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Old 05-22-2006, 06:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsalt
I recieved my powwows.com upcoming powwows e-mail this morning(thanks Paul). As I was going thru the list, i could not help but notice a trend that stood out. States without tribes(Fed. Rec.) have many more PWs than States with one or more. Just a few from the newsletter;

South Dakota= 1 Illinios=3
Kansas=1 Kentuck=3
OK= 9 Ohio=6
New Mex.=3 Indiana=4

Does this strick anyone as odd. Why are there some many event in non-indian country. Is this a product of "the people" as a whole spread thru out the country and finding way to celebrate or is this a sign of things to come. A person or group of any type can put on a event and call it a powwow.
I suppose it is good that people can find their way to the circle from just about anyplace in the US/canada.
I just assumed there would be many more from states containing tribes.
Any thoughts

Lostsalt
There's a few things.
I think that some here are going to take your observation
a little too much to heart, and thats a shame.

But, I know when I dance here in MD,VA & DE, they ask for
your card at most powwows. Especially the competition ones.
But I've seen two or three that don't ask anything.
Hell I was at one two years ago up in Cecil County, MD by
this Red Heart sumthin or other group and saw a guy dancin in a
costume you would get at a masquerade party store.

The wife and I stayed long enough to get fried bread and left.
Took that long damn ride for nothin.

But I think that you see so many more powwows east of the
mississippi period, because you have so many here that either
had their heritage stripped from them and they're trying to get
back. Also, we have many nations & tribes here that are holding
so many because they're tryin to hold onto as much of the peoples
culture with so many more years of forced integration then those
tribes and nations west of the mississippi. That and it's how many of
them get the funds run their tribal offices.

Of course this only my opinion.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsalt
Why is it that every powwow east of the mississippi and west of the appla. mtns it put on by a bunch of plastic/wannabe/1/684%/hopetobe/wishtheywere/hobbs, who think they know more than anybody? Why can they do what they want with anyones family/tribal history/design,etc? Why can they insult "the People" and nothing be done?

But that was not what I asked.....was it?
Lostsalt
Lostsalt,
Please take what I say with kindness and understanding. I do not wish to show any disrespect to you or others that may be reading this.

I can anwser some of your questions from the reserch I have done. The reserch I have done has only been in Ohio, but I'm sure it applies to the entire area.

Most of the tribes indeginous to this area have been lost to wars, total dismemberment and other factors. Almost all of the history and traditions have been lost as well except for what has been written in the white way. If you were born in this area and try to trace your native ansestory, you will find huge holes where the native blood comes from. Some records will say "Indian Father". Adoption records are closed off and most have been changed to unknown or other clueless reasons. There is no clew to the name or tribe. Many records were also changed or distroyed. It was a way of distroying the ndn population. There are very few people who know who they really are. The people here grab at straws assuming that they are doing things the right way. (This other group does it this way so it must be right)

A lot of the people here have very little ndn blood. But as I have said before in other threads, There is a jigsaw puzzle here with so many pieces missing that people must assume what the whole picture looks like. There are also self claimed elders and chiefs out here that use the people for their own devices. Some of these elders and chiefs are card carring ndn. (You have an offiicial looking card so you must be right) Some native people from out west that come to this area for work or other reasons, either hold the toungue and say nothing, or make their oponion known on deaf ears. Some end up joining the ndn center here and stay with the high percentage bloods.

Some of the people here are listening. It's like forming a new religion out here. It's slow but some things are changing little by little.

You also have people out here who truely believe that they have ndn blood somewhere in the lines but have none. Very few bloods out here are willing to go to the people and teach in fear that they will be labled as well.

A good example is in what way you dance. Clockwise? Counterclockwise? Or how about barefoot in the circle because you are closer to mother earth. Or is dancing barefoot soiling mother earth? How about the people who back out of the circle to show respect in never turning your back on the circle. Turning your back to some is a sign of disrespect in some areas. Just as turning your back to the circle is a way of protest in other areas. Do you dance in a circle or in an oval? For example look at the powwow grounds in Arlee, Montana. The circle in under a steel pavilion cover and is actually a rectangle. The people dance in an oval fashon. It may be considered a circle. It's just happens to be where the powwow is held every year. I mentioned Arlee because it is my favorite powwow. I'm sure that almost every powwow you go to, there will be something that someone will disagree with.

