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Old 03-05-2004, 09:26 AM   #1
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Native couple among first for same-sex marriage

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URL: http://www.indianz.com/News/archive/000517.asp


Native couple among first for same-sex marriage
Friday, March 5, 2004

When an Oregon county announced it would issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, Paul Lumley and Phillipe Hillaire, who have been together for 18 years, were among those in line.

Lumley is a member of the Yakama Nation. Hillaire is a member of the Lummi Nation. Both tribes are based in Washington.

Lumley told The Oregonian that the couple will have a Native ceremony in honor of their commitment. The couple received a license on Wednesday.

Multnomah County in Oregon, the city of San Francisco and two mayors in New York have been issuing same-sex marriage licenses despite objections from legal officials, conservative groups and President Bush, who has proposed a constitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man and a woman. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) said he opposes the amendment and wouldn't mind if voters revoked a state law against same-sex marriage.

A county in New Mexico that is home to several tribes issued licenses but was told to stop by the state attorney general.

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New niche for wedding business (The Oregonian 3/4)

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Old 03-05-2004, 02:37 PM   #2
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I support civil unions between "whoever" and "whomever". I oppose any type of marriage being defined or endorsed by the government - gay, straight, whatever. Marriage is a RELIGIOUS designation, therefor the government needs to just get its nose out of the marriage business entirely. If a couple wants to go through a religious ceremony, let them be recognized by friends and fellow believers (of whatever they may believe) as "Married". But let the government just see it is a generic "civil union".

Just my 2c.
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Old 03-05-2004, 05:47 PM   #3
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Question

Is San francisco not issuing marriages no more?are the gays and lesys who did get married legally married?
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Old 03-10-2004, 09:56 PM   #4
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I don't think anyone was saying that you can't get married religiously or tribally or however you want - they just said you have to be same sex to have it done LEGALLY. I think uh, one reason is to do with survivor benefits and probate. What if the people who are getting married weren't openly gay early in life and at one time had a wife and children - now they are getting married to a member of the same sex and if something happened to this person wouldn't that be a mess
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Old 03-11-2004, 04:38 PM   #5
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Old 03-11-2004, 05:58 PM   #6
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Man I can't believe it for once Wakalapi, I am going to disagree with you, but I still love you man! I think that Human beings should be able to marry whatever adult human being that they want to marry. It just isn't right to not allow Gay folks to get married when straight people can. In the U.S. we are supposed to be a nation that beleives in seperation of Church and State, and since the opposition to Gay marriages are religious than it is not right for the government to make decisions about Gay marriages based on religious reasons. Honestly what other reasons are there for it? And here's a thought how would the stupid religous groups like for marriage and all the rights that go along with it to be taken away from them because it is a religous institution and since there is supposed to be separation of church and state perhaps the state will decide that it can no longer grant marriages to anyone because it is a religous thing and they cannot support one particular religous belief? HM... something to think about.


OH and here is another fun fact..... over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce....so much for sanctity of marriage!


I have a dear friend who just got Married to his husband in San Francisco and I am so happy that they were able to do this and wish them all the happiness in the world. As well as all of the other couples.
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Old 03-11-2004, 06:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by CactusButt
Man I can't believe it for once Wakalapi, I am going to disagree with you, but I still love you man! I think that Human beings should be able to marry whatever adult human being that they want to marry. It just isn't right to not allow Gay folks to get married when straight people can. In the U.S. we are supposed to be a nation that beleives in seperation of Church and State, and since the opposition to Gay marriages are religious than it is not right for the government to make decisions about Gay marriages based on religious reasons. Honestly what other reasons are there for it? And here's a thought how would the stupid religous groups like for marriage and all the rights that go along with it to be taken away from them because it is a religous institution and since there is supposed to be separation of church and state perhaps the state will decide that it can no longer grant marriages to anyone because it is a religous thing and they cannot support one particular religous belief? HM... something to think about.


OH and here is another fun fact..... over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce....so much for sanctity of marriage!


I have a dear friend who just got Married to his husband in San Francisco and I am so happy that they were able to do this and wish them all the happiness in the world. As well as all of the other couples.
Get that cactus out your butt. I'm siding with the gov on this. Leave marriage for the good of MAN and WOMAN. My 2c.
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Old 03-11-2004, 06:23 PM   #8
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Originally posted by NAPEW
Get that cactus out your butt. I'm siding with the gov on this. Leave marriage for the good of MAN and WOMAN. My 2c.
Why? Just curious? I've been trying to get the cactus out of my butt for years now, but I'm getting used to being all prickly! haha jk;) :p Seriously though, and with all respect, why do you think we should leave marriage for the good of Man&Woman?
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Old 03-11-2004, 09:11 PM   #9
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Originally posted by CactusButt
Man I can't believe it for once Wakalapi, I am going to disagree with you, but I still love you man! I think that Human beings should be able to marry whatever adult human being that they want to marry. It just isn't right to not allow Gay folks to get married when straight people can. In the U.S. we are supposed to be a nation that beleives in seperation of Church and State, and since the opposition to Gay marriages are religious than it is not right for the government to make decisions about Gay marriages based on religious reasons. Honestly what other reasons are there for it? And here's a thought how would the stupid religous groups like for marriage and all the rights that go along with it to be taken away from them because it is a religous institution and since there is supposed to be separation of church and state perhaps the state will decide that it can no longer grant marriages to anyone because it is a religous thing and they cannot support one particular religous belief? HM... something to think about.

