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Old 12-10-2005, 11:28 PM   #61
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oh boy, now they're pulling out the big guns, I better watch out!
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:14 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
So, the Arikaras aren't a nation? The Mandans aren't a nation? I'm sure they'd beg to differ with you on that one.

The Three Affiliated Tribes are composed of three seperate nations put together for the sake of the government only having to recognize one entity. They aren't a historical group. The same with the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe - a part of the Lakota Nation, but comprised of individuals coming from four seperate bands of that nation.

I never said nations and tribes were the same thing. For instance, the Lakota Nation is comprised of tribes such as the Rosebud Sioux Tribe, Oglala Sioux Tribe, Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, etc....now, the members of these tribes are also members of the Lakota Nation which is further seperated into the Oceti Sakowin (Oglala, Sicangu, Oohenumpa, etc.).

My point was, the Lumbees fall into the same category of being under a name that was not historically theirs. They are a people of several heritages. There was no Lumbee Indians back in the day. Everyone knows that. I think that the fact that they refer to themselves as Lumbees and not as Cheraw or whatever else they are is why they have legitimacy problems within Indian Country. I hardly ever see someone refer to themselves as a Cheyenne River Sioux, but rather they'd refer to themselves as Hunkpapa Lakota or Oohenumpa Lakota. Hope that makes sense.
Nations? Tribes? Please re-read Singer Dad's post. He makes sense. But really, what's the big deal? It's all semantics!
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Spirit
Nations? Tribes? Please re-read Singer Dad's post. He makes sense. But really, what's the big deal? It's all semantics!
Chwe'n,
Yes, it is only semantics...to a certain point. I don't think anyone meant any harm is saying that there is a difference in a "Nation" and a "tribe", but a far as the U.S. federal government, and the international community is concerned, there is a very big difference.

Historically, only "Nations" have the authority to negotiate treaties with other "Nations". Granted, there may have been treaties signed with certain "tribes" here on Turtle Island, but that was probably few and far between.

Many Native Nations today refuse to be referred to as a "tribe", believing that that designation will belittle their position in regards to fighting for their treatie rights. The Six Nations is a prime example, aswell as the Navajo Nation, and so on. Many of these are nationalistic is their thinking, which also serves as a reason for their use of Nation.Why the Three Affiliated Tribes chose that designation, I don't know, but as a member of one of them said, they do see themselves as a "Nation", which in my own opinion is great. I personally think all should demand this designation.

Anyway, there goes my two cents..

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:51 AM   #64
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Roskerah, she just did'nt get what Singer Dad was trying to say and is coming off snotty about it. Newbies do that sometimes.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
Roskerah, she just did'nt get what Singer Dad was trying to say and is coming off snotty about it. Newbies do that sometimes.
WTF? Please don't apologize for me. I wasn't being snotty, I was making a statement of opinion like everyone else, and agreeing with Singer Dad. Nor am I a newbie. I've been coming on this site for five years.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:07 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
Roskerah, she just did'nt get what Singer Dad was trying to say and is coming off snotty about it. Newbies do that sometimes.
Not quite a newbie. And I got exactly what singerdad was asking, that is why I answered his question. The difference is, the NATIONS he asked about are NATIONS made up of confederated TRIBES that have always existed. As far as the Lumbees, you all seem to be discussing their history as a TRIBE. So there is no comparison between the Lumbees issue and the nations singerdad asked about.

Nation is a political construct. Tribe is family. Federal recognition won't tell you who your family is, and you shouldn't need it to.

Roskerah got it.
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:57 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Spirit
WTF? Please don't apologize for me. I wasn't being snotty, I was making a statement of opinion like everyone else, and agreeing with Singer Dad. Nor am I a newbie. I've been coming on this site for five years.
LOL I was'nt talking about you!
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:05 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullberrybaby
Not quite a newbie. And I got exactly what singerdad was asking, that is why I answered his question. The difference is, the NATIONS he asked about are NATIONS made up of confederated TRIBES that have always existed. As far as the Lumbees, you all seem to be discussing their history as a TRIBE. So there is no comparison between the Lumbees issue and the nations singerdad asked about.

Nation is a political construct. Tribe is family. Federal recognition won't tell you who your family is, and you shouldn't need it to.

