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Old 03-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #81
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Oh, you know I am open to discussion in all things: no worries!

Here's the deal, from my perspective...

I like what I like because I biologically like it. I have no big or evil subversive plans as such, it's just what I like and I cannot change it. Primarily, that's one of the reasons -- although I find the idea distasteful -- that I have no qualms with gay folks: it's the same standard. If I get to "like what I like," they do,too.

But yeah, I openly believe that a Native who desires their children to "marry a Native person" is a 100% race baiting zealot. (Just like a Korean, Black, Jew, White Power fool, etc., who believes the same thing.) Why?

1. It's ignorance to believe that, due to a specific racial makeup, said potential mate is to be preferred.
2. It's fearful to believe that a potential mate from any other race is, by definition, not as good.

I mean, come on, we all know that, right?

As for being a man's man -- if I am -- that really has nothing to do with what I prefer to date.

Again, I have no issues with questions...
Maybe I should've narrowed it down to either dating or marrying. Lumping both together might be stretching it too far.

I'd say that dating should be encouraged by everyone so you can see what the other person/culture is like without blindly jumping into marriage and possibly suffering the consequences. If you find you're not compatible with the other person you can call it quits with little harm.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:48 AM   #82
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In my lifetime, I have witnessed many Native men and women who weren't attracted to other Natives. Some dated just white people. Some dated predominately black people. Some mostly hispanic people. Others dated and married anybody EXCEPT Native people! *L Indian people just assumed they were too good for their own.

A big motivation for dating non Native people was monetary gain or to gain status in a certain segment of society or party scene!

Sad to say some of these Native people only hung around other Natives at funerals or when there were payments/financial benefits given.
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:09 PM   #83
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i ended up with a white man bcus i was a self hating ndn teenager. i thot for sum silly reason that being with a ndn was gonna be a life of being poor and him being drunk and beating me up....cus thats what i was raised around. It was ignorance. It was spite to my father. It was also not tru, but then there are as$holes in every race i spose. I do know that I wont ever date another white guy again.lol.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:09 PM   #84
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Sad to say some of these Native people only hung around other Natives at funerals or when there were payments/financial benefits given.
It would be difficult to NOT be "too good" for that.

Those folks irk me.

Let's not pretend that it isn't a significant number...
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:48 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
In my lifetime, I have witnessed many Native men and women who weren't attracted to other Natives. Some dated just white people. Some dated predominately black people. Some mostly hispanic people. Others dated and married anybody EXCEPT Native people! *L Indian people just assumed they were too good for their own.

A big motivation for dating non Native people was monetary gain or to gain status in a certain segment of society or party scene!

Sad to say some of these Native people only hung around other Natives at funerals or when there were payments/financial benefits given.
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i ended up with a white man bcus i was a self hating ndn teenager. i thot for sum silly reason that being with a ndn was gonna be a life of being poor and him being drunk and beating me up....cus thats what i was raised around. It was ignorance. It was spite to my father. It was also not tru, but then there are as$holes in every race i spose. I do know that I wont ever date another white guy again.lol.
There was a NDN gal at the pow wow I attended last summer who I'd date in a second. Of course I chickened out as far as introducing myself (need to get over that). I'm having my sis and her son try to get some info on her as we speak so maybe I can set up a date when/if I go back this year.

There was a pretty white girl I grew up with and I lost track of her after we went to high school. I saw her brother about twenty years later and he said she got married and the guy beat her up all the time. So white guys are the same. A punk's a punk.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:58 PM   #86
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So...the question is: How do we feel about ndns dating/marrying non-ndns?

I'm in two minds about it. I think it is sad when a race ceases to exist because they have been completely absorbed into the predominant race. I hope that never happens. Diversity is good.

On the other hand, I am myself the result of mixed race marriages between whites and ndns. I also have a great nephew and niece who are half black and Jewish cousin in-laws. It would be rather pointless for me to object to inter-racial marriage considering my family history.

As to what kind of fellows attract me: Blond-haired and blue-eyed Germans and black haired Asians, preferably Japanese. I also admit to a certain attraction to ndn men wearing feathers. I meet Timmy Tiger once a year so we can powwow together and ogle those guys close up.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:56 PM   #87
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So...the question is: How do we feel about ndns dating/marrying non-ndns?

I'm in two minds about it. I think it is sad when a race ceases to exist because they have been completely absorbed into the predominant race. I hope that never happens. Diversity is good.

On the other hand, I am myself the result of mixed race marriages between whites and ndns. I also have a great nephew and niece who are half black and Jewish cousin in-laws. It would be rather pointless for me to object to inter-racial marriage considering my family history.

As to what kind of fellows attract me: Blond-haired and blue-eyed Germans and black haired Asians, preferably Japanese. I also admit to a certain attraction to ndn men wearing feathers. I meet Timmy Tiger once a year so we can powwow together and ogle those guys close up.
Now that I want to find it again, I can't locate the link (GRR!). But the other day I was reading some results from the 2010 Census, and if I remember correctly, nearly half of all people who identified themselves as native also identified themselves as mixed of 2 or more races.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:11 PM   #88
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Now that I want to find it again, I can't locate the link (GRR!). But the other day I was reading some results from the 2010 Census, and if I remember correctly, nearly half of all people who identified themselves as native also identified themselves as mixed of 2 or more races.

