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Old 01-06-2005, 10:09 PM   #1
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Indians Owe Taxes, Most In Survey Say

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FROM: THE SYRACUSE POST-STANDARD NEWSPAPER

http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststa.../1105005434289
020.xml

Indians Owe Taxes, Most In Survey Say

Majority say Oneidas using sovereignty to create unfair business advantage.

Thursday, January 06, 2005

By Glenn Coin
Staff writer

Nearly three out of every four likely voters in Madison and Oneida counties
believe Indian tribes should pay taxes, according to a poll released Wednesday.


About the same percentage said they believe the Oneida Indian Nation of New
York is using the tribe's sovereignty to "illegally avoid paying taxes and
create an unfair advantage for Oneida-owned businesses." The poll comes less than
a week before the U.S. Supreme Court is scheduled to hear arguments on whether
the Oneida County city of Sherrill can tax properties owned by the Oneida
nation.

Oneida nation spokesman Mark Emery said the poll results show that local
residents need to be educated about Indian sovereignty.

"I don't think people understand that Indian nations by state and federal law
don't pay taxes," Emery said.

The Oneida nation has used its sovereignty, he said, to create 4,000 jobs at
Turning Stone Resort and Casino, "an economic engine that has helped Central
New York, especially in light of what happened at Griffiss Air Force Base,
another entity that didn't pay taxes."

Griffiss closed in 1995.

Pollster John Zogby, whose Utica firm conducted the poll last week, said
voters are concerned about fairness.

"By and large, I think people in this area have a sense of fairness, and they
think tribes should pay their fair share," Zogby said.

Just over half the poll respondents said municipalities should be able to tax
Indian-owned properties.

The poll released Wednesday was paid for by the Connecticut law firm Drubner,
Hartley & O'Connor, which has established a reputation in class-action
litigation. Representatives of the firm did not return phone calls Wednesday.

Zogby International asked 504 likely voters a variety of questions about the
Oneida nation land claim, tribal sovereignty and the prospect of building
Indian-run casinos in the Catskill Mountains.

Gov. George Pataki last month announced that four Indian tribes had agreed to
settle their land claims in exchange for Catskills casinos. The Oneida Indian
Nation was not among them; the state proposes to settle the Oneida land claim
through an agreement with the Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin and the
Stockbridge-Munsee Band of Mohican Indians.

One poll question notes that Pataki reached the agreements that could end the
Oneida, Cayuga and Mohawk Indian land claims. The next question asks whether
respondents are satisfied to have the claims resolved. About 59 percent said
they were somewhat or very satisfied.

"People are happy to see things maybe move to the next chapter," Zogby said.

But the Oneida land claim, which spans 250,000 acres in Madison and Oneida
counties, isn't moving anywhere without the consent of the Oneidas of New York,
Emery said.

"Until the in-state tribes are part of the settlements, (Pataki's)
settlements don't stand," he said. "The litigation is still there."

The poll has a margin of error of 4.5 points. Among the poll's other
findings:

43 percent of respondents have an unfavorable opinion of Oneida nation leader
Ray Halbritter. More than 84 percent have a favorable opinion of American
Indians.

About 55 percent feel Indian tribes, casino developers and state leaders have
used pressure to get their way.

Nearly 43 percent said they are concerned that Oneida County would lose jobs
if new casinos were built in the Catskills.

65 percent oppose any new Indian casinos in Central New York. In another
question, 53 percent of respondents replied "yes" when asked if they would
"welcome world-class resorts that would draw large-scale tourism dollars to Central
New York."

58 percent said Turning Stone has helped Central New York more than it has
hurt the area. About 31 percent said Turning Stone has brought more trouble than
it's worth.


2005 The Post-Standard. Used with permission.
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:38 AM   #2
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What a crock!

University level statistics classes teach that you can make any survey say anything you want - by surveying only people for or against a subject. DUUUUH!

You can poll a group of athiests and then report, "In a recent official survey, a majority of those polled believed there is no God."

See what I'm saying?

How many Indians were included in this poll?

(Of course the Indians point of view is NEVER included in official surveys in the national media)!!
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
What a crock!

University level statistics classes teach that you can make any survey say anything you want - by surveying only people for or against a subject. DUUUUH!

You can poll a group of athiests and then report, "In a recent official survey, a majority of those polled believed there is no God."

See what I'm saying?

How many Indians were included in this poll?

(Of course the Indians point of view is NEVER included in official surveys in the national media)!!
DITTO!!
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:54 AM   #4
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I agree with WhoMe - polls can easily be scewed to say whatever. My wife took a course in college on Propaganda, and her textbooks were filled with good examples on this.

Also...FAIR SHARE? Are they freaking kidding? FAIR SHARE? Their fair share would be to take back the entire state and make everyone move. That would be a fair share.

I think the problem is that most people look at Indians in terms of racial/ethnic classifications instead of as sovereign people. It's the argument of why should they get that just because they're Indian? Well, it's not that...it's due to treaty agreements with the US government.

Another HUGE problem is jealousy. These counties and state governments are so jealous of Indian casinos they can't stand it.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
I agree with WhoMe - polls can easily be scewed to say whatever. My wife took a course in college on Propaganda, and her textbooks were filled with good examples on this.

Also...FAIR SHARE? Are they freaking kidding? FAIR SHARE? Their fair share would be to take back the entire state and make everyone move. That would be a fair share.

I think the problem is that most people look at Indians in terms of racial/ethnic classifications instead of as sovereign people. It's the argument of why should they get that just because they're Indian? Well, it's not that...it's due to treaty agreements with the US government.

