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Old 11-24-2005, 01:12 AM   #21
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Hey shouldn't this thread be somewhere else than Powwow Talk?
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Every coupla months or so this subject comes up.

People like to bicker, I guess.
Yeah, you're right, and just like a rubber necking motorist, I stop my car and watch.

It's almost like those R. Kelly videos, only instead it's
"Skins Trapped in the Closet Part 55".
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:15 PM   #23
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Very interesting reading, especially the history. From reading the history, my take on this subject is that Lumbee people are really Tuscarora. It's too bad the the language and culture was "almost" all lost during this period of time. As the years pass, I think most tribes are destined for the same thing, unless we take action now to teach our young.
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godstomp
Violence is never ever ever a good thing. Ever. All it did was bring about division.
Chwe'n,
Tell that to your ancestors who fought so that you can be here today.

By the way, what, if I may ask, are you talking about pertaining to violence with Tuscarora here?

The BIA takeover, or the double voting, or the desegregation of the Indian schools here? I don't know of anyone getting hurt ever, with Tuscarora Issues here.

Is this something that the Lumbee leadership is propogating now?

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 11-28-2005, 06:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad
No kidding!

Seems to me...If you claim NC Tuscarora, you should be focusing your energy, at the least, towards State recognition. Because, if you ever gain state recognition, you'll be sitting at the same table with the Lumbees, Haliwas, Waccamaws and the other tribes of NC.

This isn't my argument,so I have nothing to add, for or against. However, I have worked with many of the Indian leaders in NC politics, including James Hardin, Bruce Jones, Greg Richardson and many of the Tribal directors. They are/were some of the best people I've met.

P.S. I've also worked with Wes White. For some reason, he reminded me of the old hippies in California.
Chwe'n,
Many Tuscarora groups here think that the "state recognition" is a joke. It may as well be called the Lumbee Commision of Indian affairs, given the fact that they have controlled it since it's inception. I don't think Qualla Boundary wants anything to do with it either.

Several groups have filed for state recognition in the past, but were turned down. How is this you may ask? Lumbee control. Also, one of the requirements for state recognition is that a group must have been around atleast 120 years. The Lumbee have been around since 1956, yet they were accepted. This is another reason that many feel the commission only caters to the Lumbee and those who think like them. The state only likes to work with tribes that sit back and do what they are told, and not those who want to see change.

As far as those individuals that you mentioned, I know them, but I will leave it at that. They have never been friends of Tuscarora, but have and are enemies in most regards. No offense to you personally.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 11-28-2005, 11:10 PM   #26
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Understood Chris. Somewhere in this thread I read where people had to say they were Lumbee to get help with housing. I'm just saying focus you're energy to identity recognition on your behalf. Again, this isn't my argument, so it doesn't affect me one way or another. Just looking from the sidelines.

On a personal note. Say hi to Tim for me. Little Joe's (The little tradish dancer from days past.lol) Dad said hello.
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:41 PM   #27
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Here we go again......

All I had to do was look at the title and knew that there was some IDIOT but I guess everyone is welcomed to there opinion..but for future references make sure you dont include everyone in your crazy a$$ hypothesis And adding more gasoline to the fire that already exists with my beloved Lumbee nation... But if there is any truth to these thoughts of someone that has too much time on there hands, get some hard evidence...ROCK HARD, not no his momma, and her granddad.....the infamous Henry Berry Lowery/Lowrie/Lowry....come on now, how is someone going to be able to trace homeslice that far back, if most of the time no one really knows how he spelled his last name?????? And further more, who gives a you know what, what the government says or even thinks.......I sure dont. I mean come on now Federal Recognition would be very beneficial to alot of Lumbee Natives that need it, the elderly, and the sick, and hey I could really use my schooling to be paid for, but if not oh well... I am still Native with or with out it, and LUMBEE for that matter. As some one pointed out, I think SingerDad, oh how some tribes are comprised of different or other tribes mixed together in a single location, band together and gather their new name from something significant of that area....Hince the Lumber River....formerly know as the Lumbee river.....But on the real, come across with some hard, no bullsh$$ documents, pictures, and then we can make this an issue....peace...and thank you to those that are not buying in or adding to these idiots egos......
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:44 AM   #28
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One Day Soon