You were taught one thing but others may have been taught in other ways. I'm not saying what is correct or what is incorrect because I do not know all the customs and traditions of all tribes. I would love to know the lost true histories of many tribes. It's something that will never happen because what lost is lost forever. People assume thing are the right way because others tell them so and they believe.

From reading some of your posts, I can clearly see that you do not believe everything you are told. That is very wise. You have some education in the native ways. I do not know how much. You must also understand that if a person is looking for knowlege as a child would, even the incorrect may appear the correct way.

I will leave you with one final example to think about. It's just one word. The word "color" or is it "colour"? In Canada the word is spelled colour in english. In the U.S. it's color. Remember both are correct and mean the same in the english language. Everything depends on where you come from, where you are at, and what you were taught weather it is correct or incorrect. It's what you believe to be true.

Please excuse any spelling errors.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:25 PM   #23
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Observation

WhoMe---I may see you in Nashville. I live about 125-130 mile west of Nashville.

Lostsalt---The biggest reason I am defensive is here in Tenn. we are fighting for reconegation of the Indian poplation of this state. I guess when you are told that no Indians live in the state and you know different, you get edgey. I ask this of you in a good way. How would you feel if your state told you and your tribe that you were not Indian? If My words came to you in a bad way , I do apologize for my words.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Trails
WhoMe---I may see you in Nashville. I live about 125-130 mile west of Nashville.

Lostsalt---The biggest reason I am defensive is here in Tenn. we are fighting for reconegation of the Indian poplation of this state. I guess when you are told that no Indians live in the state and you know different, you get edgey. I ask this of you in a good way. How would you feel if your state told you and your tribe that you were not Indian? If My words came to you in a bad way , I do apologize for my words.
2 Trails,

In reading your posts, I would say that the word that should be used is frustrated not defensive. You have a very tough road ahead of you. Just like in Ohio, some tribal people are asking to be reconized. Their words fall on deaf ears.
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Old 05-23-2006, 06:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Bb,

I'm emceeing a powwow in Nashville in October.

Lot's of Natives attend. They are a good powwow committee! In the past they have had good host drums there including Battle River, Yellow Hammer, Young Bird and Haystack!

I used to go to a powwow in Memphis. It was pretty good too. I've gone there singing with the host drum.

What Tennessee powwows are considered - "iffy?"
I don't know.. I've never been there myself. I could ask my sister but she'll probably say the you are emceeing is'nt iffy... which is the one in fact that if I can get another client in my house soon, I'll be going to . My parents up and moved to TN... I was horrified... they were supposed to move back to the rez and they go down to TN... sigh. BTW.. my sister was the powwow princes for that powwow 2 years in a row and they wanted her to be it again the next year but she said she was all done with being princess LOL.
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Old 05-23-2006, 09:55 AM   #26
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TKMJ= Very well said, nice work. I grew-up in carolina. A very similar situation occurs there as well. As the tribes were broke apart, or stayed around and made a living. To the new states & gov.you were either white or black, free or slave. Being Ndn was not allowed. And if you wanted a job, you had better not show your ndnness to prominetly. Many of my family pictures show the women overusing powder to get that white look.
Yes I know all to well the stuggle you speak of, lived it.
So a factor may be a mix of decendents trying to reconnect and transplanted bloods from other areas, resulting in a higher # of dances. Especially when you add the new ager types in there.
Would this area have fewer pwww, if there was a tribal presences?
2trail= i hope i did not come off as snippy. Its just that I get tired of hypersensitivity and overaction on this site at times. It is like people(not u specifically) are looking for something to get offended by. So when I post, i try to speak as I would in front of my Elders, or any other Elders for that matter. Because There are computer savy Elders out there that do read this site. I for one do not want to be called out by any tribes elders. I watch my step. This is an open forum. I can have tremedous power to do good. We have also seen that it can tear down. 1 more thing 2trails, Tenn would be a little different in my mind,being so close to Cherokee.

