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Old 02-07-2004, 11:11 AM   #81
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Mishkomekinaaklkwe

I think Kiwehnzii was praising you for all those efforts. You are trying to raise your baby right, teaching him the culture, language etc... and that's to be commended.
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:36 AM   #82
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Sorry Mishko for the post. I'll delete it. You don't take encouragement well.

Your profile says you are in a hostile environment. I'll keep out of it.
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Old 02-07-2004, 12:01 PM   #83
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I feel bad that our friend Mishko is upset. I can only speak for myself tho. I try not to put anybody down because they are mixed, alot of my cousins are mixed and I love them like they're my own children. As for those who are ndn but don't look like it, I still see them as ndn even if they look whiter than white or if they're blacker than black (which I do have in my family). I can only speak from a view that comes from a person that comes from two parents that are 4/4 Ojib as stated by our tribal rolls. I did grow up on my reservation, and I just always thought chubby little ndn babies were just the cutest on earth, so I knew I wanted one when it was time for me to have children. Growing up with my own people set my standard of beauty, I know not all natives that grew up on a rez think that way but I do know that long dark hair, dark eyes and brown skin really is my standard of beauty. It differs from person to person. There's someone like me, then there's my childhood friend who is one of the darkest ndns I've seen:Chatter, here he is don't want to be romantically involved with a ndn woman. I find him to be a sad case cuz daang, what's better than ndn lovin? :p I mean, I know this sounds cliche but I do find my daughter to be so pretty. She has long dark brown hair, beautiful almond eyes and those nishnab cheeks. :) It doesn't mean I think a white baby or a black baby looks less pretty, this is just what I think is absolutely gorgeous.

That's another thing I don't understand, I hate it when people claim to be scarred after dating a ndn man/woman because they drink too much, or they're abusive or they cheat. I think that's pure bullshyt. And I'll be the first one :mocking: when a man of another race does that to them. Just evil.:devil

I have another question. Do ya's see hispanics as a ... what would you call it... a ndn nation of sorts. I mean, they come from people who were there before other european countries came in and tried to civilize them too. Then there's the issue of the border but there's a border between the US and Canada too (duh:p) Are we really that different? What do ya's think? :)
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Old 02-07-2004, 01:05 PM   #84
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I knew people breeded dogs for certain desirable traits... when did we begin breeding people?

The creator is making me keep my comments to myself today... I've started to reply to this forum about 5 times and to no avail! So apparently people are not ready for a new kind of thinking-all we've done is "monkey-see, monkey do" Kinda juvenile in thinking but the settlers did the same things people are doing now. "keep the blood pure"

Well you keep the blood pure! Good luck and have fun (oh yeah I understand native lubbin!!!!) But listen to your heart. Love someone for who they are, not the color of their skin.

I would love my son even if he was purple or green! And his dad too!
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Old 02-07-2004, 02:49 PM   #85
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I don't know if you get kiwehnzii's point bloodlines are important by themselves. Bloodlines help prevent the extinction of culture where theres white blood theres white influence. Its much harder for a 1/16 bloodline to live in native culture than it is for someone who is 3/4 or fullblood. 1/16 means 15 of your 16 great great grandparents where white. Thats a lot of white influence not that any of those gg grandparents are bad, but we are talking about preserving a culture and a world view. Heck being 1/2 means one of your parents is white. One parent being white does influence a persons world view. Thats just the realism of it all.

The other reality is that the governments judge us on our blood quantum and even though thats another debate its still reality. The reality is if the government sees us as just a bunch of white people with a couple of drops of blood they will see no need to provide t he little treaty obligations they have. Even if all those people spoke a language. They will just be viewed as a club rather than a distinct soveriegn nation.

Some nations are already headed for extinction due to the rate of intermarriage. Just check out the flathead rez in Montana they are dropping in population due to intermarriage.

