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Old 09-18-2009, 07:39 AM   #81
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I did not know that there were that many Cherokee groups scattered all over North America including Alaska and Germany. They sound really like wannabe tribes and want to copy Cherokees tradition and the Powwow dancing. Most of them are whites, I assume that they are. I don't know what make them want to be recognized as their tribal land. They are weird and crazy. (I am scratching my head over this).
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:20 AM   #82
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wowee... That princess really got around!!!!
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:01 PM   #83
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Wow... just wanna say thanks KiowaKat. I missed the initial posting but am glad I found this.
I used to be a member of one of the groups listed back in 1986 - 90. Back in those days it was a good group. It was an organization that truly helped native people in need in our area. There were lots of native people involved and things were great. Over time though, it began to change. People began to join the group who didn't share the same ideas and vision and they sought control of the organization. Then there were all the arguments and fighting. The traditional native members began to leave and didn't come around much anymore. That was really the end of the organization for most of us.
I have been researching some of these organizations recently, wondering what became of them. I found the one I was a part of back in '86. The current person in charge claims to have been a part of the organization since the early 80's. However, the thing is, I don't recognize this person's name. I attended practically every meeting, every event, every potluck, every class, every excuse to get together from '86 - '90 and I don't remember this person at all.
My how things change, hmmm.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:56 PM   #84
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I don't think Echota Cherokee tribe of Alabama really counts as a "Fraud" State recognition is still recognition we are protected by laws have lands and rights so I don't think fraudulent is the correct term. I myself spent 10 months or research photos govnt documents and genealogy charts to get enrolled its not an easy task. What I don't get is how you have federal natives that will sell medicine bags and bead-work I was taught you can't sell everything. The ones that sell things for just a penny. Bead-work is a form of prayer to me every bead I put on something is smudged and a prayer for someone yet people sell these things? That is just how I was raised and taught, also to NEVER sell or buy a medicine bag yet I see so many? Or the Federal people who will sell a pipe to just anyone? Pipes arnt traditional of my people but hey what do I know I'm only state recognized so I'm still considered a wanna be to this guy on here. I know some tribes that " don't need proof for enrollment" or have "pipe-carriers" or however they divy it up. I don't agree with places like the UIN or United Cherokee Nation they mean well and honestly I tried to help them but they just don't WANT to learn... its like a hobby for them. Its weird... But Echota doesn't have photos of people in headdresses on their site, most guys I know wear the traditional scalplock these places like UIN they advertise a lakota tribe with their pipes and fake war bonnets... Can't they get the culture right? But what would I know I'm not federal so I must be a wanna be.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:12 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by FlowerChild View Post
Wow... just wanna say thanks KiowaKat. I missed the initial posting but am glad I found this.
I used to be a member of one of the groups listed back in 1986 - 90. Back in those days it was a good group. It was an organization that truly helped native people in need in our area. There were lots of native people involved and things were great. Over time though, it began to change. People began to join the group who didn't share the same ideas and vision and they sought control of the organization. Then there were all the arguments and fighting. The traditional native members began to leave and didn't come around much anymore. That was really the end of the organization for most of us.
I have been researching some of these organizations recently, wondering what became of them. I found the one I was a part of back in '86. The current person in charge claims to have been a part of the organization since the early 80's. However, the thing is, I don't recognize this person's name. I attended practically every meeting, every event, every potluck, every class, every excuse to get together from '86 - '90 and I don't remember this person at all.
My how things change, hmmm.
I understand what you're saying FlowerChild, I've been involved with the same type of group and the same thing happened. It's crazy. It is truly bad when so called "interested in my culture" folks get dollar signs inside their eyes. It's a shame too! It is dishonorable!
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Old 09-15-2010, 04:05 PM   #86
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i know n everydang body here thinks their cherokee ugh!
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #87
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i know n everydang body here thinks their cherokee ugh!

lee,

Why don't you start a new Cherokee tribe? Then open the membership and I will be your first member. Then you and me can be King and Princess of our Cherokee tribe. I've never been a King before. My great, great (x 10) was a real English princess. But I can't prove it. But we (me N U) can be NdN royalty!!!

Whatcha' think????






Whatcha' think???
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:19 AM   #88
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lee,

Why don't you start a new Cherokee tribe? Then open the membership and I will be your first member. Then you and me can be King and Princess of our Cherokee tribe. I've never been a King before. My great, great (x 10) was a real English princess. But I can't prove it. But we (me N U) can be NdN royalty!!!

Whatcha' think????



