker's my maiden name). No Family tree has been documented that I know of, whenever I ask I get told different stories by family members, and no one really knows anything except that we have Choctaw heritage. When I was a teenager, my dad finally tells me that I do infact have NA title and that it's Shanaura(flower). I was so proud. Saturday, a woman named Walks With Turtles offered to take my 1yr old daughter into the circle for her first time on Sunday since by tradition I had to stay out of it. Another proud moment for me none the less. But saturday night, I asked my dad exactly why he chose Shanaura for me. Point blank he had a one night stand with a Choctaw woman(she claimed) and that Shanaura was her name and what it meant. He said that I was such a beautiful toddler that it seemed to fit. I was/am disapointed about this but don't know if I should be. I was never told about my heritage, nothing. I thought titles were given in a more respectful, meaningful way? Am I wrong? I've tried several times to find links to my family tree & my heritage, but no one seems to know enough details. I do know that my paternal grandma's maiden name was Gillan(it was thought that maybe alot of her people were Cherokee/Choctaw). But nothing was looked into. In short, I don't know who I am, I don't know what to tell my children, I plan to make a fancy shawl for me and my daughter and I want it to reflect our heritage. How can i? Thanks for any responses/advice.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:41 PM   #2
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Quannah Parker was Comanche.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanya2012 View Post
My entire life, I've been told that I'm 1/2 Choctow although my dad and mom aren't full-blooded. As far as I know, my paternal grandma might be 3/4 or 1/2 herself(my dad & Aunt are noticeably darker than their siblings)& it's been rumored that Quanah Parker's even an ancestor of ours(Parker's my maiden name). No Family tree has been documented that I know of, whenever I ask I get told different stories by family members, and no one really knows anything except that we have Choctaw heritage. When I was a teenager, my dad finally tells me that I do infact have NA title and that it's Shanaura(flower). I was so proud. Saturday, a woman named Walks With Turtles offered to take my 1yr old daughter into the circle for her first time on Sunday since by tradition I had to stay out of it. Another proud moment for me none the less. But saturday night, I asked my dad exactly why he chose Shanaura for me. Point blank he had a one night stand with a Choctaw woman(she claimed) and that Shanaura was her name and what it meant. He said that I was such a beautiful toddler that it seemed to fit. I was/am disapointed about this but don't know if I should be. I was never told about my heritage, nothing. I thought titles were given in a more respectful, meaningful way? Am I wrong? I've tried several times to find links to my family tree & my heritage, but no one seems to know enough details. I do know that my paternal grandma's maiden name was Gillan(it was thought that maybe alot of her people were Cherokee/Choctaw). But nothing was looked into. In short, I don't know who I am, I don't know what to tell my children, I plan to make a fancy shawl for me and my daughter and I want it to reflect our heritage. How can i? Thanks for any responses/advice.
As most genealogical researchers will tell you, start with what you know.. yourself.

Get your long form birth certificate, then your parent's marriage and birth certificates and work backwards from there. Long form birth certificates will have your vital statistics but also those of your parents. Their long form certificates will have their parent's names.

Once you have the names of your direct line, you can then explore the census records, election records and county records for land ownership etc. You have to know who you are descended from before you can be sure you are following the correct family lines.

Many people make the mistake of using their known family names and matching it to names on the Rolls. These folks usually find out later that they are not related to the people on these rolls and are greatly disappointed.

I'm not sure why you have used the term, "Title" to indicate a name given to you by your father. Perhaps you need to clarify that for yourself.

I would encourage you to read the threads on the Ancestry and Genealogy forum. There is tons of information there.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:36 PM   #4
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I'm trying to get the various thought lined up in this thread.

Titles: I guess your attempting to describe an Indian Name.
Your claiming Choctaw and possibly Cherokee and I will speak for these.
Typically the name is just that the name that another person calls you other than hey you! Most typically tribes of the Southeast and most particularly the 5 civilized tribes your name was what people know you by such as John or Sarah. They typically do not have a deep meaning nor is there a long "Naming Ceremony" such as other tribes may have. This is for the most part a Hollywood Myth that you have to have a name of some sort usually walks with is somewhere in the name all of these are Myths and New Age Nonsense. I even read you could pay a bona-fide Indian a fee and he will name you and your dog too!!

As For Blood
Remember what I said about names?? You start with your self then list your parents get birth certificates for them that should list there parents which would be your grandparents.
Ok armed with this DOCUMENTED facts you tackle the 1907 Dawes Rolls they are divided by Tribe and by Status.

I am 50 years old and my parents were born in the late 1930's their parents were born in the late 1890's. This is key because it meant that they were of age to enroll on the Dawes Rolls that ran from 1896 to 1907 my Grandpa was 10 and Grandma was born in 1907 no problem I just go back to her parents which they enrolled her brother and sisters so I know that I am dealing with the correct family. Siblings and Aunts, Uncles are a very helpful way to determine you are dealing with the correct family.