Last edited by Gache; 02-07-2004 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 02-07-2004, 03:27 PM   #86
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BAH!
Look around people! The PC your on is someones influence. The old days are gone! (sadly!) But we can't live this generation trying to get our people brown again! Dare you to stop shopping at Wal-Mart (no more ready made EVERYTHING), stop eating out at your favorite restaurant (make sure you rice, gather berries and store meat for the winter), stop wearing t-shirts, jeans, and sneakers (put your mocs, ribbon shirt, and deer hide leggins on), give up your condo (put your wigwam up downtown-no tarps, just bark).... you see the world we live in for what it is.. influence is everywhere. No more speaking english.. ojibwemowin endaso giizhik, gabe giizhik (if you know your language fluently)..
We can't escape who we've become. But we can stop our segragated thinking! You can choose to live culturally orientated or you can choose not to. Being indian is not the color of your skin, but more a way of life. Pass on only good things to your children.
;)
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:32 PM   #87
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Exactly now try to open your mind a little. Culture is not things like a pc but a way of thinking when most of the people in your family are white your probably going to think white which clearly shows what your doing.
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Old 02-07-2004, 10:30 PM   #88
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Daaaang. You make me sound like a dog. I didn't breed, I made beautiful babies with my beautiful husband.

That was my choice. I chose my husband not just because he was NDN but because of who he was. If I wanted to chose a spouse strictly based on the color of their NDN skin, I could have been married and procreated a LONG time ago. Long before my husband stepped into the picture. I just always knew I would marry a NDN and have beautiful little brown babies in all shades and sizes. :p And not just any NDN mind you.. I was specific, I wanted a pow-wow ndn, and that's what I got. :p

And don't get me wrong, I've lived/worked around people of all different races. But I really have no shame in saying I do prefer a native. I suppose nothing is impossible, maybe one day I might date a white man, or a black man, or a Chinese man. I just don't see it happening any time soon. Just as the same as a person who swears off dating a person of another race. My cousin whose first boyfriend was Ojib, and swore she will never go out with a black man again, who swore off white men when she was dating black men, and is now married to a Dane. Talk about one confused woman huh? :Chatter Anyways, that was a little off the point.

So, alright, I guess I am close minded, but I'm happy with my little skinz running around. It is important to me that they learn their languages and traditions. I am teaching them all that I can. And to me, that's all that matters. I'm not going to feel bad because I chose that they be all ndn. And they are, there is no way they can mark of a caucasion check mark, or a hispanic or black check mark. I feel bad they can only be registered with one tribe, but those aren't my rules.

You know, I can't help that people married out of their race. I'm not blasting any one for that. I can't really be concerned which people is having sex with which people ya know? I go back to my home rez and babysit my nephew who is half black, then the next day I'll look after my other nephew who is half white. That was their mom's choice and I don't grill them on why. But then I see other people on my rez who have ojib blood in them but are lily white in color, they have come back trying to find their rez identity. Another example is this lady who is more white than ndn, she had children with a white man and she's wondering why her kids cant get enrolled. She asks my friend why her kids got on and she simply said, "My kids are more than a quarter ndn." Soooo.. I guess I'm just saying if you're in this type of situation (whoever is reading this) that if it matters to you whether you're children can be federally recognized, just like so many of us that have to prove it, maybe you should think twice next time ya wanna snag "that blonde with the surfer's azz." LMAO. Woops bringing up another thread here.

As for teaching children, My children will know NDN beauty, no doubt, but ya know, like everyone else says, I will respect their wishes, whatever they choose for themselves.