Roskerah got it.
not everyone in that area agrees on their origins and some say tuscarora, some say cheraw, some even say other than that... so Lumbee lumps them all together cause they are all related to each other anyhow. There IS actually a comparison, but the main difference is that the ones singerdad mentions are federally recognized nations.
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:34 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
LOL I was'nt talking about you!
Thank you BB; 'cause my feelings were hurt . I kept thinking, geez, I know I can get snotty but this time I was so tame!!



For what it is worth, I had to click on the link six times before Paul's server would take me to BB's message from 'New Posts'. What's up with that!!
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Old 12-15-2005, 03:10 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbeeGirl10
I'm not sure what your problem is with Lumbee people? But I think you need to do more research before you go and try to discredit us. The government did not make the Lumbee Tribe. White people did not create the Lumbee People. You need to go back a little farther and you'll see that the Lumbee people are from the cheraw, and probably other small tribes, such as the keyauwee and other eastern siouan tribes. The Cherwa were not "Wiped out" in the 1700's.Why dont you read some more books and you'll soon find out that you are wrong. Try reading, "The only land I know" by Adolph Dial, you might learn something. Let me go on to say you should be ashamed we are all indian people and we all got mistreated, we should be sticking together instead of tearing eachother apart.
Chwe'n,
Do you still feel this way Lumbee Girl, given the fact that you have seen this new information now? You can respond in private if you want.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:06 PM   #71
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dayuuum watever happend to hatin' on da cherokees?? ayye (some people need to get a life)
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:21 AM   #72
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Yes I still feel that way! I have seen no new info to change my mind. I think you Lumbee Haters have nothing else to do. And you also have no proof to back up what you say. I have joined your yahoo group, but told I would recive a email when I was welcome, I still have not seen that email, or the doc's you mention. My Grandmother was a Lowry Girl and her great gradfather was HB Lowry's brother. I can trace my family tree back to James Lowry the Judge from Va. he was a white man not a tuscarora! No where in My family tree does it say we came from the tuscarora. I'm sure that there are Lumbee's that came from tuscarora's familes, when they all joined up to keep from being killed but that's probably where it ened. Not every Lumbee now is from Tuscarora. If you agree with that T.O.T.E. guy about all the Lumbee's not even being indian peoples, then you guys are just not getting it. Your forgetting one thing I have stated. We are all still indian people, we all got mistreated and still do, to this day. We should not be trash talking one another, we should be trying to help one another!

LumbeeGirl10






Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Chwe'n,
Do you still feel this way Lumbee Girl, given the fact that you have seen this new information now? You can respond in private if you want.

Ooneh,
Chris
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:01 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbeeGirl10
Yes I still feel that way! I have seen no new info to change my mind. I think you Lumbee Haters have nothing else to do. And you also have no proof to back up what you say. I have joined your yahoo group, but told I would recive a email when I was welcome, I still have not seen that email, or the doc's you mention. My Grandmother was a Lowry Girl and her great gradfather was HB Lowry's brother. I can trace my family tree back to James Lowry the Judge from Va. he was a white man not a tuscarora! No where in My family tree does it say we came from the tuscarora. I'm sure that there are Lumbee's that came from tuscarora's familes, when they all joined up to keep from being killed but that's probably where it ened. Not every Lumbee now is from Tuscarora. If you agree with that T.O.T.E. guy about all the Lumbee's not even being indian peoples, then you guys are just not getting it. Your forgetting one thing I have stated. We are all still indian people, we all got mistreated and still do, to this day. We should not be trash talking one another, we should be trying to help one another!

LumbeeGirl10
Well then, if you havent even looked at the information, it is not my fault. You must not want to learn anything new, and since you seem to already know what you want to, please forget everything I have said.

Good luck with your life.

Ooneh
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:07 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbeeGirl10
Yes I still feel that way! I have seen no new info to change my mind. I think you Lumbee Haters have nothing else to do. And you also have no proof to back up what you say. I have joined your yahoo group, but told I would recive a email when I was welcome, I still have not seen that email, or the doc's you mention. My Grandmother was a Lowry Girl and her great gradfather was HB Lowry's brother. I can trace my family tree back to James Lowry the Judge from Va. he was a white man not a tuscarora! No where in My family tree does it say we came from the tuscarora. I'm sure that there are Lumbee's that came from tuscarora's familes, when they all joined up to keep from being killed but that's probably where it ened. Not every Lumbee now is from Tuscarora. If you agree with that T.O.T.E. guy about all the Lumbee's not even being indian peoples, then you guys are just not getting it. Your forgetting one thing I have stated. We are all still indian people, we all got mistreated and still do, to this day. We should not be trash talking one another, we should be trying to help one another!