Another HUGE problem is jealousy. These counties and state governments are so jealous of Indian casinos they can't stand it.
I agree with SingerDad. Your average white guy has no clue about tribal sovereignty.....that's where the problem is---and of course jealousy.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:28 AM   #6
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It might not be a bad idea for some of these high-profile gaming tribes to get into the PR business and start some real education about what it means to be a sovereign nation. Why should we expect the general public to understand sovereignty when the President of the United States couldn't even explain it to a group of minority journalists at last year's UNITY conference. According to W, the government gave Indians sovereignty. Part of me wonders if he didn't use that terminology on purpose though because if you give something you can always take it back. Something to ponder.
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:32 PM   #7
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Oh I totally agree about the poll, but then again, there are alot of folks out there that feel this way. That's why we have One Nation and UCE out there. They don't agree we are sovereign nations and that we are super citizens with special rights. It should'nt just be us making them understand though, I feel the federal government should do more to educate the public on our sovereignty. And actually I feel it should be part of public school curriculum.
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:35 PM   #8
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Oh and another thing they don't mention is this... the casino owning tribes in NY also have compacts with the state. Sure the state does'nt get taxes from the profits, but they get a good portion of money every year and that's in the compacts.
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
I feel the federal government should do more to educate the public on our sovereignty. And actually I feel it should be part of public school curriculum.
Yeah, but the feds aren't going to educate these people about sovereignty, as it might set back their schedule of systematic genocide, and they don't want that, they WANT the public to resent us, they want the masses to turn on us, they want us GONE. It's sh*t like One Nation and UCE that scare the hell outta me. and if you all aren't scared by this too, you should be. remember it was tactics like this that hitler used in the beginning, turning the german public against the jews. How long before the Indian wars start up again, and they finally do wipe us out of exsistence?
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:49 PM   #10
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oh believe me.. it scares me.
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:17 AM   #11
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Is Indian Sovereignty real?

"You can only be sovereign if other governments acknowledge your sovereignty."

Our's doesn't.

Our government elected leaders cannot even define the word sovereignty, let alone know how it works in Indian country.



True sovereign nations:

Have a tax base, print money and have an army.




Would our government let us do that?
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:06 PM   #12
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Lightbulb

I didn't read the entire article, but taken into consideration what people have said it seems like the same old story. Ironic enough some people can define Sovereignty and some can't. It's pretty cut and dry, but like a faucet it's conviently turned on and off to suit certain needs. The..."We'll take this into consideration, but let's not give them too much leverage" routine comes right out of the Official playbook.....To sit and watch someone who is in a leadership position of this Country absolutely miss the forest for the trees says a whole lot! So on a grander scale that just goes to show how certain communities are thinking? Oh yes indeed it may be scary, but it's pretty pathetic to bare witness to this manipulation.....The general public fears Indigenous Peoples in more ways then one, but it is the Indigenous Community that stands right there in the face of that adversity and continue to walk the talk. You can only lie, steal, and cheat for so long.....Eventually it's going to catch up with you.....As i've said before and i'll say again the days of the Yoneg and their deceptive ways are numbered.
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:34 PM   #13
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more like the end of this article is related to the discussion than the whole of it

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FROM: THE BUFFALO NEWS NEWSPAPER

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...12/1030457.asp

NIAGARA FALLS

Seneca Bonds Get 'Negative Outlook'

By ANDREW Z. GALARNEAU
NEWS NIAGARA BUREAU
1/12/2005

NIAGARA FALLS - A bond rating firm says the Seneca Nation's internal
investigation of its casino business has contributed to a "negative outlook" for its
bonds.

Standard & Poor's said its rating signaled that the company's assessment of
Seneca bonds might change, depending on how the investigation and other Seneca
government issues turn out.

Seneca Gaming Corp. has overhauled its board and notified the federal
Securities and Exchange Commission its 10K filing will be delayed. Those facts and
the "scope and outcome" of the investigation led to the change, Standard &
Poor's analyst Emile Courtney said this week.

The rating itself has not changed, Courtney said.

"It just says we see a scenario where the rating may go lower," he said.
Overall, "the company's operating performance is good, and the company continues
to maintain adequate credit measures." Seneca Gaming publicly offered $300
million in bonds last May to finance its 26-story spa hotel, now going up behind
the Seneca Niagara Casino, and other development.

The Seneca internal investigation, first reported by The Buffalo News on Dec.
31, was started after the new Seneca administration took power in November.
Roscoe C. Howard Jr., the former U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, is
heading the probe, which is scheduled to be reported in February. New Seneca
Nation President Barry Snyder could not be reached to comment. Courtney said
delays in filing 10Ks are more common these days, with corporate boards
responding to stricter reporting rules. So the bond rating company's concern "does
not appear to be related to operations," said Courtney. "It's really just a
combination of the governance issues."

If the Seneca Nation resolves these issues "over the intermediate term, we
would consider moving the outlook back to stable," Courtney said.

The corporation's two casinos took in net slot machine revenue of
$317,228,646 during the 2004 calendar year, according to a Seneca source, who spoke on
condition of anonymity. Seneca Niagara Casino in the Falls had net slot revenue
of $248.7 million. The Seneca Allegany Casino, which opened in May, had net
slot revenue of $68.5 million, according to the source.

The total state share, 18 percent of the net slot revenue from both casinos,
is about $57.1 million. The Niagara Falls local share is about $11.2 million.
That's lower than the $12.5 million expected by city officials, but more than
2003's $9.5 million.
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