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Old 09-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillet View Post
it goes the other way too...if someone whos half marries another person whos half,the child will be half...if someones whos half marries someone whos full, the child is 3/4's...so zekes ongoing diatribe about blood is moot because it can go up as well as down...of course this not mentioned by zeke because it doesnt meet his agenda ..
and [email protected]

It can go up - it just can't ever hit 100% again after another race's blood has been mixed in.
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:40 PM   #202
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That's pretty much the problem, isn't it?

Defining ourselves via non-renewable resource is the ticket to extinction.
It gets back to that old argument - when is an NDN, NDN enough?
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:53 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
It can go up - it just can't ever hit 100% again after another race's blood has been mixed in.
And going up is NOT the norm. It WILL go down. WAY down.

Relatively quickly, in fact.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:57 PM   #204
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It gets back to that old argument - when is an NDN, NDN enough?
Depends upon who is defining it and how much $$$ is involved.
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:06 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Depends upon who is defining it and how much $$$ is involved.
and if you let anyone who says theyre indian,sign up,then theres alot more money rolling in at the old ndn entitlement center..
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:07 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
And going up is NOT the norm. It WILL go down. WAY down.

Relatively quickly, in fact.
even quicker if you dilute ndn world with the fakes and frauds that you advocate letting "be" indian...
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Old 09-10-2007, 05:48 PM   #207
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There is always money involved.
The %age will go down. Exceptions where it goes up will not keep it from going down! Tendency is clear.

Now: What are you going to do?

To me it seems as if there were just two main ways to handle it:

1) At least one half of the marrying couples has to be 100% Ndn,
the other half has to be at least a little bit Ndn- no 100% non-Ndn allowed!
Good luck with this one. But can this be a guarantee that the most important thing of how people define a 'real' Ndn
will be forwarded and held dear?

2) You concentrate on what makes an Ndn an Ndn - that image of an Ndn you want to forward and keep alive. And what would that be? How can you manage it? Is this a possible thing to do?
Or is it impossible? Can this be taught?

If you had to choose between
*your blood quantum,
*the color of your skin
*your culture,
and you had to decide to keep only one of those points alive,
what would be your choice?

And after you made your choice, AFTER you are sure of what is really important to you, you will be able to start something.

My opinion.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:24 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indian-heart-beat View Post
If you had to choose between
*your blood quantum,
*the color of your skin
*your culture,
and you had to decide to keep only one of those points alive,
what would be your choice?
Culture, in a heartbeat.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:45 PM   #209
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Same here.

I just thought about what fascinated me most in my history lessons at school:
Egyptsland...Tut Ankh Amun, pyramids, mummies,...
...
or India: Yoga, Ayurveda, even Kamasutra ,...
etc. etc. etc.

When I ask my friends: What gets on your mind when you hear the word: Egyptian- or Indian (Asian Indian), they will
not tell me anything about how they look or such ->
their answers will definitely be about their culture. And that's what will stay alive- as long as it is forwarded.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:52 PM   #210
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Hmm.. Interesting thought

However, unrealistic!

Every time someone wants to prove their point on this stance or to win their debate they come up with ultimatums. As if this is how the world works!

There is no, pick one or the other

there is nothing wrong with Indian people who want to preserve both blood and culture. And yes there are many people who live by those rules.

There are people who have blood with no interest in traditional indian culture, then there are those who are in between.

There are those who have little blood who live within their "recognized" indian communities(not talking about wannabes) who live the culture and are recognized by their relatives.

Just as any other society, we live with diversity.

Again for those who want to assimulate into mainstream; get rid of your card, move on with your life and quit trying to take down your relatives who don't agree with you.

the only goal you can accomplish will be reaffirming anti-indian sentiment for groups such as one nation, all the wannabes and the government. Since they all have the same mind-set which is we are all dying out, we will never evolve as a society and indians are too dumb to know when to give it up!
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:36 PM   #211
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Yes, I DO think you need to have ONE priority first,
that does not exclude number 2 and 3 at all.