North,

The "official 2010 Census" figures won't be available until next year. I am dying to get these Indian figures for my research.

I think you're right as far as self identification for the 2000 Census. Most Natives self identified themselves as 2 or more races.

I am a little concerned with how Indian census is calculated. If a person self identifies themselves as American Indian or Alaskan Native, "then they are" for all census purposes! .... even if they haven't a clue what tribe they are!

To remedy this, I served as one of the consultants for the Indian portion of the 2010 Census by recommending a line item for individuals to write in more than one tribal affiliation.

Back to Indians dating/marrying non-Indians....


If you are Native and think you are too good to date another Native.... you maaaaaay be a redneck! *LOL J/K!
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:40 PM   #89
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North,

The "official 2010 Census" figures won't be available until next year. I am dying to get these Indian figures for my research.

I think you're right as far as self identification for the 2000 Census. Most Natives self identified themselves as 2 or more races.

I am a little concerned with how Indian census is calculated. If a person self identifies themselves as American Indian or Alaskan Native, "then they are" for all census purposes! .... even if they haven't a clue what tribe they are!

To remedy this, I served as one of the consultants for the Indian portion of the 2010 Census by recommending a line item for individuals to write in more than one tribal affiliation.

Back to Indians dating/marrying non-Indians....


If you are Native and think you are too good to date another Native.... you maaaaaay be a redneck! *LOL J/K!
I'm going to search through my web history and see where that link was...

Redneck, LOL!
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:44 PM   #90
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Ok, that was quick!

Here's the link:

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/b...c2010br-02.pdf

The data I was mentioning is on page 13. The actual percentage of natives claiming multiple races is 43.2% - (not 50, but still a large number).
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:37 PM   #91
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If you are Native and think you are too good to date another Native.... you maaaaaay be a redneck! *LOL J/K!
If you are Native and think you are NOT "too good" to date some Natives?

Then you're perpetuating the problem by saying it's okay to act/be/think that way.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:52 PM   #92
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aaaaaaaaand getting back to the topic here.

I am mixed. My mom is Cherokee/Creek, my dad is White/Cherokee/black.
You'd think that, with me being as mixed as I am, I'd be all for the whole melting-pot thing. But, I'm really not.
I can't tell you how confusing it is (and you other mixed folks know) to be mixed. You don't really fit in anywhere and so you kinda always feel lost. Can't "pass" for white, but don't look quite Indian either. I'm a 5'9" light brown but not quite white, wavy black haired, green-eyed freak of nature.
Humans want to fit in. It's natural, but when you don't look like ANYBODY else around you, it makes you feel very alone.
At least it did for me. I hated it with every fiber of my being.
So I can say, from the perspective of being a product of such mixing, that it makes things harder for the kids of these marriages.
That said, there is a bit of a double-standard at play also.
Because my mother is the Full Native one, I am seen by my community as Indian and nothing else. However, If it had been the other way around, I would have no clan and would not be recognized as Native.
Most Native cultures are matralineal. Therein lies the tricky part.
If a Native woman marries a white d00d, while it's not ideal, it's tolerable, cause the kids will still have a clan and a place within the traditional fabric of the tribe.
Meanwhile, if said Native woman's brother marries a white woman and they have kids, those kids will be considered white as that is what their mother is. While they won't be necessarily shunned from the commuinity, they won't have a clan and may, in some tribes, not be recognized as Native.
For example, in my tribe, when a man marries, he goes to live with his wife's family. The children inherit her culture, her clan and are raised almost exclusively by her family. That's how it was done in my family. I have only ever met 2 of my father's relatives.
As the mother of a Native boy, I know that I will have to give him away to a wife one day and may have little to no involvement in the lives of my grandchildren. Depending, of course, on how traditional his wife's family is. From the day he was born, I've had to accept that eventuality. As do most Native mothers.
So.. if I'm gonna give my son and my future grandchildren away to live among another family, I will be VERY picky about the girls he dates. He is aware of the traditions and we have talked about it, but even before that, he'd never really taken an interest in yoneg(white) girls.
When a man brings home a white woman, it's no surprise that, more often than not, his mother will be pretty upset. She's looking at not only having to lose her child, but there's every possibility that he and the children will lose their culture. That'll be the end of the line. This breaks any mother's heart.
This kind of dynamic can spell trouble for the couple. The man's family may resent the girl for diluting the blood of future generations, the guy will almost certainly get teased and ripped on for being with a white woman, and the kids will be stuck somewhere in the middle.
If I were full white, I probably wouldn't marry a native because I wouldn't want that on my head. But, since I'm mostly native, and am totally not attracted to white men, (too freakin' HAIRY!!! ewwww) I guess i'm lucky.
In the end, like it or not, your kids will date who they feel a connection with.
Things have changed since our grandparents' time. While you should marry someone because you love them, you also can't forget how that marriage will impact future generations. These are considerations our grandparents made, but in today's society, people just don't do things that way anymore. The focus is more on the individual and their own happiness. Little thought is given to those around them or those who will be born from that union.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:38 AM   #93
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mmm

Last edited by jack2011; 09-01-2011 at 07:39 PM..
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:53 PM   #94
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(Putting that aside, however, this "sort" of question has always intrigued me and is, I believe, the best sort of intellectual masturbation: what do we find attractive and why?