Thanks to ya'll for the opinions.
Peace
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:05 AM   #27
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TKMJ= Very well said, nice work. I grew-up in carolina. A very similar situation occurs there as well. As the tribes were broke apart, or stayed around and made a living. To the new states & gov.you were either white or black, free or slave. Being Ndn was not allowed. And if you wanted a job, you had better not show your ndnness to prominetly. Many of my family pictures show the women overusing powder to get that white look.
Yes I know all to well the stuggle you speak of, lived it.
So a factor may be a mix of decendents trying to reconnect and transplanted bloods from other areas, resulting in a higher # of dances. Especially when you add the new ager types in there.
Would this area have fewer pwww, if there was a tribal presences?
2trail= i hope i did not come off as snippy. Its just that I get tired of hypersensitivity and overaction on this site at times. It is like people(not u specifically) are looking for something to get offended by. So when I post, i try to speak as I would in front of my Elders, or any other Elders for that matter. Because There are computer savy Elders out there that do read this site. I for one do not want to be called out by any tribes elders. I watch my step. This is an open forum. It can have tremedous power to do good. We have also seen that it can tear down as well. 1 more thing 2trails, Tenn would be a little different in my mind,being so close to Cherokee.

Thanks to ya'll for the opinions.
Peace
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Trails
WhoMe---I may see you in Nashville. I live about 125-130 mile west of Nashville.

Lostsalt---The biggest reason I am defensive is here in Tenn. we are fighting for reconegation of the Indian poplation of this state. I guess when you are told that no Indians live in the state and you know different, you get edgey. I ask this of you in a good way. How would you feel if your state told you and your tribe that you were not Indian? If My words came to you in a bad way , I do apologize for my words.
I'm lost

The original point of this thread was that lostsalt was looking through the calendar here and found many more pow wows in areas not considered Indian country than he did in areas such as SD, ND, MT...etc...ya know...rez-based pow wows. That's all it was about I thought. I've noticed the same thing. No biggie. Its a fact. He didn't say there were more pow wows on in the east...just that more were listed in the east on this site.

And, he sure didn't say that people in those areas weren't Indian. Why get so defensive? Dang...it was just an observation LOL
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:54 AM   #29
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2trails I was at the pow wow in cookeville you refferred to in your post in fact I am a member of the council. I wanted to thank you for your comments about it, the woman you spoke of whose son is being sent to Iraq is my sisterand i really appreciate your words about her.
I also feel the need to address the "defensiveness" issue.... Here in tennesse a couplke of years ago our governor decided that the states official position should be that there are no indians living in tennessee. You can probably imagine how shocked the indian community here was to hear this.Quite frequently I am dismissed by people as not possibly being a real indian because I dont live and have never lived on a reservation. Does living on a reservation make one an indian? I am certain many of the Great chiefs of the past would be surprised to hear this.
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:08 PM   #30
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Talking How's this thread is going LOL

ORIGINAL POST: I wonder why there are a lot more pow wow listings in the south than the great plains?

RESPONSE: I am too an Indian!

OP: What? I'm just curious as to why there are more listings in places like SC, GA, and TN than there are places like SD, ND, and MT.

RESPONSE: Just because I don't live on a rez doesn't make me less of an Indian?

OP: Ok.... But, any reason as to the lack of listings from the great plains?

RESPONSE: Quit denying me my heritage!!
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
ORIGINAL POST: I wonder why there are a lot more pow wow listings in the south than the great plains?

RESPONSE: I am too an Indian!

OP: What? I'm just curious as to why there are more listings in places like SC, GA, and TN than there are places like SD, ND, and MT.

RESPONSE: Just because I don't live on a rez doesn't make me less of an Indian?

OP: Ok.... But, any reason as to the lack of listings from the great plains?

RESPONSE: Quit denying me my heritage!!
YES...YES...YES
SingerDad.. THANK YOU,
That happens alot to me here. It is like my kid when I go into the kitchen "I dont have any cookies, dad." I never said you did, but now that you mention it. Give that cookie!

The lack of self-confidence in who people think they are can be seen really well here sometimes. Some folks are so concerned about convincing people they are ndn, they never listen to what is actually being said/posted..
Thanks SingerDad, for screaming the obvious when I couldn't.
Much respect to and due to you.
Lostsalt.
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
ORIGINAL POST: I wonder why there are a lot more pow wow listings in the south than the great plains?

RESPONSE: I am too an Indian!

OP: What? I'm just curious as to why there are more listings in places like SC, GA, and TN than there are places like SD, ND, and MT.

RESPONSE: Just because I don't live on a rez doesn't make me less of an Indian?

OP: Ok.... But, any reason as to the lack of listings from the great plains?

