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Old 02-24-2009, 12:26 AM   #1
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Natives converting to other religions

We all know that many natives are Christians.. but what about when natives start becoming other relgions...

native buddhist, native hindu, native muslims, native jews,etc.etc.etc..

Thoughts on this ?

I have heard many christian natives say that there is enough similiarity between Christianity and their take-on their tribe's religionthat they feel they can ecompass BOTH...

..what about other religions?

Chime in, but keep it respectful..please
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:34 PM   #2
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Hey IlnuSoldier,

Interesting topic, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you looking for people's thoughts on Natives belonging to a/any religion other than their ancestral beliefs? Or are you looking for people's thoughts on whether traditional Native beliefs are compatible with various religions?
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:54 AM   #3
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Both...

What religions match different tribe's original beliefs?

How do you feel if a native person is...say.. Buddhist ...or...Muslim ?


Either topic or both...
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:12 AM   #4
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I don't have a problem with people being in different religions or even checking others out - it could even add on to / enhance our Beliefs - I don't think it would be harmful or takes away from the primary Religious / Spiritual beliefs a person has originally.

For me, sometimes I do that to understand some things better and to get a different perspective of the world and the people. I believe that it's good to be open minded, to seek knowledge from outside your "comfort zone" so to speak and even step out of my comfort zone.

I think the biggest thing regarding this topic would be Respect.

Take care,
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:55 PM   #5
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To some extent I feel, choose what you want. Now if you want to become Jewish (or some other culture based religion like our own) well thats no different then the wannabe's. you either got the blood or you don't.

As far as the whole "complimentary" thing, I disagree! Get off the fence and choose! It drives me crazy when I go somewhere and the person givin thanks has christianized the whole thing. If I wanted that I would have gone to church! The fact the religion around the world carry similar ideals (how to live a good life) doesn't mean they are the same. If you really want a combo religion go join the ba'hai (spelling)
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:04 AM   #6
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Let's for a minute put aside the "blood" issue -

What if a person is wanting to know more in depth about certain spiritual issues that they have - and they seek knowledge or answers and they end up looking outside their primary religion and finding it in another "religion" or "spiritual" based- would that mean they are "wannabes"?

What if it was just for those specific answers - does that mean they're straddling the fence or ?

Or what about the person who grew up in "Christian, Muslim or Jewish" based household for example and that person felt that it was the wrong religion for that individual regardless of "family" affliation / beliefs? Would that make that individual a wannabe?

Just wondering what your perspective was, Suzze.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverhawk76 View Post
Let's for a minute put aside the "blood" issue -

What if a person is wanting to know more in depth about certain spiritual issues that they have - and they seek knowledge or answers and they end up looking outside their primary religion and finding it in another "religion" or "spiritual" based- would that mean they are "wannabes"?

What if it was just for those specific answers - does that mean they're straddling the fence or ?

Or what about the person who grew up in "Christian, Muslim or Jewish" based household for example and that person felt that it was the wrong religion for that individual regardless of "family" affliation / beliefs? Would that make that individual a wannabe?

Just wondering what your perspective was, Suzze.
Sure.

Some belief systems are culture based, like our own so you c an't really be a part of them without the blood, unless you marry in, otherwise wannabe. Just learning a thing or to from another perspective but stickin to where you come from is being educational...on a spiritual level.

I don't like fence sitting NDN's when they bring christianity into my space...and it is a completely biased opinion based on issues I grew up with (being adopted by white racist right wing christians) I am aware that my opinion is biased, but it irks me just the same...despite having a best friend who is a fence sitter...so ya I can totally disagree with ya and still like ya. My best friend and I powwow together, sweat together, do socials together but there are certain ceremonies she won't do cause she feels they conflict with her christian beliefs. I find it annoying but I luv her anyway.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:54 AM   #8
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So - normally i dont chime in on stuff... but. What difference does it make what religion or what set of beliefs a person follows? Especially a Native person. The whole experience of religion is a personal one. What I believe and what mr. x believes are completely different. What does it matter if i'm sitting in a cathedral or in a tipi? I think that a persons set of values are their own and they dont have to explain their beliefs to you or me. I know that some people were taught that if you're Native you cant be Christian. But really what difference does it make? We are not the Natives from the 1400's where Jesuit priests are forcing the Catholic Religion on us. We are free to make our own decisions and live by those decisions that we've chosen to make.