What I think is that you need to concentrate on the most
important thing to keep this thing alive,

then,
then you can think of how you can include what comes
after number 1.

It is like everything...
first you need a concrete aim. (Or what would you tell your taxi driver where to get you?- What profession do you choose? What are you working out for? No arrival without an aim.)

Then you know what you are working for and at.

In the meantime- without losing sight of this aim, you can also have a look at what you like also.

I wish it were different, but I'm afraid things work this way.

Decisions, decisions, consequences, results...

Do you want to keep Ndn alive?
I will not make any decisions for any of you, and I don't have the right to do that. Some prefer to decide this way, some that way, some provide the winners' side because they do not decide at all.

In other words:
*I do hope that you will give your culture that chance to survive as long as human beings exist- or even longer!
*I do hope that you will not keep things secret- they can be lost so easily.
*I wish that no Ndn will even think of being jealous of black or white or yellow or green or ...people who WANT to honor your culture.
Of course you can try to keep your blood quantum high!
Why not?
*I also wish that your people will still be there forever!
*Plus I hope that those survivors will know their culture. And if there were not many of them anymore, those who knew their culture would probably or definitely forward their knowledge to anybody who is willing to keep it alive.

This is my opinion, and I've been thinking about this for a long time. This doesn't mean that this will happen, this doesn't mean that I am right. Until this minute I am just convinced that I am right- proof me wrong. I want the best for you- and for me also. Of course! There are no two ways about it.

About the marriage:
Marry who you love.
But in case the blood quantum is more important to you, watch who you marry.
In case your culture is more important to you, watch who you marry.
My opinion.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:44 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weshomenom View Post
However, unrealistic!

Every time someone wants to prove their point on this stance or to win their debate they come up with ultimatums.
In case I made you think that I am trying to win a debate, I apologize. This is not about me. This is just my opinion.
I don't want to be the winner here. I want you, your people, your culture to win! Forever. Maybe my English is not good enough here.
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Old 09-13-2007, 03:47 PM   #213
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Quote:
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You cannot possibly be this foolish.

Perhaps this is because you advocate in-breeding?

Do you, also, have a fetish about "precious, bodily, fluids?"
Only a fool would call it foolish. You keep skipping around the issue.

What is your native blood quantum? Only plums with something they're ashamed of get self righteous.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:08 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by othellobloke View Post
Only plums with something they're ashamed of get self righteous.
Then, perhaps, you should cease.

Think: why would I use quantum to qualify my position if I think quantum is a singularly dumb manner in which to do so? For anyone?
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:14 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by othellobloke View Post
Only a fool would call it foolish. You keep skipping around the issue.

What is your native blood quantum? Only plums with something they're ashamed of get self righteous.
skipping around an issue is zekes style...what he posts doesnt contain fact,only his speculations and grossly inaccurate information and generalizations...if one filters thru his grammatical garbage,he actually says very little of merit...and of course when confronted or asked a direct question(ie.to back up what he says) he simply ignores...a very typical reaction of those who's egos are larger than their brain...no worries tho,people see clearly thru his rhetoric
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:16 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Then, perhaps, you should cease.

Think: why would I use quantum to qualify my position if I think quantum is a singularly dumb manner in which to do so? For anyone?
have to wonder if zeke got his job based on the fact he is indian...that would nullify and void any of his statements but then it would come as no surprise either,we all know what a hypocrite the self righteous one is...
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:27 PM   #217
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So.........when you are talking in your language, do you use fractions to describe someone's identity?
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:39 PM   #218
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So.........when you are talking in your language, do you use fractions to describe someone's identity?
GREAT POST.

I cannot imagine that any sane person does.

I don't.

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Old 09-14-2007, 07:59 AM   #219
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Only a fool would call it foolish. You keep skipping around the issue.