RESPONSE: Quit denying me my heritage!!

Singerdad, that's hilarious, in a sad but true kind of way. Do ya often have these little conversations running thru your head?
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Old 05-23-2006, 06:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsalt
TKMJ= Very well said, nice work. I grew-up in carolina. A very similar situation occurs there as well. As the tribes were broke apart, or stayed around and made a living. To the new states & gov.you were either white or black, free or slave. Being Ndn was not allowed. And if you wanted a job, you had better not show your ndnness to prominetly. Many of my family pictures show the women overusing powder to get that white look.
Yes I know all to well the stuggle you speak of, lived it.
So a factor may be a mix of decendents trying to reconnect and transplanted bloods from other areas, resulting in a higher # of dances. Especially when you add the new ager types in there.
Would this area have fewer pwww, if there was a tribal presences?
Peace
Lostsalt
I think the amount of powwows in the area would go up for a few years after a tribe is reconised. Some bands here would try to align themselves with the tribe. As we know that won't work because of blood. Bands would also ask for reconition from the state. To get reconised by the state, one usually makes a lot of noise. We make noise by having a high profile powwow. You get in the states face by using the people of the state to add pressure. The dog and pony show thing.

After a few years things will settle down to about what they are now with one or two additional super powwows a year held by the tribe. The tribal powwows would also kill off a few regular powwows because of dates chosen.

That's how I see it.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:00 AM   #34
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Ok, I'll bite on this one...

Please take what I am about to say for what it is... my opinion, don't think I am trying to sound holier than thou or anything else... It's just my OPINION.

I have grown up in the state of Ohio, and around here I have seen a lot of the "my way or the highway" attitude. I was caught up in the politics and bs of "who's more ndn than who" and the "my card is bigger than your card" mentality. There are carded competitions here (the most noticable one run by a white guy as an attraction to his "festival,") and there were always two lines drawn... natives that hang with the centers in the state (mostly fed recognized) and the other "tribal" groups. Now some of these groups are straight up questionable... but I will get to that later.

After I got married, I was looking around at grad schools and ended up getting a TA position back where my wife is from at Washington State. When I hit the scene out there, I really got my eyes opened! When I walked in to pow wows over there (I'll be the first to admit that the white blood I carry has made me a lighter variety of skin, don't think creator let me get cooked quite long enough... LOL, i jokes) and had no problems. I saw dancers competing in competition that were lighter than me, and winning, but no one questioned... are they ndn? When someone came up to me at pow wows over there, their question were merely to say, hey man, nice to meet you, where you from? In my two years out in the Pacific NW, I never heard the phrase, "well what gives them the right to....?" once, it just wasn't done.

And then, I moved back to Ohio. Once we started back on the curcuit, I started to hear that, "well what gives them the right to....?" question at least 10 times a weekend. I think I bought back in to the mentality for a while, but have had enough of it. Here is my main point... What makes me an expert? am I some kind of x-ray visioned superhero that can leap tall buildings and see geneologies in a single bound (Even though I would like to be known as Capt. Indigenous or Capt. Frybread or something... that'd be cool... LOL) No, I can't know what anyone's blood line is, so who am I to judge at a glance? The dark skin ain't always a marker either, I know one boy who's half pakastani that tries to pass himself as a full-blood, sorry dude, I know better... someone first told me when I came into the community here, it ain't the skin tone that makes it, it isn't your job to judge, if someone is who they say they are, they'll show it... if they're not... they'll show it very quickly.

Respect is a teaching that transends color barriers... treat others the way you want to be treated, simple... keeping that in mind, do you want to be judged, whispered about, laughed at behind your back and to your face, treated like dirt? Then why do the same to someone else? I remember my grandpa teaching me that everytime you point a finger, you have three more pointed right back at you.

Maybe I'm mellowing out and becoming more tolerant the older I get, I dunno, but a lot of the people claiming native heritage here are misguided by charlatons and fakes, if we don't teach them, how are they ever going to learn.

Like I said... this is my opinion, take it or leave it, but I hope you will think about what I've said next time you rush to judgement. If these words have offended you in some way, you have my apologizes.

Sorry for the book, but I think the words needed to be said.