Whatcha' think???
The worse and sad thing is those people really believe their grandmother was an Indian princess and they pass the information to their descendants and it just keeps going and going. Every Anglo-American person that I have ever meet says, "My great-great grandmother was a Cherokee Indian Princess." It never fails and they truly believe it. If anyone tries to tell them differently they almost jump on you to fight.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:38 AM   #89
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The worse and sad thing is those people really believe their grandmother was an Indian princess and they pass the information to their descendants and it just keeps going and going. Every Anglo-American person that I have ever meet says, "My great-great grandmother was a Cherokee Indian Princess." It never fails and they truly believe it. If anyone tries to tell them differently they almost jump on you to fight.
oooooo so u know whome personally ...ok lol how u know he wnt joking? lol
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #90
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oooooo so u know whome personally ...ok lol how u know he wnt joking? lol
LOL, I know he was joking but yep I know lots of people personally that believe that. In my neck of the woods, if you mention the word "Indian" that's the first thing you'll hear. Oh yeah and the grandmother's hair comes "down to here," always pass the hips.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:12 AM   #91
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LOL, I know he was joking but yep I know lots of people personally that believe that. In my neck of the woods, if you mention the word "Indian" that's the first thing you'll hear. Oh yeah and the grandmother's hair comes "down to here," always pass the hips.
ya i understand..... hay my hair is passed my hips ....lol that aint funny lol
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:31 AM   #92
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Thumbs down inbeleivable

What an unbeleivable group of hatred? I was trying to research on my family history and found this link. So if I am not brown I cannot have Cherokee ancestry. Next I will find I have no Scottish ancestry because I don't wear kilts. After reading some of these posts I think the authors should spend more time learning how to spell and less time finding ways to show prejudice and stupidity. As a proud Echota member I will spell it so you can understand.
Pre ju dice is stoopid. this is inbeleivable
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:50 AM   #93
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Smile Join my new group

Unrecognized Tribes now has their own group. No haters please. Make your own.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:35 AM   #94
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After reading some of these posts I think the authors should spend more time learning how to spell and less time finding ways to show prejudice and stupidity. As a proud Echota member I will spell it so you can understand.

Pre ju dice is stoopid. this is inbeleivable
Hmmm
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:14 PM   #95
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Let dogs delight to bark and bite

Just let it be as far as the people on here are concerned. Many of them are wannabe's themselves I can think of several fully carded natives that don't do ANYTHING for their heritage and don't know anything about tradition they just carry a card around and go hunting because they can its VERY sad. Now, I am Echota Cherokee one of the state recognized tribes you define as fraudulent. I know darn well I didn't have some princess in my family. I had to submit documents and home addresses with my application all the my family living Cherokee Georgia I had to submit photo evidence family charts and trees plus other things I'm not bothering to mention on here. As far as proof goes I have it but FEDERAL Cherokee require some dumb number I wonder what Crazy horse and those guys would have to say because I'm sure they wouldn't define a native by signing a piece of paper ESPECIALLY when they were the ones who refused to sign themselves i think they would be very disappointed. But unfortunately what you have to realize is a lot of people on here think if you don't have an enrollment number you're not worth talking to and state recognition isnt good enough for them. You will meet this no matter where you go and the response is to not give a time of day because these people are not on the red road if they think this way they may or may not realize it until it is too late but their points are somewhat valid as I know so many of the fraudulent cherokee etc groups running around NO PROOF required, if you have one drop yada yada yada. They get their ceremonies mixed up and that is what is dangerous, they say they want to learn traditions but they really just want to wear a feather in their hair and "Play" native. If you put them past the tests they would fail because they wont listen to their teachers, people don't even want to sing pipe songs anymore these days, when the pipe wasn't originally our people's way. When they show up to pow wow in a full warbonnet instead of a circle roach and scalplock I just look at em funny. When they receive their native name over a phone as opposed to a ceremony. I have interfered once on only once, when they disrespected a pipe in a way so unimaginable I called them out on what they did wrong and left the rest will be up to creator. But remember pipe and sacred things have a way of getting away from these people, they break they get stolen, the spirit will leave and enter another pipe if the person even knew how to have a bringing to life pipe ceremony. There are a lot of GOOD reasons for not allowing fraudulent groups, but it is also sad when you have state recognized tribes whose members speak the language they wear the correct attire and know how to properly respect sacred objects.

Then you get into two whole new categories
Is being Native American a blood type? Or is it a religion?

The people on here seem to think its a blood type and that is fine with me, however perhaps the tribes should put together tests on tradition and ceremonies to pass for enrollment or define members as those that can speak the languages would that be better? But with more members the less money to go around from our already poor reservations, you can't even opt out of taking this money if you do get federal enrollment.