What gets me about "some" of these Tuscarora is that they keep bringing up the same argument about the orginial 22. So you mean to tell me that back in the 1930's their were only 22 "REAL" indians and guess what the always honest and truthful GOVERNMENT find them,,, WOW!!!!! But I digress. With that in mind I am suppose to believe that 56,000 people who claim to be Lumbee today, came from just 22 people in just over 70 years.... Man this is getting better and better.... On the real I dont have a problem with anybody claiming Tuscarora, I got a few friends who claim it and it is alright to me. Never once have I tried to talk them into "becoming" a Lum. But what seems to rub me wrong is all of these other Tuscarora who believe that it is their mission in life to make a group of thousands change their whole ideas and beliefs. Never once have I seen a thread on this site,,(and I visit alot) were some Lumbee was trying to convince everyone in cyber space that the Tuscarora of NC were fake. So will you please focus your attention on something else that means something to somebody and lend a helping hand to someone in need.
Now,, I might be mistaken but I believe that their is a sentence in the legislation that has been brought forth in the Senate and House dealing with our recognition that says that any group who does not claim Lumbee will not fall under this act. I will have to check but I HOPE and PRAY that this is the case,, then maybe,, just maybe some of these Tuscarora leaders will quit holding me and my people accountable for something that happen way before I was born.
Singerdad I am happy that you had a chance to meet our ambassadors face to face. I hope that SOME of the Leaders of the Eastern Band who think that we are just " a group of people" had a chance to also meet them. And then maybe, just maybe one day soon the Lumbee and Cherokee leaders will meet in Charlotte on a Saturday morning to sit and eat breakfast and talk like friends and treat each other with the utmost RESPECT. And the Tuscaroras are invited too.


Thanks and May God bless all of you, even those who want to see me and my people fail.


John
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:26 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwaterlum
All I had to do was look at the title and knew that there was some IDIOT but I guess everyone is welcomed to there opinion..but for future references make sure you dont include everyone in your crazy a$$ hypothesis And adding more gasoline to the fire that already exists with my beloved Lumbee nation... But if there is any truth to these thoughts of someone that has too much time on there hands, get some hard evidence...ROCK HARD, not no his momma, and her granddad.....the infamous Henry Berry Lowery/Lowrie/Lowry....come on now, how is someone going to be able to trace homeslice that far back, if most of the time no one really knows how he spelled his last name?????? And further more, who gives a you know what, what the government says or even thinks.......I sure dont. I mean come on now Federal Recognition would be very beneficial to alot of Lumbee Natives that need it, the elderly, and the sick, and hey I could really use my schooling to be paid for, but if not oh well... I am still Native with or with out it, and LUMBEE for that matter. As some one pointed out, I think SingerDad, oh how some tribes are comprised of different or other tribes mixed together in a single location, band together and gather their new name from something significant of that area....Hince the Lumber River....formerly know as the Lumbee river.....But on the real, come across with some hard, no bullsh$$ documents, pictures, and then we can make this an issue....peace...and thank you to those that are not buying in or adding to these idiots egos......
Chwe'n,
I an see that you know alot about Lumbee history by your remarks, but if you would like some hard no bullsh$$ documents, pictures, and then we can make this an issue", type of things, come to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCTuscarora/

and you will see all that you can handle, or can't handle. It all depends on how open your mind is, and just how much you have been conditioned to think the way you do.

As far as the other things you said, those questions are answered there aswell.

By the way, are you by any chance LOTE? "on the real" lol

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.O.T.E
What gets me about "some" of these Tuscarora is that they keep bringing up the same argument about the orginial 22. So you mean to tell me that back in the 1930's their were only 22 "REAL" indians and guess what the always honest and truthful GOVERNMENT find them,,, WOW!!!!! But I digress. With that in mind I am suppose to believe that 56,000 people who claim to be Lumbee today, came from just 22 people in just over 70 years.... Man this is getting better and better.... On the real I dont have a problem with anybody claiming Tuscarora, I got a few friends who claim it and it is alright to me. Never once have I tried to talk them into "becoming" a Lum. But what seems to rub me wrong is all of these other Tuscarora who believe that it is their mission in life to make a group of thousands change their whole ideas and beliefs. Never once have I seen a thread on this site,,(and I visit alot) were some Lumbee was trying to convince everyone in cyber space that the Tuscarora of NC were fake. So will you please focus your attention on something else that means something to somebody and lend a helping hand to someone in need.
Now,, I might be mistaken but I believe that their is a sentence in the legislation that has been brought forth in the Senate and House dealing with our recognition that says that any group who does not claim Lumbee will not fall under this act. I will have to check but I HOPE and PRAY that this is the case,, then maybe,, just maybe some of these Tuscarora leaders will quit holding me and my people accountable for something that happen way before I was born.
Singerdad I am happy that you had a chance to meet our ambassadors face to face. I hope that SOME of the Leaders of the Eastern Band who think that we are just " a group of people" had a chance to also meet them. And then maybe, just maybe one day soon the Lumbee and Cherokee leaders will meet in Charlotte on a Saturday morning to sit and eat breakfast and talk like friends and treat each other with the utmost RESPECT. And the Tuscaroras are invited too.