I personally dont see anything wrong with a Native choosing to follow a different type of thought. i've spent sometime sometime reading about different religions and different religious thoughts...and Each one of us began somewhere and relgious thoughts are what people/cultures have chosen to believe. So I think that if a person is Native and follows the Bhuddist thought...well thats up to the person. Anyways- thats my 2 cents!! *L*
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:24 PM   #9
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Just want to clear up, I don't care what you believe (except being a wannabe...thats annoying) I just think ya should choose, not fence sit
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:07 PM   #10
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I agree that one should pick "Well, I am THIS"... it keeps your own path clear..

... but I am not sure about the limiting quality of saying "I am this and ONLY this and NEVER will I look at what something else has to offer"

Also... I very much disagree with your notion that race=religion...

That "native religion" is for those with native blood..

... that is ... the very heart of racism...just a "positive racism"..but that is still saying that "if you are this color, then this all you can have"

The "indian god" vs. the "white god"..

I strongly suggest you re-evaluate that statment.

Considering that native blood is actually ASIAN blood... then I guess you should be Taoist or Buddhist...by that definition.
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Old 03-03-2009, 06:12 PM   #11
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"Considering that native blood is actually ASIAN blood... then I guess you should be Taoist or Buddhist...by that definition. "

I think if you look, you'll find many that do NOT believe the Bering sea land bridge BS. Don't assume that this 'scientific' explanation is correct, or the only explanation.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:03 PM   #12
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You will find that many natives DO believe the Asian connection... considering that the "Inu/Ilnu/Ainu/Inyu" culture covers the top of the planet from Siberia to Quebec..

So.. maybe not all natives are comfortable with the genetic fact...

..but some of us are fine accepting the truth of asian origins...

Maybe your tribe came from... wherever.... but my tribe definately came from Asia... and that doesn't bother me.


I fear that many natives fight against having asian origins due to WW2 racism... you are afraid of being a "jap".... but honestly, ALL the evidence points to an Asian origin... ALL of it.. I don't know what other evidence you claim.. but ALL the evidence from genetics to linguistics to the WAY THAT ARROW HEADS ARE MADE all come from asia...

Also.. many tribes have legends that TAKE PLACE IN ASIA... kind of a dead give away...

In my own tribe.. we have four phases of time..
1.) Asia Period
2.) N.W and Great Lakes time period
3.) Quebec/Nova Scotia Time period
4.) Post European Contact period

Literally..our stories and history starts in Asia and follows our journey from Asia to Quebec and Nova Scotia...

So... at least Inu/Ilnu people are Asian.

Last edited by IlnuSoldier; 03-03-2009 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by IlnuSoldier View Post
You will find that many natives DO believe the Asian connection... considering that the "Inu/Ilnu/Ainu/Inyu" culture covers the top of the planet from Siberia to Quebec..

So.. maybe not all natives are comfortable with the genetic fact...

..but some of us are fine accepting the truth of asian origins...

Maybe your tribe came from... wherever.... but my tribe definately came from Asia... and that doesn't bother me.


I fear that many natives fight against having asian origins due to WW2 racism... you are afraid of being a "jap".... but honestly, ALL the evidence points to an Asian origin... ALL of it.. I don't know what other evidence you claim.. but ALL the evidence from genetics to linguistics to the WAY THAT ARROW HEADS ARE MADE all come from asia...

Also.. many tribes have legends that TAKE PLACE IN ASIA... kind of a dead give away...
If you spend time up there, thier stories state clearly that when they crossed the land brigdge we were already her, and they occupied the lands that we did not, which happened to be the environment they were used to. Of course if you want to except the white justification theory despite archeological evidence to the contrary, then go ahead.

Second, I won't reconsider my opinion, but you need to keep it in context. I specified that to be part of a culture based religion (like our own, or like Jewish people, and a few others) then you need to be part of that culture (blood or marriage), non- culture based religions are up for grabs to who ever wants them.

ADD ON:
I have respectfully given a a controversial opinion to a controversial question, it would be nice if those who disagree could keep my words in context

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Old 03-04-2009, 02:56 AM   #14
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Not all natives descended from Asians. Why is it that they are finding fossils here in the US/north america that pre-date the land bridge theory?
I think you also are similar to other non-natives that seem to group natives in one big group like we are all the same. To the outsider it may appear that way but once you get inside you'll notice the differences.

But i'm all for people exploring religion in various formats, especially if it makes the person a better person. A lot of people cling to christianity for all of their thoughts and decisions and its a very closed minded way of life. Life is much too grand to experience in 1 mode.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:17 AM   #15
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I have been exposed to Buddhism and although parts of it appeals to me large parts dont...

