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Old 11-21-2005, 02:56 AM   #1
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Lumbee: the only tribe ever made by the government

wow i bet you lums just love that title. but you still talk about how the government has been sticking you over the years. Why do you continue to follow by that fake name find out who you really are stop wandering search for the truth its out there many others found it and you can too. make your ancestors proud and bring back there traditonal name to this land and you will be a stronger minded person and i promise you will be proud of who you really are. why do they keep changing were they come from? they cant keep there lie strait. the lies are running out. why do they come to the tuscarora and ask them questions about makeing ceromonies? they have none. why to they want to learn the tuscarora language, woops,I thought they were a cheraw speaking language, woops again cheraw was a tribe that was wiped out after the wars from 1711-1713. now they are saying they are sioun speaking people, but arent the wacamaw a sioun speaking tribe but a few years ago the lumbee said there was no relation between the two but know they claim there bloods. shame, now they are stealing blood. why is it when you go up to one of there historians they either drop there heads and walk away or they are always confused about the history lesson you just give them. the croatan indian normal school was just a big setup to brainwash the people here and teach them the lies and it worked for some but not all. they used the same tuscarora migration pattern but just changed the tribal name to cheraw, but they use to say the cheraw came from south carolina, you see all they do is sit around and think up new lies to tell the people and the government but why do they try and fool the government who created them and knows who they really are. but they want to play dumb and act blind. God did not create the lumbee the white man did so why would you want to be apart of something not of God. but he did create the tuscarora and all the other real tirbes of the world and there language ,ceromonies,traditions,clans,goverment but all the lumbee can do is go back to 1956 were it all was created. THE BIG LIE!!!!!!!!look in the dictionary it will tell you were lumbee came from.


NYa-WE!!!! to our ancestor who faught to keep our name strong and alive and we will continue to fight till we get justice we will do what ever it takes.

T.O.T.E. Tuscaroras Of The East since creation
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:51 AM   #2
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Chwe'n,

To back up what TOTE is saying, check this out:
http://www.skarorehkatenuakanation.o...hronology.html

This may help to clear up any misconceptions that most here evidently have regarding this issue. For the people who claim Lumbee at the moment, take what you find to your so-called "leaders", and ask them to verify what is written. Then, come back and report your findings.

If you ever wondered why your leaders never told you about your ancestors past prior to 1956, this information may help you to understand why you have had that feeling in your heart that something was missing. It has never been missing, just "hidden".

Like the Mohawk said to us when they helped teach the Great Law years ago; "don't take our word for it, take this information, digest it, and make up your own mind"

You, the "grass roots" Lumbee here have been victoms of genocide your whole life, but only you, can take your destiny back into your own hands.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 11-22-2005, 08:18 AM   #3
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Last week I had the pleasure of meeting the Lumbee Tribal Ambassadors when they came for a visit to the Cherokee reservation. Little Miss Lumbee, Junior Miss Lumbee, Teen Miss Lumbee, and Miss Lumbee all visited in addition to their chaperones and they were very nice young women who represent their tribe very well. They were actually some of most well-spoken tribal representatives I've ever come in contact with. I learned some of their tribe and traditions which was interesting because everything I've heard about them has sort of demonized them in my eyes, but that was based on ignorance and not facts.

True, there was no historic Lumbee Tribe, but there also was no historic Three Affiliated Tribes or Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe. The Three Affiliated Tribes is comprised of Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara peoples while the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe is comprised of Mniconjou Lakota, Itazipco Lakota, Sihasapa Lakota, and Oohenumpa Lakota peoples. The point is that these tribes are comprised of various groups of people just as the Lumbee Tribe is comprised of various groups of people coming together under a new name. What's the big deal and what's the difference?
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:33 AM   #4
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Thanks Singerdad,

Finally someone who knows. Its so sad that these "Tuscarora" wannabes don't get out of N.C. much. Then they'd see the truth for themselves. These people know nothing about unity. The group began in the late 60's because they were upset that the Indian schools were being integrated. Its early roots also stemmed from violence, and we all know that violence brings about destruction of a nation. They also claim Tuscarora as a group without even checking their geneology to see if they really do have Tuscarora blooodlines. Of course, a few of the Lumbee do have that ancestry. But as I said only "a few" can claim it, not ALL these people. Sooo tell me T.O.T.E, do you agree that not all Lumbees have Tuscarora blood?

so STOP your little mission to try to tell an entire people who they are or are not. You ain't God are you? If you want to rant and rave go to NY and see if they'll let you at the next Grand Council meeting. HA!