Yeah, but what if...after so much repression - alot of these gay couples are just getting married to speak out and it's really not about the love and committment they're supposed to have for each other. Thats what I see on the news, that they are doing things to speak out against the president. Well, is that a reason to get MARRIED? And do you think those will end in divorce? And if they've been allowed to adopt or have children, who will get custody???

OH and here is another fun fact..... over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce....so much for sanctity of marriage!


I have a dear friend who just got Married to his husband in San Francisco and I am so happy that they were able to do this and wish them all the happiness in the world. As well as all of the other couples.
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Old 03-12-2004, 03:22 AM   #10
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ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS IS HOMOS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR ALONG TIME AND IS'NT THIS A FREE COUNTRY???? AS ONE WOULD SAY LOVE ALL PEOPLE I WANT TO MARK MY SPOT AT THE PEARLY GATES.
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Old 03-15-2004, 10:10 PM   #11
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You can't go and redefine words. Marraige is defined legally as a union between a man and a woman. Once you change that definition to mean a union between whomever regardless of sexual preference, then where do you draw the line? Are polygamists allowed to marry many different women because that is their sexual preference? What if an older man has a sexual preference for a young boy, maybe his adopted son, and he wants to marry him; is he going to be allowed to? (There are already marraiges between old men and young girls.) There will be no clear definition of who is to be alowed to amrry and who isn't. it needs to be left the way it is becuase that is the way it always was. Homosexuals, I believe should be allowed Civil Unions and nothing more. We all have the right to choose to be homosexual. Those who choose to do so assume the privleges and the non-privleges that come along with it. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Homosexuals. I have a good freind who is openly gay. I am proud of him that he can be open and not be ashamed of it. I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, however. I support Steve, not his lifestyle, and that's ok. It's like if you have a Muslim friend and you are not Muslim. You support and respect that friend, and you may respect their religion, but you do not support it.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:10 AM   #12
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Hummingrose,
I'll take your argument and raise you mine:


Here we go again with, "Why change something that has alway's been this way?" Wasn't that said about slavery and then later about segregation and etc., etc., etc.? When we are talking about consenting adults who are in love with each other then I do not see any reasons why we should not allow them to commit themselves unto one another legally. All these people keep on saying how immoral it is for homosexuals to marry. Isn't it more immoral for homosexuals to be living together and sleeping together outside the bounds of marriage. Sure, in a lot of religions homosexuality is a sin, but we are talking about civil unions between two consenting adults that allow them the same rights and privileges that we take for granted every single day. I believe that marriage is sacred, I also believe that divorce is immoral and a sin as well, and I believe that abortion is cruel, wrong, immoral and murder and a sin. What I believe and what everyone else believes doesn't alway's match, but we live in a country where everyone is supposed to be equal, and not allowing certain people to legally marry and live in harmony does not seem like equality to me. Especially since the main argument is a religous one and this country is a separation of church and state government. How is it possible that one religion can dictate what an entire nation does when that nation is not a religous organization? Anyway's these are just two of my cents and my two cents is all I can afford right now.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by CactusButt
Hummingrose, I'll take your argument and raise you mine: Here we go again with, "Why change something that has alway's been this way?" Wasn't that said about slavery and then later about segregation and etc., etc., etc.? When we are talking about consenting adults who are in love with each other then I do not see any reasons why we should not allow them to commit themselves unto one another legally. All these people keep on saying how immoral it is for homosexuals to marry. Isn't it more immoral for homosexuals to be living together and sleeping together outside the bounds of marriage. Sure, in a lot of religions homosexuality is a sin, but we are talking about civil unions between two consenting adults that allow them the same rights and privileges that we take for granted every single day. I believe that marriage is sacred, I also believe that divorce is immoral and a sin as well, and I believe that abortion is cruel, wrong, immoral and murder and a sin. What I believe and what everyone else believes doesn't alway's match, but we live in a country where everyone is supposed to be equal, and not allowing certain people to legally marry and live in harmony does not seem like equality to me. Especially since the main argument is a religous one and this country is a separation of church and state government. How is it possible that one religion can dictate what an entire nation does when that nation is not a religous organization? Anyway's these are just two of my cents and my two cents is all I can afford right now.
First of all I never said "it has always been that way so leave it." What I said was where do you draw the line? Look at my arguments again. You will see that there are no religious innuendos. Like I said, if you use religion as an argument, you will be eaten alive. I know better. I know the seperation of church and state, and I am respecting it. Like I said, you can't allow a new extremist group to get married, and not allow another, ie. polygamists. Where do you draw the line? I simply said, do not move the line, keep it where it is. It has suited the human population for many generations, and will continue to suit them. I have no reservations about Civil Unions. If homosexuals want to "marry," then fine, go through the religious ceremony.
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Old 03-16-2004, 02:33 PM   #14
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Hrose,
you are not making any sense here. You have no problem w/ civil unions? That is what the homosexuals want a legal marriage is a civil union between two consenting adults. HELLLOOO just in case you were confused Homosexuals are not a new extremist group. They have alway's existed. You are right, you didn't say anything about religion, but if you don't back up your arguments with religion then what do you back them up with..... Not wanting to change something that has alway's been that way just because it has alway's been that way? You did say that. re read your own post. So if that isn't your argument then what is? Because you don't think something should be changed because you don't like it? Well that is not the way a democracy is run. This is just a good healthy debate by the way, no harm is meant just think people need to expand their way of thinking on this matter. I think this is a civil rights issue and should be dealt with as such. Changing the law to state that two consenting adults regardless of gender can marry one another is not going to destroy the U.S. of A.:Chatter
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Old 03-16-2004, 02:40 PM   #15
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ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS IS HOMOS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR ALONG TIME AND IS'NT THIS A FREE COUNTRY???? AS ONE WOULD SAY LOVE ALL PEOPLE I WANT TO MARK MY SPOT AT THE PEARLY GATES.
oh my gosh i thought usa was a free country
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Old 03-16-2004, 02:41 PM   #16
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SORRRRYYYY III MIZZZZZ READ IT OK
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Old 03-16-2004, 02:43 PM   #17
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I HAVE A GAY FRIEND AND U KNOW WHAT IF HE WERE EVER TO GET MARRIED I WOULD PLAN HIS WHOLE DAMN SHINDIG IF U PPL OUT THERE GOT A PROBLEM WITH GAYS WELL THAS YOUR PROB IF YAH CANT DEAL WITH IT GO TALK TO YOUR FUGGEN SHRINK
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Old 03-16-2004, 02:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by CactusButt
You are right, you didn't say anything about religion, but if you don't back up your arguments with religion then what do you back them up with..... Not wanting to change something that has alway's been that way just because it has alway's been that way? You did say that. re read your own post. So if that isn't your argument then what is? Because you don't think something should be changed because you don't like it?
Well, if you can comprehend what I am saying in my posts then you will know what my argument is. Where do you draw the line. By the way, they want to change the meaning to mean a union between people regardless of sexual orientation. So again, where do you draw the line? I don't like the idea of gay marriage, but, like I said re-evaluate my arguments, I didn't base my bias in why it should not be allowed. Also, legal government recongized Civil Unions are legal, and do provide benifits for those who opt that way.
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Old 03-16-2004, 02:50 PM   #19
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Originally posted by ~>[email protected]~HoNeY <~
I HAVE A GAY FRIEND AND U KNOW WHAT IF HE WERE EVER TO GET MARRIED I WOULD PLAN HIS WHOLE DAMN SHINDIG IF U PPL OUT THERE GOT A PROBLEM WITH GAYS WELL THAS YOUR PROB IF YAH CANT DEAL WITH IT GO TALK TO YOUR FUGGEN SHRINK
I don't have a problem with gay people. I have many friends who are gay. I just don't support a legal, government recognized MARRIAGE, between gay people. A marriage ceremony is not the same as a marriage license. One can have a homosexual marriage and hold a Civil Union.
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:57 PM   #20
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Hummingrose,
No offense love, in fact I'm enjoying arguing with you, but uhm.... you are not very convincing. What I am asking for here is valid, logical reasoning behind why Gay people should not be allowed to go through the same process as straight people when they want to marry each other. So far your posts have shown me no substantial arguments as to a solid logical reason. As far as the new law and having it state that Marriage is to be redefined as a union between people regardless of sexual orientation. Do you have direct access to the entire ammendment and are able to tell from that that it will allow for poligamy and adult/child marriages? I do beleive that it will state more along the lines of 2 consenting adults regardless of sexual orientation and this is a good thing. Where do you draw the line? You draw the line at no discrimination that is where I draw the line. If you really had no problems w/ all these things you say you have no problems with then why do you have a problem with people who do not wish to be discriminated against wanting to change a word so that it doesn't discriminate against them? It really isn't the word that will be changed it is the definition of the word that will be broadened to allow people to stop discriminating and being discriminated against.


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