Lastly, a child is a child no matter what color it is. Children are precious no matter what.
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:50 AM   #89
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See the white looking fellow to your left.
that is me.
White, brown hair, freckles, and blue eyes.
My Maternal Grandfather is 100% Irish, from the west as they say in Ireland.
My Paternal Grandparents are English and Welsh.
By the way, the english, the Irish, and the welsh, are all considered white by NDNs, but if you think these people are like each other, well, they will tell you different.
They dont mind inter marraige, and they even accept the different color, but you better be the culteral thing, for each is quite different.
My Maternal Great Grandmother was Potano/creek, a beautiful little woman who raised six children on the river banks of the Oklawaha river, in the Land of the Sun. The Father of her children was Full blood Potano, a Giant of a man, 6ft 7in, and stronger than two mules, and as smart as three.
Kidding.
For many years i looked for my soul in the Irish.
But I followed my love of my florida , and have been discovering my Potano roots.
I, and a small group of Potano descedents in the tampa area, are finding our way back.
We all look white.
It is howthe spanish described our people.
Tall, fair skinned, very athletic and marvalous swimmers.
We also mature late, very late.
I am 6ft tall, but was still under 5'2" in my 20th year, didnt start to shave until i was 22.
Its just the Potano way to look it seems.
But, as i have grown to show you respect, you have grown to accept me as an NDN.
Why cant you do that with each other.
I have pm so many of you, i feel I can say you are all good people.
but, we are called here to lift each other up.
some love and respect is needed.
you women are the jewels of our people.
In the old days, we would raid each others nations for brides, and slaves, and we often married whites, men and women, as we encountered them.
All of my blood is red, and the same is true of you.
I love you all, and I want you to please be a little sweeter to each other.
We are talking love, and children, and family.
We need to learn to love.
we need to let god be the judge, and to let us be the children, and listen and learn as children should.
For some, this is our place, our community.
Lets make all feel loved, aproved, and apreciated, for surly we are all done these by our god.
I will extend my apologies to you.
I extend my love to you.
you are always welcome on my screen.
Casey
As NDN as anyone here!
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If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses.
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Old 02-08-2004, 01:22 PM   #90
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Gache-I have very little to say to you. I feel very distraught that you would say something like that. I will pray that you too open your eyes and see culture for what it is. Our culture has changed, its called genocide. You can see it everywhere. Thats what I was getting at. And No, Culture is more than just a way of THINKING, it is a way of LIVING. I'm sure you know this already, but coming from a "white girl" you wouldn't be willing to listen anyways. :Mad

Kwe Zee-lil skinz! LMAO! Sounds like you have a house full! Ooooo I want more babies!
:Naughty
NO I WAS NOT CALLING YOU or ANYONE ELSE A DOG! That was merely a comparison. My tribal constuition is written so all of our children are adopted at 1/4+, no matter how little or how full they are. This guarentees that we will always be fed. recgonized. As long as one of your parents or grandparents were enrolled, you can be considered.

*sighs*But dispite all the hollering around in this forum. Even tho I may disagree with some of you and you with me. whatever, keep your thoughts, and I'll keep mine. What I was trying to say in my orginal post was that I felt very hurt that you would discriminate against me and my son because of our blood quantom, or lack of. It makes it hard to be here at pws.com when people openly discriminate. If your a full, happy for ya, if your a half breed, happy for ya. If your searching for your people, happy for ya. But under no circumstances will I discriminate or condem discrimination of any form. Our people never fought like this before. Are we worried about being fed recgonized? No one else in the world gets percaps, no one else gets their school paid for, no one else gets free houses, no one else gets to hunt and gather when we do, and no one else gets their own court room. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but these are arguements I've heard before. I'm just throwing it this out cuz its on my mind. At 20, I'm still learning the finer parts of life. Because you are my elders, I will certainly take your words into consideration and think them through. Becuase I took the words said personally, I think I'm stepping out of here for a while.

I was raised by my aunties, grandma and my mother. All very strong native woman. But I never saw them say things like people say here. And if you consider their influence "white cultured", LMAO! Good luck Gache! Dem woman could teach you a thing or two, or three!

Love your children, for they are your future. Teach with care!



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Old 02-08-2004, 11:29 PM   #91
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Mishk, we've all been under Gache, and Kiwehnzii's teaching here. You will survive.

I am one of those with dual identity. "Americanizing," is what my family thought was best for me. My parents chose to put "white" on my ethnicity, so I wouldn't have to choose "other." I look white so I fit in, except when some upperclass moron saw my grandparents...plus, I "thought" differently, and "learned" differently. I was kept away from my grandparents so the "medicine" wouldn't be passed down to me....blah, blah, blah... They chose for me, but it still comes out in the end.

The "Americanizing" education inevitably estranges the young person from the values of the cultural group. I am 39 years old, and still putting the pieces together. I am speaking from experience, and it is hard when you are not totally accepted by either group.

If you can emerce the mixed child in the culture/family, and continue from there...

It's not about how much assimulation took place any more. We survived assimulation. Some of us just need to piece meal it together, enough to help our culture grow strong again.

