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View Poll Results: Natives dating/marrying non-natives
Yes, it's exceptable 91 61.49%
NO, definatatly not! 32 21.62%
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:21 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
One obvious answer is that some individuals are concerned that their allocation of subsidies will decrease if we deviate from the demeaning "quantum standard." In some cases, that's all they have -- short-sighted and closeted -- and they fear being asked to grow and be accountable. They have taken the metaphorical cheese and accept the branding of their masters: even to the point of making it a factor in who their children wed. SAD. These fools have tied blood quantum to cultural identity. That's BAD.



Precisely the point. Even in a pureblood scenario, blood doesn't work as a determinative factor for who we are. And, of course, we all KNOW the statistically minimal number of pureblood weddings... Negligable. Reality is that we are dealing with diminishing fractions across the board. Logic demands we come up with a cultural definition, before those who would have us tied to a cross of quantum see us crucified upon it.



Ah yes! Logic. I concur. Try getting threatened -- and hypocritical -- anthropological psuedo-traditionalists to think that way, however. Quantum demeans us, like dogs.



Step one would be to cease allowing them the dominant position by continuing to "blame" them for our foibles. If a Native is an alcoholic, for example, that's because he IS an alcoholic. It is NOT because the government made him one.

When Natives become accountable, eradicate the "poor me" rhetoric, and cease to define themselves using non-renewable resources, we'll get somewhere.
OMG all this from a total hypocrite who HANDS OUT THE CHEESE AND SUBSIDIES...and dont worry zeke we wont EVER think the way you do...we want to survive as a people not become tools of assimilation .
(i wish zekes word of the month club would send him his new word,concur is getting borrrring)
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:54 AM   #122
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THANK YOU!!!!!! and very very true about hitler trying to accomplish the same things as zeke proposes...much of zekes rhetoric has smatterings of pre-war germany

zeke seems to be the only one who doesnt see these points...but then he also has a personal agenda revolving around making us all pan-indian.and yes self righteous definer of what is and isnt indian,you CAN in fact increase a fraction,that was pointed out several threads ago but you would have to be able to read and comprehend beyond your government approved thinking.
My husband would tell you to pass it down through the Mom in this case, but after talking to him about it we have decided to raise the kids with both beliefs & let them choose, realistically the choice that makes the most sense is to follow thier Dad's side since that's where we live (which I believe is how it would have been done way back when) but it's up to them (in our house)

Suzze
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:01 AM   #123
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The overwhelming drug/alcohol problems amongst Natives is due to the fact that many Natives abuse drugs and alcohol.

Step one in fixing ANY problem is admitting who causes it. Nobody puts a gun to these fools' head. They choose to use, every day. This is, simply, more "poor me," more "200 years ago," more inability to be accountable...

Nothing that happened 200 years ago causes any rationally intelligent person to abuse substances TODAY. To believe so makes us backwards social wards who still wail at the pleasing of the Great White Father or brands you as irrational.

In a previous post, WocusWoman beseeched Natives to teach their children to "choose wisely." I couldn't agree more. Step one? "Get past using 200 years ago as an excuse." Step two? "Get past quantum." Step three? "Move forward."

Failure to do so brings about downfall. ENJOY.
FOR REAL ZEKE, THIS AGAIN?

I care more about todays issues & most of us have repeatedly told you the SAME thing.

Now we all know you hate the quantum thing & say it's culture but this is what confuses me. If you hate the traditional culture so much why do you want us defined this way? Is it so we will decide your not NDN since you hate the traditional culture. Or is it cause you got a bunch of wannabe friends with a non-traditional culture they have invented & you want them in. I'm just so confused by your 2 continuing conflicting statements.

Suzze
(quoting me would be appreciated so zeke can explain, apparently I'm on ignore)
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:16 AM   #124
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I'm sure, positive, etc., that.......... what Zeke proposes would never be acted on by any native nation. So.......... why the big hoohaw? We all know how each other feels. Everyone posting thinks that the other posters of unlike mind are a big weenies.

Whatever.

I am quite content that my family is all brown. My Grandchildren are all brown. My son takes them, as I did, to native functions everywhere he can, so that they will, in time, meet another native person, who, they may eventually hook up with. (dam long sentence) (everyone okay with that?)
That's all we can hope for. We can't decide for our kids or grandkids. But........ if we take that effort for them to always be around other native kids, chances increase.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:45 AM   #125
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I'm sure, positive, etc., that.......... what Zeke proposes would never be acted on by any native nation. So.......... why the big hoohaw? We all know how each other feels. Everyone posting thinks that the other posters of unlike mind are a big weenies.
There are tribes that have already gone away from quantum, so we are well on our way. As for social troglodytes being "weenies," well that speaks for itself.

