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Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues is the issue of wannabes,fakes etc important to you?? is the issue of wannabes,fakes etc important to you??

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Old 01-12-2008, 03:10 PM   #41
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i dont claim to know everything about flutes, but what i do know ive learned from credible sources and mentors. so when i hear things that i know to be wrong it drives me nuts.i try to fix what i can to limit the damage people do, but i can only do so much. my biggest pet peeve is the idea of there being a single 'traditional native american flute', like everyone had the exact same design. true, some flutes overlapped different tribes, true, some east coast flutes share features of west coast flutes. but an apache flute is not the same as a lakota flute or a kiowa flute or a cherokee flute or as anyone elses flute.
i might let the concept of a 'typical native american flute' slide, but i hate seeing the edges of identities being blurred like that.
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Old 01-12-2008, 03:13 PM   #42
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That's what I can agree with 100%. Each tribe is different and has their own ways, beliefs and on and on. To throw them in together, I think, takes away from the people and hurts our children and our future and it does drive me crazy.
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:01 PM   #43
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test lol I am being monitor on another thread was wondering if I was being monitored on this thread lol..test test aye
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:33 PM   #44
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was you being bad again kk?
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:45 PM   #45
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was you being bad again kk?
LMAO not me
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:06 PM   #46
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dont make us put you in timeout again
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:23 PM   #47
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dont make us put you in timeout again
LMAO to funny....
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:56 PM   #48
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you wasnt looking to get spanked were you? cuz we dont do that here, this is a good wholsom family program.

the issue of wannabes and fakes irritates me more in matters of intellectual cultural property and spiritual matters than it does in material matters. having a federal card isnt going to make anyones work any better,not having one doesnt make it any less. quality is quality and id rather a person hang thier reputation on quality before heritage.
however, these goofs selling sweat lodge retreats and mock sundances all need to be hanged
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:23 PM   #49
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Spankings are done in the Official Timmy Tiger and 50 Cal thread.LOL
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:08 PM   #50
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To me it would be the reason why people need to fake or be a wannabe. Most of the time it is about money and the worst people who make it alright for people to fake are other ndns. I know a non-ndn who carves on wood and silver. He can't make any money on his own but pays some ndn to go into the art gallery or set up at Native Art show and sell the stuff as their own. The ndn selling it gets a small amount of money and gets recognition for doing next to nothing. The non-ndn gets more money for his artwork than he would if he sold it in his name. Does that bother me yes but then I am not like the ndn who has no skills to do anything, no prospect of getting a job; he exists on welfare for whatever reason. Do I hate this ndn, no but I don't approve of him selling his soul for a few shillings. The complexion challenged person is only trying to make money for himself. Who is at fault. I also don't like ndns who are not from our territory selling their artwork as coastal art. They are from somewhere else than the coast. I have told one guy that he isn't making Haida art; it may be Haida style but he isn't Haida. The reason is these individuals don't know anything about our culture or heritage yet they are able to make ****loads of money, and I do mean a lot. It would like me going to another part of the country and saying that I was from there to make money. As an example, I know of somebody who was commissioned to make a 20' totem and he is making $800.00 per foot. He is selling it as Coast Salish Art and he is from Saskatchewan. I have a problem with that. They undercut some real good artists who are actually from my terrritory. One of my cousins gets between $1,500.00 and 1,800.00 per foot. He was born and raised in our land; he was trained by a well known artist. He lives on one of the local rez's and he also teaches some of our youth to do art. He charges so much a foot because he guarantees that the art is 100% Coast Salish art. So sometimes, it bothers me if somebody is a fake or wannabe.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:08 AM   #51
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The problem that I have noticed is that Wannabes and many Fakes do not unserstand many of the undermeanings of what they hear and observe. It takes a life time of living this life style to understand the undertones of what we do and talk about. We also need to understand that many of these things vary from Tribes to Tribes and Nation to Nation. Many call this inside info.
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:44 AM   #52
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watch these short vids

this is what we here, get to look forward to when the wannabe's throw a pow-wow here in missouri or southern Illinois......blah


YouTube - 2007 pow-wow in Cahokia

YouTube - Cahokia Powwow 2006


can you imagine living around these clowns? they end up in our schools talkin to kids in them ridiculous costumes...yes, they hire a ndn singer and he is suppose to bring his ontourage, then it ends up to be two or three singers around the drum. we use to have kick *** pow-wows at Jefferson Barracks then it moved to Cahokia Mounds, oklahoma, nebraska, kansas ndns use to come, but now its come to this in them videos...
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:51 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FluteMaker View Post
you wasnt looking to get spanked were you? cuz we dont do that here, this is a good wholsom family program.