Paselo
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:16 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by hywalker
last year in st louis area , 1 pw was thrown by a native, the others were all from wannabe groups looking for recognition and a way to make money. dont know who or why other areas throw their pw's, i do know most of these around here are thrown so that the lost ones can claim native. ps watch out for the cahokia mounds pw coming in i think sept. they call it a chance dance, u dont have to be good dancer just be in the circle when your # is drawn lol, that'll get the best dancers here (sarcasm)
.

What's sad is that most of the powwows in TN and KY are just like that. A bunch of wannabees all congregating so they can wear minnetonka moccasins and silly *** outfits (I've got pictures you wouldn't believe) and talk in some kinda silly stilted dialoge right out of a bad western. The two good powwows are The Don Yahola Memorial powwow, which i never miss, and the NAIA powwow. Both are contest powwows, but they are real NDN events, and I'm guaraunteed to be around lots of other NDNs for a weekend. It quells some of my homesickness.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:33 PM   #36
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On the subject of the original post now.

Okay. Here's my thoughts as to why the powwows where there aren't any established tribes left are more advertised.

Places where there is a strong NDN presence and standing NDN communities, everybody already knows everything that goes on anyway, be it who is cheating on who, who got arrested, or where and when the next get-together or powwow is being held. Like Mato said, the NDNtelegraph.

In places where there aren't any real communities and people are just scattered, the NDN telegraph doesn't reach very far, so the events have to be advertised. Unfortunately this brings in some real weirdos too, but it's the best that can be done for now.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:38 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
ORIGINAL POST: I wonder why there are a lot more pow wow listings in the south than the great plains?

RESPONSE: I am too an Indian!

OP: What? I'm just curious as to why there are more listings in places like SC, GA, and TN than there are places like SD, ND, and MT.

RESPONSE: Just because I don't live on a rez doesn't make me less of an Indian?

OP: Ok.... But, any reason as to the lack of listings from the great plains?

RESPONSE: Quit denying me my heritage!!
Oh Damn! You crack me up! Spot on observation, too.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:38 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
What's sad is that most of the powwows in TN and KY are just like that. A bunch of wannabees all congregating so they can wear minnetonka moccasins and silly *** outfits (I've got pictures you wouldn't believe) and talk in some kinda silly stilted dialoge right out of a bad western. The two good powwows are The Don Yahola Memorial powwow, which i never miss, and the NAIA powwow. Both are contest powwows, but they are real NDN events, and I'm guaraunteed to be around lots of other NDNs for a weekend. It quells some of my homesickness.

Nice to hear there are still some to look forward to in non ndn territory's. were crossing our fingers the one my wife's throwing in august will be one of those. alot of natives from Oklahoma and other area's are volunteering their time for it. But as its been said, gotta advertise it in this neck of the woods, NDNtelegraph dont work well up here lol. (this blatent ad sponsered by the committee to further kk's powwow)
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:49 PM   #39
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Nice to hear there are still some to look forward to in non ndn territory's. were crossing our fingers the one my wife's throwing in august will be one of those. alot of natives from Oklahoma and other area's are volunteering their time for it. But as its been said, gotta advertise it in this neck of the woods, NDNtelegraph dont work well up here lol. (this blatent ad sponsered by the committee to further kk's powwow)
Hywalker,
Can you give the details on your wife's powwow? When in Aug? Where? I gots ta know!!!
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Old 05-24-2006, 08:03 PM   #40
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Hywalker,
Can you give the details on your wife's powwow? When in Aug? Where? I gots ta know!!!
lol more than happy to
Saturday August 26th from noon till 10pm.
At the East Central College, 1964 Prairie Dell Rd., Union Mo., 63084.
Open to the public and still room for a select few vendors.
I'll be adding one of those yahoo map finders to the powwow information page that will be added to kiowakat.com by this weekend. the flyer is already on kiowakat.com in pdf format if any would like one
This powwow is in celebration of kk's parents 50th wedding anniversary, so were setting it up with no intentions of making money (LOL i know , wierd concept). The head staff coming up from Oklahoma are volunteering thier time. the college has donated the gym. we'll be selling some t-shirts for the occasion . Also for native vendors for only 25 dollars setup fee (still got a few spots open). all proceeds will go to the headstaff to try covering some of their expenses.
I'm totally psyched for it, with Hammond Motah as Mc and Preston Tone-pah-hote as Headman, just to name a cpl, it's gonna be a blast . but i ramble lol
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