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Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii View Post
Whatever.
That's certainly another way to look at it. Natural Selection will sort them out, anyway. (Did they say anything even borderline worthwhile? Thankfully, I cannot see.)

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Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii View Post
I am quite content that my family is all brown. My Grandchildren are all brown. My son takes them, as I did, to native functions everywhere he can, so that they will, in time, meet another native person, who, they may eventually hook up with. (dam long sentence) (everyone okay with that?)

That's all we can hope for. We can't decide for our kids or grandkids. But........ if we take that effort for them to always be around other native kids, chances increase.
But the odds are still against it, long-term.

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Old 08-09-2007, 11:03 AM   #126
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It might be good to marry someone who understands you and your culture, even if they are white. Just because you love the person doesnt mean the rest of the family will. My lil' sis dates non-indian men, one of my cousins is married to a white guy. I love my sister, so I deal with the fact that she perferes non-natives, even though I hate she does that. Now my cousin . . . . I just down right dis-like that boy. I call him boy because he disrespected my older cousin in her house, infront of her kids. If he were native, he would have said those thing in private or outside the home, not round the kids.

I know what some of you are thinking, Natives do the same thing. My family holdes our kids with the highest respect. You treat your kids the way you want them to treat you and others.
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:55 AM   #127
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It might be good to marry someone who understands you and your culture, even if they are white.
Absolutely! Culture is most important.
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:15 PM   #128
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no one said anything(except for your qualifying and quantifying) about substance abuse being blamed on anything that happened 200 years ago...rather it was very clearly stated that substance abuse is directly related to todays assimilation into non-native society...i'll type s..l...o...w...l...y so zeke understands....if native society wasnt exposed to meth then there would be NO meth problem...etc etc
FYI zeke,alcoholism is a disease and Indian People have a gentic pre-disposition to alcoholism.
Zeke....Skillet's talkin to ya
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:16 PM   #129
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[QUOTE=SuzzeQ4;951758]FOR REAL ZEKE, THIS AGAIN?

I care more about todays issues & most of us have repeatedly told you the SAME thing.

Now we all know you hate the quantum thing & say it's culture but this is what confuses me. If you hate the traditional culture so much why do you want us defined this way? Is it so we will decide your not NDN since you hate the traditional culture. Or is it cause you got a bunch of wannabe friends with a non-traditional culture they have invented & you want them in. I'm just so confused by your 2 continuing conflicting statements.

Suzze
QUOTE]

Ok I just really want to hear the response so.....assistance granted.
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:21 PM   #130
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Zeke....Skillet's talkin to ya
I'm not listening.

Skillet is a social apologist, refuses to be accountable for anything, and is HARMFUL to the advancement of Native people.
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:56 PM   #131
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wtf, this thread won't show anything past post 6
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:13 PM   #132
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wtf, this thread won't show anything past post 6
Calm down, take a deep breath, and click on 'refresh'
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:35 PM   #133
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I'm not listening.

Skillet is a social apologist, refuses to be accountable for anything, and is HARMFUL to the advancement of Native people.
LOL more of your dillusional paranoia zeke? try prozac,it might help...
i dont need to apologize for ANYTHING nor do i use whats happened to Indian people by your masters as an excuse for anything...im Tradtional zeke,not that you have one clue what that means...i look to the future but not on YOUR terms which is why you cant handle anyone who doesnt have the same myopic views as you do. I seldom pull out my resume ,i have nothing to prove to anyone and those who know me , know that i have done a few things to try to make a positive change and preserve native life...
funny for someone who has all of us on ignore,you do seem to care what we say...typical of your hypocrital dementia based babblings.
As far as accountablity,it would seem youre soon to be held very accountable for your posted statements regarding the AIM leadership,they were very interested in who was slandering them on this site
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:40 PM   #134
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As for Natives marrying non-natives,,,, I am the product of the marrying of Native and non-native. What is interesting is that Natives have the endency to marry the non- natives who are some way affiliated with another tribal or clan system. I am a mix of Irish (clan), Jewish (tribal) and Lacota (tribal). And what is interesting is that I respond to the call of the Native drums, the Irish pipes, and the Jewish shofar (blowing of the rams horn). It is in my blood,,,in my spirit. And non of these clash one with the other. What is interesting also is that all of these cultures and peoples are ones who have been subject to murder, enslavement, torture, imprisonment, and relocation. the Natives are not allowed to roam freely as we once did,,but are religated to reservations. the Irish are still a divided peoples where 1/3 are under british occupational forces and under british rule. The Jews have only recently reutrned home after over 1500 yrs of exile and murderous imprisonments and others attempting to literaly bomb them out of existance. We count the Natives of this land as being many tribes and native nations. the Irish count themselvs as many clans. the Jews identify themselvs with thier 12 tribes of Isarel. How can we,,as a people say that we are better than those who also have traveled such a simular path. Fir those who marry outside,,, be it for love and for no other reason. But also for a successful marriage,,,do consider that the outsider is also a person for a tribe or a clan. there is more in common that we all think,,,,,,,,,,thank you.
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:24 PM   #135
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The overwhelming drug/alcohol problems amongst Natives is due to the fact that many Natives abuse drugs and alcohol.