Thanks and May God bless all of you, even those who want to see me and my people fail.


John
Chwe'n,
That last post goes for you also John. Come and join and you can make up your own mind from there. No don't have to say a word if you don't want to there.

By the way, the "22" were only the "lucky" ones back then. There should have been several hundred recognized atleast. You can find this info also there.

Ooneh,
Chris

P.S. the language in the Lumbee bill is just as you stated regarding other groups who don't claim Lumbee.
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Chwe'n,
I an see that you know alot about Lumbee history by your remarks, but if you would like some hard no bullsh$$ documents, pictures, and then we can make this an issue", type of things, come to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCTuscarora/

and you will see all that you can handle, or can't handle. It all depends on how open your mind is, and just how much you have been conditioned to think the way you do.

As far as the other things you said, those questions are answered there aswell.

By the way, are you by any chance LOTE? "on the real" lol

Ooneh,
Chris
Chris - LOTE and DarkWaterLum are two different people - FYI.

I signed up for your board that you continue to invite people to almost 2 weeks ago, and have been awaiting approval - what's up with that? :dontknow: Please let me know the status and feel free to PM me.
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Old 12-04-2005, 11:09 AM   #32
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Exclamation Indigenous....

It is no wonder Native Americans have so little political clout in this country; instead of unity, being joined by a common First Nations ancestry, we spend too much time taking pot shots at each other over who is Redder, who's name is original, who occupied what patch of land first, who didn't assimilate into the invading culture and stayed 'pure'.... makes me sick; this one upsman crap. By participating in this activity (of ridiculing other tribal people) you just play into the hands of those non-Natives who would like us to disappear from the tapestry this continent is woven from; you become part of the prevailing racist agenda. Shame on you!
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Old 12-04-2005, 12:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Spirit
It is no wonder Native Americans have so little political clout in this country; instead of unity, being joined by a common First Nations ancestry, we spend too much time taking pot shots at each other over who is Redder, who's name is original, who occupied what patch of land first, who didn't assimilate into the invading culture and stayed 'pure'.... makes me sick; this one upsman crap. By participating in this activity (of ridiculing other tribal people) you just play into the hands of those non-Natives who would like us to disappear from the tapestry this continent is woven from; you become part of the prevailing racist agenda. Shame on you!
Chwe'n,
I agree with everything you said River Spirit, but, in this particular situation you don't know what your talking about. If you knew or took the time to understand what is being said, you would realize that what we are saying "is" trying to bring unity to our people here. We are only trying to teach people what ha been hidden from them their whole lives, and their ancestors as well.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-04-2005, 12:59 PM   #34
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Thank you for your PM for my sign in to the Tuscarora Yahoo Board. I appreciate it.

I think this situation is very tense, and I would love to see a resolution to it. I pray about it alot, because I live here in this community, among the Lumbee and Tuscarora. I consider all of them my family. I love them all. I really pray, that in my son's father's life time, this will be resolved, for his sake - but if not, I pray it is resolved in my son's time. The people of this community are incredible. Some of the most loving, genuine, and giving people I have ever encountered. I am from a different tribe, but the people here treat me like family, and I have made it my home.

So - all that said - I just pray that when everyone gets their say, that there is resolution. If it is to agree to disagree, ok. If something is learned - all of us grow from that. What I pray does not happen is dissention or division from these talks. I really want all of us to work hard to not create any more division among us all. It is ok to be different...it is ok to walk to the beat of a different drum...not all of us walk to the same beat and we need to be able to respect each other's rhythm.