the issue of wannabes and fakes irritates me more in matters of intellectual cultural property and spiritual matters than it does in material matters. having a federal card isnt going to make anyones work any better,not having one doesnt make it any less. quality is quality and id rather a person hang thier reputation on quality before heritage.
however, these goofs selling sweat lodge retreats and mock sundances all need to be hanged

lol still law is law.....
I understand there are non natives that can rock the socks off when it comes to craft work which is fine, they are not claiming to be indian and not selling as indian BUT when the line is crossed and non natives are selling items as ndn made, then thats when the law comes into effect. and I seen some bad stuff made by non natives lol....

no law against sweats or sundance they get by with the "freedom of religion act" blah, but what goes around comes around and they get theirs, eventually........IMO
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:53 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE View Post
The problem that I have noticed is that Wannabes and many Fakes do not unserstand many of the undermeanings of what they hear and observe. It takes a life time of living this life style to understand the undertones of what we do and talk about. We also need to understand that many of these things vary from Tribes to Tribes and Nation to Nation. Many call this inside info.

problem is wannabe's and many fakes think that pow-wows are our sacred get together...lol
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:28 PM   #55
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Hey, I've been to ones like that before. But I choose not to go back because of the craziness.

But it's not even just that they think that a pow wow is a sacred ceramony of some kind, it's even (sometimes) more then that. They will lump all Tribes together as one and expect everyone to follow what they have learned or if you don't, they will actually come up to you and tell you that you are all wrong and proceed to try to teach you what is right based on what they have learned from this one or that one or what they have read in a book.

Again, I have a friend who is a tribal member born and raised on a res. She was at a pow wow one time and went into an inter-tribal with her granddaughter. A man who claimed to be of one tribe (but learning another) approached her (in the circle) and told her that she was in the wrong and had "no business" being in that circle. She was horrified. He proceeded to tell her what he was taught and why she was wrong. He knew what tribe she comes from, but he didn't care. To this day, she won't go out in the circle (except for when she's at home, now) and dance because of this. She's not as mouthy as I am.
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:04 PM   #56
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no law against sweats or sundance they get by with the "freedom of religion act" blah, but what goes around comes around and they get theirs, eventually........IMO

im feeling chairitable,..... hang 'em anyway
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:07 PM   #57
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im feeling chairitable,..... hang 'em anyway
I like that idea. I'm game.LMAO
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:43 PM   #58
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Hey, I've been to ones like that before. But I choose not to go back because of the craziness.

But it's not even just that they think that a pow wow is a sacred ceramony of some kind, it's even (sometimes) more then that. They will lump all Tribes together as one and expect everyone to follow what they have learned or if you don't, they will actually come up to you and tell you that you are all wrong and proceed to try to teach you what is right based on what they have learned from this one or that one or what they have read in a book.

Again, I have a friend who is a tribal member born and raised on a res. She was at a pow wow one time and went into an inter-tribal with her granddaughter. A man who claimed to be of one tribe (but learning another) approached her (in the circle) and told her that she was in the wrong and had "no business" being in that circle. She was horrified. He proceeded to tell her what he was taught and why she was wrong. He knew what tribe she comes from, but he didn't care. To this day, she won't go out in the circle (except for when she's at home, now) and dance because of this. She's not as mouthy as I am.
Let me guess the area...
East of the Mississippi, south and east a bit
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:44 PM   #59
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problem is wannabe's and many fakes think that pow-wows are our sacred get together...lol
I witnessed that craziness first hand
just shook my head and said man o man over and over
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:27 PM   #60
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Quote:
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While the Creek side of my family was pretty well documented, the Cherokee side wasn't.......so it helps I've been down that road.

I have to admit, I get kind of weary of folks coming up and giving vague declarations of their heritage or wanting to tell you their ENTIRE family genealogy in hopes that you could confirm their heritage.

Used to be I just shrug and wish them luck and walk away..........but maybe by giving folks a "push" in the right direction they can find out "who they are.....and what people they come from" and maybe it will stop some of these vague declarations.
Good post! I can relate to that. I used to work in the tourism industry, and i'd get alot of people who come through asking about their genelogy. Alot of them did not know which tribe they were from, and just would expect me to know, but I couldn't. It was crazy!

I pretty much told them to start on their family tree, and go from there.
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