Godstomp

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Old 11-22-2005, 09:44 AM   #5
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So tell me,

Why do Tuscaroras go to the Lumbee tribal offices and sign up for housing assistance? I know some of you hardcore "Tuscaroras" who've done that. Yep, I sure do and I could mention names JOHNSBOY. If you are so anti-Lumbee then don't come seeking our services. Screw that! If you going to be an outkast and down your own people, then you can march yourselfs right up north and join the Tuscaroras. How bout that?
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:15 PM   #6
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Chwe'n,
Singerdad, granted, I will give the benefit of the doubt in regards to more than one tribal affiliation here. But, my problem is with "WHY" the name Lumbee came into existence. Why, was to cover-up the people primary blood, which is Tuscarora. The Lumbee (LRDA) did the research and came up with the same scenario. More importantly, these tribes you mentioned from out west, were still able to assert their treaties that were signed prior to the "new" designations, as individual tribes.

Now, when the Lumbee hearings were taking place, D.F. Lowry spoke of about five tribes here, Tuscarora being one of them, and Cheraw never being mentioned. Then, when you look at the final language of the Act, it makes sure not to give any rights that other "tribes" have, including "TREATY" rights. There were several treaties that Tuscarora were party to prior to removal to New York, and which the people here are party to today. But, not as "LUMBEE". the people automatically give up those rights with accepting that name, plain and simple.

Now, Godstomp. You say these things about how Tuscarora reemerged as a bad thing. I see it as a good things, because it shows that the fighting spirit has not died completely yet.

You said..."They also claim Tuscarora as a group without even checking their geneology to see if they really do have Tuscarora blooodlines. Of course, a few of the Lumbee do have that ancestry. But as I said only "a few" can claim it, not ALL these people.

I don't know your background Godstomp, but Locklears, Lowrys, Jacobs, Brayboys, Hunts, Brooks, Sampson, Brewington, Oxendine, Ransom, Chance, Freeman, Revels, Jones, Chavis, Goins, and others, trace back to Tuscarora originally. (LRDA "settlement pattern study" 1983 by Wes White and Rebecca Seibs, and Carol Oxendine" if you want to doublecheck me)

As far as I am concerned, instead of only a "few" that can claim it, only a few "CAN"T" claim it.

Next, yeah there are Tuscarora who go to try and get assistance for housing, but that is because HUD monies is "SUPPOSED" to be for all people, and not just Lumbee. These monies are competitive grants, which means that anyone can get them. The Lumbee chooses to discriminate against Tuscarora, forcing them to get Lumbee cards before serving them.
I was in a meeting years ago when the HUD people from Chicago came down. In the meeting, I asked if it was legal to deny Tuscarora from receiving any assistance, and Jame Hardin said that they serve all enrolled Lumbee 1st, then non-enrolled Lumbees, and then everybody else. We then asked if we could receive HUD grants ourselves, and we were told that we must accept "state recognition" before that happens. Immediately afterwards, the guy from HUD said that we could have the $500,000 that the Tuscarora in New York turn down everyyear.

Not to mention the fact that the Lumbee got their first million dollar grant off the heels of the Maynor V. Morton lawsuit in 1975, from CETA.

Since then, the Lumbee have put down and disrepect Tuscarora, saying that we are only "disgruntled" , and "renegade Lumbees".

You Godstomp may not be primarily Tuscarora. Again I don't know who you are by your handle, but that does not mean that a majority of the people here are not Tuscarora. Did you even look at the link I posted? Please do.

The conspiracy to cover up the people's name began in 1885 on February 10th by Hamilton McMillan. This is the day that the name Croatan was passed into law. Two days later, in the Fayetteville Observer, an article on the people here was reprinted from a Asheville newspaper weeks before. In it, it says..."They say that their traditions say that the people we call the Croatan Indians (though they do not recognize that name as that of a tribe, but only a village, and that they were Tuscaroras), were always friendly to the whites; and finding them destitute and despairing of ever receiving aid from England, persuaded them to leave the Island, and go to the mainland.…They gradually drifted away from their original seats, and at length settled in Robeson, about the center of the county.

Now, McMillan Knew what our people's oral traditions were weeks before the law was passed, yet he chose to pass the "FIRST" of many fictitious names that would follow. Look it up. Go to the library and get the Mircofilm for the Fayetteville observer for Feb 12, 1885, and see for yourself. Or go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCTuscarora/ join, and you will see it all here.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.O.T.E.
the only tirbe ever made by the government

what's a tirbe????




*L* j/k
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
what's a tirbe????