My two cents, help me if I am way off base here.
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Old 02-08-2004, 11:36 PM   #92
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P.S. I didn't mean anything bad about your teaching guys, once the veil comes down off the eyes a little... you make a lot of since. :)
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Old 02-09-2004, 01:23 AM   #93
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From me, if you are here, and have survived this crews first wave of "welcome", you have a right to speak, or type.
I look forward to these diverse views.
I do not have many ndns here to discuss these things with, here meaning in St. augustine Beach.
I have learned so very much on boards like this.
Lets just respect each other.
Respect.
It is a powerful tool for peace and progress towards our goal.
But, what is our goal.
Can we form a thread to discuss our goals, a strategy for getting somewhere.
I would not give up the chit chat, but its the going forward, the changing for the best, that I would like us to tap into.

I am one of just a few Potano left that even knows that there was a Potano.
The Potano ruled Florida for 10,000 years.
The Potano introduced the potato to the Euros.
The Potano fought the French, the english, the Spanish.
When we were defeated by the English and Creek slave raiders, and taken to south Carolina, the Potano stayed strong, and more than 600 made it back, as slaves of the Holly family.
After the civil war, the Potano slipped into the swamps, the big scrub, and there they have lived, mixing, assimulating, and forgetting.
The Potano are here, but they must have a place to go.
I need, I feel drawn to finding a way to bring the Land of the sun back.
My best hope is other mixed bloods, other lost tribes and nations, others looking to teach and raise up the lost children that may not even know they have a tribe.
These people, they are like me.
We are answering to a voice long silent in our souls.
I know this voice is being stirred by God.
I see myself and my family growing stronger, more Potano, more ndn, every step i take on the red road, or at least towards the red road.
I use the team red road because i have seen others using the phrase.
If Iam out of line, wrong to use those words to descibe my journey, please accept my apology.
I am a tenderfoot.
My delima is this.
All of our days, like mine and yours, are limited.
I dont want to just be here for the association of friends.
I want to do the will of God.
For me.
For my wife.
For my sons.
For all the children to come.
For all the children that are gone.
I hope that a few of you will lift me in prayer, and even shine the light for me.
How I envy those of you who can look in your mirror and see a Red Man, or a Red Woman.
Those of you that can go to a powwow and look around and see familiar faces, voices, smells, and spirit.
I am not whining , or complaining.
I just want to get better.
There it is, my heart on my sleeve.
Trust, or desperation, has led me to show you my heart.
You , many of you, have shown me yours as well.
Your heart is safe with me.
I feel pretty good that we can grow together.

Never can fiqure a good way to end these post, emotional ones, so, this is the ...........
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" We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands...
If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses.
We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves...
And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..."

--The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )
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Old 02-09-2004, 06:38 PM   #94
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Do you guys have a tuition waiver in WI? I am pizzed I have to pay for my own schooling here in AZ, just like all the other natives. I didnt tho when I was living in MI, they have a tuition waiver for federally recognized natives there.
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Old 02-09-2004, 07:25 PM   #95
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I don't get per caps. I get a bit of a break on my house, but $96,000 isn't exactly free. If anyone here gets in troble for any reason, we have to go to court in town.

My gosh, I should have been born in Wisconsin.

Wait a minute. Sorry. I do get percap. I got $200 just before Xmas.:)
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:13 AM   #96
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imma mutt....and proud of it....I am what I am...and I can't change it...so why not be proud....I'm jus living the way my family taught me.....I don't care if other people dont like me....
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:07 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirbaby
I am stepping into a very important subject, blood.
What is to be done for those "wannabees"( are they the same as mixed blood?) that hear the voice of their Native American elders calling them to the red road.
Are these people to be mocked, sent away, or something else.
I want to hear from Full, Half, and slices of all size.
If you are mixed, and looking for a way home, how are you finding the journey.
Do you have a tribe that is willing to teach you the native way?
And what is the native way.
And are the others, the fulls and such, are they on the right path.
As a mixed the journey home can be trying at times. As for marrying a full blood, I can understand. But love is love, if the Great Spirit means for two people to join, then blood shouldn't matter. Culture is more than blood. It's the common thread that binds a group together, and blood isn't the only factor. Being a mixed has given me problems here at sometimes at pow wows. I only go to small pow wow since I live on the East Coast. Some of my younger family members are mixed with black, and they have had problems. But if blood is the only factor, how many of those marriges have lasted just for blood. Are the children better off being a fuller blood without parents. Job opertunites will cause Native children to leave and they will marry outside the blood. We they be accepted? Mixed can learn the Native ways and still pass them on. It's up to everyone. I try to learn as much as I can when I can be around other Natives, and I try to pass it on to my children. Language is hard when you have no one to talk to, but I try to learn and keep it. Marry within the blood if the one you find is the one for you, true love. If without full blood, still love and accept the children, their the ones who will need to fell like they belong to something bigger.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:30 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gache
I don't know if you get kiwehnzii's point bloodlines are important by themselves. Bloodlines help prevent the extinction of culture where theres white blood theres white influence. Its much harder for a 1/16 bloodline to live in native culture than it is for someone who is 3/4 or fullblood. 1/16 means 15 of your 16 great great grandparents where white. Thats a lot of white influence not that any of those gg grandparents are bad, but we are talking about preserving a culture and a world view. Heck being 1/2 means one of your parents is white. One parent being white does influence a persons world view. Thats just the realism of it all.