For example, please find below a representative photograph of what appears to be two perfectly normal, smiling, pleasant American Indian women of potential child-bearing age.



Great, huh? Dressed well, sunny disposition, yadda yadda... That should "work," right?

They, of course, do absolutely nothing for me. (sigh) Objectively, I can't think of any specific reason why that is the case, it just is.

On the other hand, this perfectly normal soccer mom getting out the vote?



She needs to let me buy her a coffee, immediately.

Now, here's the question: Have I always felt this way, biologically and as a personal preference, or have I been imprinted in some manner to prefer one over the other? (And, either way, am I the only one?)

Related to dating/marrying non-Natives, I think it's an interesting query.
Funny how this stuff works, because I feel exactly the same way...always have...as far back as grade school, it was always the Filipina, Japanese, NDN that I found attractive, and later dated. Never the white girl.
Why this should be, I can't answer...it just is.

(needless to point out that the blond with the vote sign does NOTHING for me....the NDN woman in the white blouse however....)
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:47 PM   #95
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Funny how this stuff works, because I feel exactly the same way...always have...as far back as grade school, it was always the Filipina, Japanese, NDN that I found attractive, and later dated. Never the white girl.
Why this should be, I can't answer...it just is.

(needless to point out that the blond with the vote sign does NOTHING for me....the NDN woman in the white blouse however....)
HEY, when you two figure it all out…please let me know. I am still just looking for a friend here! sheesh.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:53 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMetalGrl View Post
aaaaaaaaand getting back to the topic here.

I am mixed. My mom is Cherokee/Creek, my dad is White/Cherokee/black.
You'd think that, with me being as mixed as I am, I'd be all for the whole melting-pot thing. But, I'm really not.
I can't tell you how confusing it is (and you other mixed folks know) to be mixed. You don't really fit in anywhere and so you kinda always feel lost. Can't "pass" for white, but don't look quite Indian either. I'm a 5'9" light brown but not quite white, wavy black haired, green-eyed freak of nature.
Humans want to fit in. It's natural, but when you don't look like ANYBODY else around you, it makes you feel very alone.
At least it did for me. I hated it with every fiber of my being.
So I can say, from the perspective of being a product of such mixing, that it makes things harder for the kids of these marriages.
................... In the end, like it or not, your kids will date who they feel a connection with.
Things have changed since our grandparents' time. While you should marry someone because you love them, you also can't forget how that marriage will impact future generations. These are considerations our grandparents made, but in today's society, people just don't do things that way anymore. The focus is more on the individual and their own happiness. Little thought is given to those around them or those who will be born from that union.
Well, like The One says: "WHO claims YOU?"

Which traditions are you following, which culture, etc.

One of my kids had a grandfather nicknamed "Pumpkin" because he was so mixed he was ORANGE.

That would not be a problem in Puerto Rico, or Brazil, but the racial politics of the USA suck!
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:13 AM   #97
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It's down right disgusting to see that "300 years" history and several folks on both side of the bigot isle are still saying, "It just ain't natural."

How many stories are told of mixed marriages that saved a people, prospered a people and brought harmony to communities, villages, regions, countries and nations?

OK, so if your preference is one way great.
I married a white girl, because I love her, not because it's my preference. Asian, Hispanic, black, pacific islander, these are preferences, but I love my wife, that is why I married her. That is not to say there are not challenges, we fight, a lot, because of cultural differences.

Someone said something about NDN being drunks and beating their women, well, there is a lot of truth to that, it was also said that there are a lot of Bob Keesters in every race, there is equal truth in that. For me, personally , NDN women just don't do it for me, oh there are some I find highly attractive, but the down side is Native girls are MEAN. I mean, cut your man parts of when you are sleeping MEAN. Or super glue it to your leg and then rub it so it grows MEAN. Native women punch first, punch some more and when everyone is knocked out, decide to ask a question or two.

So it's choice and preference. Now keeping a blood line "pure", yeah there is some thing to be said to that. For natives, indigenous people around the world, that is important, but it is not the end of the world if say 4% of the native population marries outside there race.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:37 AM   #98
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HEY, when you two figure it all out…please let me know. I am still just looking for a friend here! sheesh.
hahaha...I like your attitude
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:30 AM   #99
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Last edited by jack2011; 09-04-2011 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:43 AM   #100
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"Native American isn't blood; it is what is in the heart. The love for the land. The respect for it, those who inhabit it; and the respect and acknowledgement of the spirits and the elders. That is what it is to be indian."
White Feather
Navajo Medicine Man




..Just saying.
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