*L* j/k
Chwe'n,
That is what the government created when they passed the Lumbee Act.
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:20 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=CandaePrincess]what's a tirbe????/QUOTE]

A tirbe (tuhr-bee) is an Indian Furbee...just in time for xmas!!
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Old 11-22-2005, 02:16 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=Singerdad]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
what's a tirbe????/QUOTE]

A tirbe (tuhr-bee) is an Indian Furbee...just in time for xmas!!
LMFAO!!! That was too muss Singer.
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:29 PM   #11
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Lumbees - Real Indians, not fake ones

TOTE and other Tuscarora supporters,
You really need to think about how you fashion your arguments, how you even present them, down to the very last word. Because this thread really does harm to our tribe and our people, when viewed from an outsider's perspective. Even the thread title has negative connotations. "Fake" name, "Fake" tribe? People take things literally these days. It's called ignorance. And there's already enough of it floating around out there, when it comes to Indian people, and certainly when it comes to Lumbees. So, while it's fine for all of us to agree to disagree (or agree) please don't trash the legacy of "our" (yours and mine) people by voicing your opinions in a manner that can be "misconstrued", and possibly "divisive" and "hurtful".


BTW, Singerdad, I agree with you. And, thanks for the compliments for our queens. Miss Lumbee is a family friend and an outstanding young representative, in addition to all the other girls.
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:58 PM   #12
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Chwe'n,
Geronimo, I mean no harm or disrespect in what I say and write. My whole family, except for my mother claim Lumbee, and we were also until only 13 years ago.

I know this may hurt some feelings now, but in the long run, most will thank us for what is said. I know you, and other who accept Lumbee are proud of your Native heritage which is just as strong as many other Nations today. I have no problem with the Lumbee "grassroots" people, who have been misled for the last 5 centuries by their own leaders who knows everything we are saying to be true.

I remember years ago when Natasha Wagnor was Miss Indian USA and at some function with Hillary Clinton. Hillary asked what the Lumbee language was, and the only thing Natasha could answer was the "Queen's english". This is what her leaders taught her while preparing her to go out representing her people. She did the best she could with what she knew. Unfortunately, many Native Nations laughed at, and ridiculed her for this, which I imagine hurt deeply.

We do have a language. We do have ceremonies. We do have a history longer than 50 years, but it is not Lumbee. Can you answer me why these things have not been taught in schools or any where else?

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:20 PM   #13
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Every coupla months or so this subject comes up.

People like to bicker, I guess.
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:46 PM   #14
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T.O.T.E

But what does it really mean?

toe of the elephant?
touch of the erect?
toast on the egg?
tick on the ear?

Last edited by godstomp; 12-18-2005 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Chwe'n,

Now, Godstomp. You say these things about how Tuscarora reemerged as a bad thing. I see it as a good things, because it shows that the fighting spirit has not died completely yet.


Chris
Violence is never ever ever a good thing. Ever. All it did was bring about division.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Every coupla months or so this subject comes up.

People like to bicker, I guess.
No kidding!

Seems to me...If you claim NC Tuscarora, you should be focusing your energy, at the least, towards State recognition. Because, if you ever gain state recognition, you'll be sitting at the same table with the Lumbees, Haliwas, Waccamaws and the other tribes of NC.

This isn't my argument,so I have nothing to add, for or against. However, I have worked with many of the Indian leaders in NC politics, including James Hardin, Bruce Jones, Greg Richardson and many of the Tribal directors. They are/were some of the best people I've met.

P.S. I've also worked with Wes White. For some reason, he reminded me of the old hippies in California.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:14 PM   #17
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Before I hear accusations off this board, I am not Godstomp and I have not contacted Godstomp or talked to Godstomp. thank you and goodnight.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
Before I hear accusations off this board, I am not Godstomp and I have not contacted Godstomp or talked to Godstomp. thank you and goodnight.
Chwe'n,
lol, what makes you say that Blackbear? Congrats on the jelly making, my mom just made some muscadine grape last month. She hadnt made any in years, but she hadnt lost her touch.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 11-23-2005, 05:34 AM   #19
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LOL what makes me say that??? You can guess LOL!! I've never heard of muscadine grapes... are they good?
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Old 11-23-2005, 11:38 PM   #20
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to you Godstomp, I am not the john you are thinking about, my name is john, but it was kinda wrong the way the housing department done my buddy, he had to get a lumbee card to recieve help with a situation, then when he would ask how much of the work leon had complete so he could work on his house he couldnt he had a dead line to meet but leon let it pass, so all they wanted was him to be a lumbee and deny tuscarora, all he wanted was your free services but he still wont deny tuscarora but he denies lumbee. Yes I have done my geneology and my folks do go back to tuscarora blood and thats not cheraw not siouon or any other tribe your history schollars try to hang on us, btw henry berry lowry was not lumbee he was a tuscarora his geneology says so stop calling him a lumbee he probably rolls in his grave every time you say he is a lumbee, and no not every lumbee is tuscarora, probably half the lumbee are not lumbee some of there indian blood ran out two generations ago their is no way their is 40,000 indians with enough blood to meet criteria maybe you should go past the 1800's opps but you cant you will find the truth and it will come out and we dont want that do we LUM.
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