If you follow this advice you will find what you are looking for if its there. Remember we are not talking Hundreds of years but usually 3 or 4 Generations
Start with your self then your parents and go back
If they are not there then you probably have found another Family Myth that there is Native blood some time back and that is all it is...
Myth
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:54 AM   #5
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Thanks for all the info.
1. I know that Quanah Parker was comanche and that's why I specified that it was a rumor and not a fact.

2. As for getting a birth certificate, I'd probably have to snoop a little, without letting my dad know. In the past when I've tried to talk to my dad about family history his feeling is that the past is the past for a reason. My mom and dad are divorced and have been for many years so I may be out of luck with that piece of info. But I'll go back as far as I can and try to gather as much information that I can.

3. I wasn't expecting some grand story about recieving my name. But i certainly didn't expect my name to come from a woman he had a one-night stand with. But on the other hand, he told me that she was a very pretty, and he thought he was doing something sweet by passing her name onto me. I don't know. I didn't ask for a detailed explanation about it.
Thanks again for the quick replies.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanya2012 View Post
Thanks for all the info.
1. I know that Quanah Parker was comanche and that's why I specified that it was a rumor and not a fact.

2. As for getting a birth certificate, I'd probably have to snoop a little, without letting my dad know. In the past when I've tried to talk to my dad about family history his feeling is that the past is the past for a reason. My mom and dad are divorced and have been for many years so I may be out of luck with that piece of info. But I'll go back as far as I can and try to gather as much information that I can.

3. I wasn't expecting some grand story about recieving my name. But i certainly didn't expect my name to come from a woman he had a one-night stand with. But on the other hand, he told me that she was a very pretty, and he thought he was doing something sweet by passing her name onto me. I don't know. I didn't ask for a detailed explanation about it.
Thanks again for the quick replies.
Most vital statistic depts will allow a limited access to birth and marriage records for genealogical information. You may have to prove you are your father and mother's child. You can do that by getting your long form birth certificate. Check with your state vital statistics for their regs on genealogical research.

Hospital birth records are also something to consider accessing. You can ask for your birth records from the hospital you were born in. They may contain info on your parents and even a contact name for NOK for your mother. Also look for your baptismal records. They may also have info on parents and grandparent's names etc.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
Most vital statistic depts will allow a limited access to birth and marriage records for genealogical information. You may have to prove you are your father and mother's child. You can do that by getting your long form birth certificate. Check with your state vital statistics for their regs on genealogical research.

Hospital birth records are also something to consider accessing. You can ask for your birth records from the hospital you were born in. They may contain info on your parents and even a contact name for NOK for your mother. Also look for your baptismal records. They may also have info on parents and grandparent's names etc.
Good places to Start...
Always remember you cant jump generations to a specific person on a "Roll" Documentation is where to start and your Birth Records are the easiest to get merely write for them. All States have a Dept of Vital Records. A quick Google search will give you the correct address for your particular State. Your Parents and Grandparents Names are next Birth Certificate if Living and Death Certificate if dead.
Ok
Now for Lesson 3

Final Rolls of Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory AKA DAWES ROLLS. This is the series of "Rolls" that are used by All 5 Civilized Tribes for the purpose of determining Citizenship in these Tribes: Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, Seminole and Creek Nations.
One very important criteria to remember about these Rolls.
Everyone that is listed on all these rolls physically lived within Indian Territory at the time these were done. If they had left and taken up residence anywhere else for what ever reason they will not be list on the Final Rolls.
Anyone that came from outside of Indian Territory and attempted to enroll are Listed on the Unapproved Rolls they will have a copy of the testomony and reasons for not being enrolled.
Blood Quantum was not a REASON!!
Typically it was because they did not live within Indian Territory or they could not prove an Indian Ancestor.

Common Myths about these Rolls are that people refused to sign up they hid out or other such nonesense.
The purpose of the Roll was to Allot common Land to the individual Family and Disband the Central Government of the Tribe.
THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS showed up from all the States and Territories of the United States to get the Free Land and turn around and sell it!

The Roll is divided up in an Index which will give you the census card number that will give you the Testimony which is usually 7 to 10 pages of narrative text and supporting documents such as marriage documents and other such things. All the information given is cross check with previous rolls and other supporting documents.

I suggest you subscribe to a website called www.fold3.com small monthly fee and you can read these documents for yourself they are all online now.

Last edited by Josiah; 01-24-2012 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:11 PM   #8
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Thank you for the additional information. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to have my work cut out for me. I have an aunt that I may be able to get some details from I'm hoping. Infact, there's no time like the present to call her.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:01 PM   #9
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Thank you for the additional information. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to have my work cut out for me. I have an aunt that I may be able to get some details from I'm hoping. Infact, there's no time like the present to call her.
Genealogy is fairly easy, documenting is the hard part. Family stoies cannot be documented and listed as factual.

Never, ever let anyone named Walks With Turtles take your child into any arena...

I have ran the few names you posted, you did not state where these people were born or about what time period they were born in. With the Gillian name you provided, I found none who are Indian, but it is hard to get information when so little was given to go off of.

Question to you, why is it so important to you to have Indian blood? How would you feel if there is no Indian blood to be found in your family?
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:04 PM   #10
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Tanya2012,

Talk to timmy tiger.

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