That is it - carry on and be blessed...
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' Ace
Chris - LOTE and DarkWaterLum are two different people - FYI.

I signed up for your board that you continue to invite people to almost 2 weeks ago, and have been awaiting approval - what's up with that? :dontknow: Please let me know the status and feel free to PM me.
Chwe'n,
I have sent the invite again Smokin...You are the third person that said they have tried to get on but couldnt in the last week. There were a few that show up to be approved, but that is all

Anyway, welcome aboard.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-05-2005, 09:57 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Chwe'n,
I agree with everything you said River Spirit, but, in this particular situation you don't know what your talking about. If you knew or took the time to understand what is being said, you would realize that what we are saying "is" trying to bring unity to our people here. We are only trying to teach people what ha been hidden from them their whole lives, and their ancestors as well.

Ooneh,
Chris
Thank you. I applaud your apparent motives--to an extent. But think it rather condescending of you to assume that a 'People' are woefully ignorant of the facts and that you are the person to set them straight. There is a fine line between 'bringing unity' and creating division. I have plenty of time to 'understand' what is being said. Your assumption of my ignorance is another flaw in your delivery or perception of self importance. People aren't as stupid as you think, what they choose to do with knowledge is another, and their business.
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Old 12-05-2005, 03:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Chwe'n,
I agree with everything you said River Spirit, but, in this particular situation you don't know what your talking about. If you knew or took the time to understand what is being said, you would realize that what we are saying "is" trying to bring unity to our people here. We are only trying to teach people what ha been hidden from them their whole lives, and their ancestors as well.

Ooneh,
Chris
You are trying to unite them all to believing they are tuscarora like you guys do. But they are all united as Lumbee, so are'nt you in a way little by little disrupting unity instead? It's almost akin to stealing the other teams players ROFLMAO!!
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Old 12-05-2005, 05:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Spirit
Thank you. I applaud your apparent motives--to an extent. But think it rather condescending of you to assume that a 'People' are woefully ignorant of the facts and that you are the person to set them straight. There is a fine line between 'bringing unity' and creating division. I have plenty of time to 'understand' what is being said. Your assumption of my ignorance is another flaw in your delivery or perception of self importance. People aren't as stupid as you think, what they choose to do with knowledge is another, and their business.
Chwe'n,
Your welcome. I think you are giving me too much credit. Nevertheless, regardless of how hard that is to believe, being "ignorant of the facts" is exactly what has, and still happening. We are only giving "our people" Lumbee or not, a choice in their destiny. Something that has never been available for the last 120 years especially. Regardless of what people do with the information that we share, at least the info has been seen and absorbed. From there it is up to them what to do with it.

Also, I sense that you were turned off by what I said about "your ignorance". If you will read carefully what I said, I said that you didn't know what you were talking about with "this particular situation" only. Am I wrong in this "assumption? If so, please teach me something that I don't know about "this" situation.

As far as being "the person to set them straight", again, I just happen to be one of many who attempt to teach people a different version of "our" history here. I am nobody.

So you don't think I have the right to teach my own family what I know, and what I believe? Is this what you are saying? I am a cousin to thousands of those who accept the name Lumbee, so I can't help my own people? Give me a break.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-05-2005, 05:45 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Blackbear
You are trying to unite them all to believing they are tuscarora like you guys do. But they are all united as Lumbee, so are'nt you in a way little by little disrupting unity instead? It's almost akin to stealing the other teams players ROFLMAO!!
Chwe'n,
No, Blackbear, like I have numerous times here already, and on the yahoo group, we are only giving them a choice. Nothing more, and nothing less. There is no way that every person on the Lumbee rolls will change. Probably not even a tenth of their number will ever even think about it. It doesn't matter to us, if none of them switched to claiming Tuscarora. If they learn what we have as info and still stay Lumbee, then they are exactly where they should be.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-05-2005, 07:41 PM   #40
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I'm a Lumbee.

No, yer not.

Yes, I am.

No, yer not.

Neah, neah, neah, neah, neah ! I'm a Lumbee.

No yer not.

Yes I am.

No yer not. I'm telling my Mom what you said.

So what! I'm still a Lum.










And so on, and so on, and so on................................................ ...............







No yer not.......................... so there! I win.
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