What is your native blood quantum? Only plums with something they're ashamed of get self righteous.
Hmmm, Othellobloke...

I hope I didn't understand what you are really trying to say here...
I hope that my English is just too bad - that I'm getting it wrong...

Are you saying that it depends on your blood quantum whether you are a plum or not?

I am either 12 or 19%, how much plum am I?

Do only plums feel ashamed of something?

Or did you say this about all non full blood Ndns?

Or are you saying that you are the full blood plum here,
and everybody else needs to be ashamed of his or her opinion?

When I post here, is my opinion only as worthy as my percentage is? Then I better do every post at least 8 times?

Come on!
Tell me that you just picked the wrong words here, because you felt you had to defend yourself.
Or tell me that I'm stupid, I can live with that.

Hey, and in case you don't reply to this post,
I have to think that you ignore opinions of non full bloods.
At least Germans, or women...are you just another racist?
Have you got balls enough to answer?
Or is this a misunderstanding?
Help me here!
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:50 AM   #220
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IHB means we still won't assimilate, which is what Zeke wants, if you don't have to show proof (quotum, decendancy etc..) then anybody can say their ndn.......
the guy who wrote this, well thats his opinion...

KC Indian Center Director Says Indians Will Be Saved By Wannabes

Word is making the rounds in the Indian communities of Missouri that a new onslaught is being mounted against them. This time it comes from part of the Indian community itself, Heart of America Indian Center in Kansas City, Missouri. The Center comes into suspect as being a genuine American Indian supporter by the very fact that it links to one of the worst organizations in existence that maligns American Indian histories and traditions - Manataka. Manataka is a New Age organization headquartered in Hot Springs, Arkansas, that pretends to be American Indian and believes that aliens built crystal power structures in caves that they blasted into the mountains surrounding the area. This is the least weird claim.The 35 year old executive director of the Heart of America Indian Center stresses that tribes are worthless relics of the past and that there never has been such a thing as tribal sovereignty. He views anyone who wishes to preserve their tribal culture and traditions as racist cultural police. Seeing tribal sovereignty as being genocidal, he welcomes wannabe tribes and wannabe ?Indians? as saviors to American Indian existence. In other words, plastic Indians and their non-profit corporate ?tribes? will fill in and take the place of real ones - thereby saving the American Indian.A 2003 Masters Graduate in Public Affairs from Parks University, a branch of the St. Louis University, he believes that Haskell is inferior to any other college in the nation. Graduates of Haskell, he has written, have a divisive mindset. This is apparently based on that Haskell promotes American Indian cultures and traditions. On the other hand, we do know that SLU has a watered American Indian studies program that conducts activities that are not exactly pro-Indian.The centers plan is to establish Indian Centers throughout Missouri to service the wannabe tribes, completely ignoring the damage they do through fabricated history and making up traditions. Part of the services will be to gain funding originally intended for legitimate American Indians and use it for the plastic Indians instead. Although resistance to this plan is starting in the St. Louis Indian community, other areas in the state will be wide open for this travesty. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case where Indian centers have not performed in the best interest of their constituents. One example is the 2005 attempt by the ?Red Nation of the Cherokee? to take over the Mid-American All-Indian Center in Kansas City, Kansas, and rename it the Red Nation of the Cherokee Mid-America All Indian Center.
Fortunately, ?Chief Randy Two Bears Standing Tate? of the Red Nation of the Cherokee, failed in his takeover attempt. Whether or not the Executive Director of the Heart of America Indian Center fails or
succeeds in his plans is not as certain. It will depend on the
reactions and actions by legitimate American Indians in Missouri that are taken against this insult. Either way, the Heart of America Indian Center has lost all of its credibility.


why do you live off of 501c3's and grants again Zeke?? Helping the poor ndn's because thats your position, but your writings show different...seems he don't want to be accountable for his actions....

still waiting for him to reply but like most of us, we are on ignore unless somebody qoutes from us lol......

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