I have gone to many different services in my life including what became the Baptist church in modern times. We were converted Monrovian's 200 years ago. The sermons are written in our native tongue and same with hymns the whole service is in our native tongue. But despite my grandma I never became a devote baptist. LOL

I believe in what is inside me and have a hard time listening to somebody telling me how I should feel or believe. And certainly cannot believe that each of these hundreds of religions is the one true path!!!
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe G View Post
"Considering that native blood is actually ASIAN blood... then I guess you should be Taoist or Buddhist...by that definition. "

I think if you look, you'll find many that do NOT believe the Bering sea land bridge BS. Don't assume that this 'scientific' explanation is correct, or the only explanation.

Just think, If the Bering sea thing is true, we could have populated Asia! Maybe we went there instead of them coming here!
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:05 PM   #17
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And certainly cannot believe that each of these hundreds of religions is the one true path!!!
HOW TRUE!! It's very egocentric to believe that one way is the ONLY way, and the rest of the world is WRONG!?!?

I don't consider myself a fence sitter, but truly believe in my native ways, and my Catholic church. And they are very capatible. And I have the utmost respect for all other world religions. I don't feel the need to pursue these, but it's all very interesting.

True, neither is infallible, cuz religion is a man-made thing.
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by wyo_rose View Post
It's very egocentric to believe that one way is the ONLY way, and the rest of the world is WRONG!?!?
Concur.

And this should be applied to everything.
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:52 PM   #19
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First off, I thought I had clearly stated that MY NATIVE people came from Asia...

I said :

"Maybe your tribe came from... wherever.... but my tribe definately came from Asia... and that doesn't bother me."

I know my people's history and origins... now, obviously that does not APPLY TO EVERY SINGLE NATIVE GROUP in the Western Hemisphere.....

but I know that it applies to mine. And the fact that my tribe came from Asia does not "hurt" my religion because my tribes religion is not a ethnocentric faith.... it does not require that we have any particular origin or location of origination... in fact, our tribe's "origin story" is us coming over from Asia.... and we have complete stories and "legends" (so to speak) about the animals in Asia (THAT NEVER LIVED IN AMERICA) and how the animals changed as we cross over and also we have full stories about the Ice Age,etc.etc....

Being descended from Asians doesn't hurt MY tribe at all-----

Now, about your tribe ... I don't know... 'cause I'm not from your tribe...so how could I know ?

Anyway, that being said.... I apologize for going off topic with that remark.


Back on topic :

Ethnocentric faiths --- Yea, o.k... so you can't be Jewish unless your a Jew--- Where the hell do you think the original jews came from ? A bunch of people grouped together and said "O.k...our DNA pool is now Jew..."

Just like every other tribe in the middle eastern desert... then, like every tribe (apparently like most tribes here in North America).. they formed Ethnocentric religions placing them at the center of the universe and everything else revolved around them..

..and then the spirit that made their "First man" becomes their God.... and you worship that god because that is the GOD that made your tribe....

but when you become a NATION.. that God goes from being "one-of-many" to being "THE ONLY GOD" (because you have to change the way people think so they will follow a SINGLE KING in the regular world)..

..etc.etc... this is all standard human sociology...


Point is : Ethnocentrism and Ethnocentric religions are doomed to fail everytime... because they assume they are the single source of light in the universe..

But, I suppose you are right... You can't be Jewish without being a Jew..which means that your religion is LIMITED to the view of a "jew" and all the conceptual constrants that come with that..

Same as any "native religion" ( or do you mean Lakota Based Pan-Indianism ?) which recquires CDIB to worship ?

Point is... I opened a can of worms that I know regret.... I come from a people who DON'T have a traditional religion that is Ethnocentric...

...and I just realized many tribes DO HAVE an Ethnocentric religion...

...and makes me not even want to talk about it anymore...

I'm done.

Last edited by IlnuSoldier; 03-04-2009 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:40 PM   #20
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It goes back to an "US VS. THEM" mentality.

On the Asian relation: I can see how all the people around the Arctic are related, but the ethnoanthropologists even agree that this would be the "latest" migration.

Who would need to wait for the land bridge anyway? There's an ice bridge every winter....at least there used to be.

This continent had a well established population while Europe was still populated by Neanderthals. HOWEVER people came here, each creation story is very interesting and while people struggle with the literal meanings, it's still a mystery for the most part.

The only comfort I find is that when I die and go to heaven, all the mysteries of the world will be revealed, and then it won't even matter.
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