The other reality is that the governments judge us on our blood quantum and even though thats another debate its still reality. The reality is if the government sees us as just a bunch of white people with a couple of drops of blood they will see no need to provide t he little treaty obligations they have. Even if all those people spoke a language. They will just be viewed as a club rather than a distinct soveriegn nation.

Some nations are already headed for extinction due to the rate of intermarriage. Just check out the flathead rez in Montana they are dropping in population due to intermarriage.
Since you brought up the government issue, I will comment. By bringing in the mix bloods we grow in population as a people. Each year without the mix bloods the Native population get smaller and smaller. I've heard that some in congress want to go away with alot of the money and benefits that treaties have given Natives. That we are Americans and shouldn't get anything extra after all these hundreds of years. Alot of that has to do with population numbers. Other groups who don't worry about the percentage have a stronger voting block. Some say they don't care about the strenght of Native voting block, but in the end it will matter. To stay strong, we must all come together and let everyone else hear our voice. To let them know we still exist and still live in the ways. I would guess most full bloods live in the center of the country, but the voting and money strenght of the country are on the two coast. Some where I live don't even know they are other Natives than those who live on the rez. Alot here have Native blood and don't care. After their G-G-Grandparents passed on the ways, they were lost and soon became known as old folk, or hill billie ways. So let's come together and become strong.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:50 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
I'm not discriminating. I stated my opinion. That's all I can do. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees is entirely up to them.

It is people with like mind who will ensure that our next generations bloodlines will still be strong. I don't know if there will be forums like this when my great-grandchildren are around, but I can say that (with a great deal of certainty) at least one of them will be typing out a message like this in 40 years or so.

How can I say this? The importance of keeping the bloodline strong was instilled in my great-grand parents who passed this on as I have done with my son as he is doing with his offspring.

In fact, I'm writing it down along with a record of our family tree which will be passed to each grand child and hopefully passed on from there. There is a lot of truth in that saying about teaching your children at a young age and they will not depart from it. I think that is some kind of Biblical phrase but I heard it and has stuck with me.

I see the teasing that kids get that are mixed with non-Indian. I don't get pleasure from that. I feel bad for them.

It's not a good thing but it's real. It happens. These are some of the consequences that young people have to deal with when considering mixing with non-natives.

I'm not hating, my freinds. I'm just being real.
One thing I've had to learn in the military is that discrimination is in the how the person receiving a message takes it. Not in the sender. If the persone receiving it feels discrimination, no matter what's in the senders heart, charges can be brought up against the sender according to military and alot of private business rules. So I try to watch what I write because I don't know how someone will receive it. Some have written that mixes where a way of the early governments way of taking over from the Natives. But history also says that Native leaders also tried to mix with the whites to become friends and in hopes that being brothers the whites would deal honestly with them, which didn't work. Try to stay full blood if that's what happens in the heart of the two people wishing to marry and have children, but also love the mix if that happens.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:03 AM   #100
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Try to stay full blood if that's what happens in the heart of the two people wishing to marry and have children, but also love the mix if that happens.
"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG"????? I'm a half-breed and I'm proud. My mother is Sioux and my father is German/Swedish. I am married to an African American, who has a small percentage of Cherokee blood. Just because someone has more native blood than me, they are not superior. I am content with the mix of my family. I plan on telling my children, to marry whomever they want to, as long as it's a nurturing relationship, and not an abusive one.
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