The decision is up to you but don't get distracted by the coyotes out there :)
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:13 PM   #96
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Way back in the day my Dad used to get asked all the time if he was "part-Indian" because of his

1). slightly darker than your average white guy complexion,

2). his "raven-black" hair, and

3). his cheek-bones "to-die-for."

The look on people's faces when he would just answer back (totally deadpan):

"No, I'm an Alsatian Jew." (then silence)

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Old 10-18-2010, 03:37 PM   #97
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Ok. Usually I'm fairly patient with this type of discussion but today this chaps my -- uh -- hide. Get a grip, Lamb Chop!


This isn't about excluding or skin color or who hid out where. This about the threat to sovereignty and legitimacy posed by these types of groups.

Tribes have unique legal relationships to state and federal government. As a result of these relationships, tribal citizens are subject to differing laws and have right and privileges not extended to individuals who are not citizens of tribal nations. The mere idea of differing rights and protections is powerfully at odds with dominant culture's prevailing ideas of equality under the law. As anyone who has seen the walleye wars, casino battles, or sacred land skirmishes close up can tell you, this angers many voters and politicians. Throw into the mix the antics of many of these groups and you get a brew ripe to culture termination.

As several folks have already pointed out, these groups often concoct a stereotypical mixture Hollyweird and New Age. They enact a "culture" which at best serves to distort dominant culture perceptions of Native people. At worst these performances feed the belief that modern Indian people aren't real Indians at all but are just pale imitations, not entitled to the treaty rights their ancestors negotiated.

Before you call people names, or get all spiritual and holier than thou, consider what tribes are trying to protect. Consider that tribal political power -- a weak reed that it is at times -- has stood between us and some pretty ugly legal and cultural calamities.

You can be Indian without a card. It begins with accepting that exogamy and relocation have lasting effect. Just because you're not in the house doesn't mean you can't remember and honor those that lived there. And you don't have to burn it down just because it isn't your home anymore.


(Before you start making assumptions about the state of my wallet, yet again I'll do the disclaimer thing…. Just living my happy little mixed-blood life and not getting ulcers over what I am or am not. People can judge me by my actions, mostly I'm unashamed of those.)

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Old 10-19-2010, 10:55 AM   #98
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The worse and sad thing is those people really believe their grandmother was an Indian princess and they pass the information to their descendants and it just keeps going and going....... If anyone tries to tell them differently they almost jump on you to fight.

Rainbow,

You ought to fight them!

Then you will be able to tell your grand children you got beat up by the grandchildren of an Indian Princess!

*L

j/k
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:34 AM   #99
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Working together

Okay nobody likes a fraud, but nobody likes someone using derogatory terms like 'wannabe'.
The truth is that the history of people of native descent is not all on the Dawes rolls and also there were some court cases in the late 1800s proving frauds got onto that as well.
So those of you opposed to people of mixed Native/Other descent finding their roots and forming tribes...what do propose they do? Just forget about who they are--just go away because their mixed history disturbs you? What?
Personally I believe the US needs a recognized Metis category like Canada does--it would be a way for those who had to formally disavow (that was the wording in the 1830s documents) tribal affiliations to be recognized.
I really think this calling people 'wannabes' is hurtful and unproductive.

Are their crooks and frauds? Sure--but saying no one can form a tribe spits in the face of the facts of real people and their real life experiences and their own identity.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:39 AM   #100
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmouse48 View Post
Okay nobody likes a fraud, but nobody likes someone using derogatory terms like 'wannabe'.
The truth is that the history of people of native descent is not all on the Dawes rolls and also there were some court cases in the late 1800s proving frauds got onto that as well.
So those of you opposed to people of mixed Native/Other descent finding their roots and forming tribes...what do propose they do? Just forget about who they are--just go away because their mixed history disturbs you? What?
Personally I believe the US needs a recognized Metis category like Canada does--it would be a way for those who had to formally disavow (that was the wording in the 1830s documents) tribal affiliations to be recognized.
I really think this calling people 'wannabes' is hurtful and unproductive.

Are their crooks and frauds? Sure--but saying no one can form a tribe spits in the face of the facts of real people and their real life experiences and their own identity.
I beg to differ with your first statement.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/nat...t-wannabe.html

Forming a tribe? What are you going to call this tribe? The 'We Might be of Native Descent But Can't Prove It' tribe?

And forming a Metis group in the United States? How do you set the criteria for being enrolled in this category of people? Personally, I think this would be the single, largest group of people in the U.S.. Heck, it would probably be bigger than the 'My great-grandmother was Cherokee' group!!!

So what was your great-grandmother?
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