LumbeeGirl10
Well then, if you havent even looked at the information, it is not my fault. You must not want to learn anything new, and since you seem to already know what you want to, please forget everything I have said.

Good luck with your life.

Ooneh
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:47 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Well then, if you havent even looked at the information, it is not my fault. You must not want to learn anything new, and since you seem to already know what you want to, please forget everything I have said.

Good luck with your life.

Ooneh
Did you read what she said? She said she did'nt get a confirmation letter that she was accepted to your yahoo group therefore she has not seen the evidence you have because it cannot be viewed.
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Old 12-16-2005, 04:53 PM   #76
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New food for thought?......


Jana, the performing artist who bills herself as Lumbee Indian, has just come out with a new Christmas CD titled, "American Indian Christmas."

In this album (according to an article in Indian Country Today):

"The album ''American Indian Christmas,'' sung by pop star Jana, presents 10 of the most familiar Christmas songs - each in a different tribal tongue. From ''O Holy Night'' in Navajo to ''Amazing Grace'' in Jana's own Lumbee,....

....In an interview with Indian Country Today, she described the time-consuming effort of finding translations. ''We had to call Germany,'' she said, to consult on one cut. The Lumbee version of ''Amazing Grace'' was a special labor of love, she said, because the language of that North Carolina nation, the largest tribe in the country without full federal recognition, is still in a process of recovery."


Whatcha' think?
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Old 12-16-2005, 04:59 PM   #77
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Yeah I saw that at www.jananation.com wtf? is one of the songs in German or something??
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Old 12-16-2005, 05:00 PM   #78
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You need to listen!

I'm not saying that it is your fault! I have not SEEN the info at your Tuscarora group. Who ever is in charge of the group has not exepted me yet. I would like to see the info. I'm not sure that it would change my mind. And I'm not quite sure what your problem is. You aslo claim to be from the Lowry's but you deny the Lumbee as your own. So my advice is why dont you leave the Lumbee People alone. You cant change eveyones mind. Everyone has a opinion, it's not your right to take it away. It is not that I dont want to learn anything new, I love to learn new things about my people.

LumbeeGirl10




Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskerah
Well then, if you havent even looked at the information, it is not my fault. You must not want to learn anything new, and since you seem to already know what you want to, please forget everything I have said.

Good luck with your life.

Ooneh
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Old 12-16-2005, 05:08 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonah04
Yeah I saw that at www.jananation.com wtf? is one of the songs in German or something??

Colonah,

*L Heck, I don't know.

She is playin' in my town tomorrow night. I am kinda' tempted to go check her out.

.... but she played in my town last year. According to my friends who attended, "The crowd wasn't very big and Jana insulted the Indian audience when they weren't giving her the applause she needed."

They ain't going back tomorrow.

Just passin' on what I was told.
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Old 12-16-2005, 09:55 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbeeGirl10
I'm not saying that it is your fault! I have not SEEN the info at your Tuscarora group. Who ever is in charge of the group has not exepted me yet. I would like to see the info. I'm not sure that it would change my mind. And I'm not quite sure what your problem is. You aslo claim to be from the Lowry's but you deny the Lumbee as your own. So my advice is why dont you leave the Lumbee People alone. You cant change eveyones mind. Everyone has a opinion, it's not your right to take it away. It is not that I dont want to learn anything new, I love to learn new things about my people.

LumbeeGirl10
Chwe'n,
I tell you what, you don't have to join the group, although I already accepted a "mato_koda_april" on the 10th of this month. Is that not you?

Anyway, I have opened the group to allow anyone to see the archives this weekend. You can download to your hearts content. Again what you do with it is your business.

This goes for anyone. Here is the link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCTusc...%20the%20past/

If that doesnt work: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCTuscarora/

go here and goto the file section.
in the robeson county indian history section you will find the oldest documents, but look at everything.

Ooneh,
Chris
__________________
"Find out what people will submit to, and you will have found the exact amount of injustices and wrongs the people will allow to have imposed on them" ..Fredrick Douglas

Last edited by Roskerah; 12-16-2005 at 10:02 PM.. Reason: mispelling
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