Step one in fixing ANY problem is admitting who causes it. Nobody puts a gun to these fools' head. They choose to use, every day. This is, simply, more "poor me," more "200 years ago," more inability to be accountable...

Nothing that happened 200 years ago causes any rationally intelligent person to abuse substances TODAY. To believe so makes us backwards social wards who still wail at the pleasing of the Great White Father or brands you as irrational.
Dude... are you mostly white? Like with low native blood quantam, was abused verbally by natives and now are bitter? It seems like that.

Nobody's putting a gun to YOUR head to make you be foolish... but you're still doing it.

If you had ANY personal experience of substance abuse in your family, you'd know that choice isn't even a concept for hard substance abusers. Explaining choice to a hard alcoholic or smackhead is like explaining it to a five year old.

You've obviously got low blood quantum and are feeling very touchy about it.

If you want the culture to be important and not the blood and genetics, there is a HUGE market for all things native in Germany . Whole bunch of white people who do it OLD STYLE... WAYYYYYYYY out in the bush, in real teepees, with real deerskin clothes, hunting with bows and arrows... you could always join them. It'd look quite stupid a whole bunch of white people running around in the bush wearing deerskin clothes with feathers in their hair, but that won't matter to you because you care about the culture and not the genetics.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:10 AM   #136
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If you want the culture to be important and not the blood and genetics, there is a HUGE market for all things native in Germany . Whole bunch of white people who do it OLD STYLE... WAYYYYYYYY out in the bush, in real teepees, with real deerskin clothes, hunting with bows and arrows... you could always join them. It'd look quite stupid a whole bunch of white people running around in the bush wearing deerskin clothes with feathers in their hair, but that won't matter to you because you care about the culture and not the genetics.
zeke will want their names and addresses to sign them up as indians.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:21 AM   #137
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Okay, I've had enough.

I've tried laying out reasonable arguments for analysis. It appears that threatened-types cannot fathom. So, let's look at things from their perspective and blow this ALL out of the water.

Let's cut to the chase -- which has always been my style -- and front out the ridiculously challenged troglodytes and "genetics warriors." Let's pretend, for just one moment, that quantum is the bomb!

Take a GOOD look at the percentages found within this very poll, as entered by Native people. Do you SEE what it says?

It says that >75% of Native folk don't give a DAMN about dating/marrying Non-Natives.

For those that cannot logically deduce what that means, try crawling out of your pseudo-traditionalist and "genetics hero" (Sig Heil!) fantasy land. Even if you're right -- and you're not -- IT'S OVER. If DNA/genetics are what count, we're already done. Not enough Natives are race-baiting and isolationist fools to further your plans.

Bloodlines, and quantum, WILL get weaker. The universe will continue to evolve. Change will come and the only thing that can/will remain viable is the culture we endeavour to live by/within.

Now, if you must, you can be the "proud warrior" who refused to change his way of life, in 1890, as the world changed around him -- with no hope of the "old way" returning -- in an effort to be some modern day, ridiculous, windmill-tilting, isolationist and forlorn hero: but you better understand something.

That guy died.

And so did the children who were indoctrinated into such determinate thought.

Those that cannot perceive such, who hold to quantum, bray like a-s-s-e-s about an intellectual battle already lost, and beg us to follow them into the vortex of their rabbit hole, are poison.

It's all about the culture, and that frightens them. This is no one's problem but theirs.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:58 AM   #138
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Okay, I've had enough.

I've tried laying out reasonable arguments for analysis. It appears that threatened-types cannot fathom. So, let's look at things from their perspective and blow this ALL out of the water.

Let's cut to the chase -- which has always been my style -- and front out the ridiculously challenged troglodytes and "genetics warriors." Let's pretend, for just one moment, that quantum is the bomb!

Take a GOOD look at the percentages found within this very poll, as entered by Native people. Do you SEE what it says?

It says that >75% of Native folk don't give a DAMN about dating/marrying Non-Natives.

For those that cannot logically deduce what that means, try crawling out of your pseudo-traditionalist and "genetics hero" (Sig Heil!) fantasy land. Even if you're right -- and you're not -- IT'S OVER. If DNA/genetics are what count, we're already done. Not enough Natives are race-baiting and isolationist fools to further your plans.

Bloodlines, and quantum, WILL get weaker. The universe will continue to evolve. Change will come and the only thing that can/will remain viable is the culture we endeavour to live by/within.

Now, if you must, you can be the "proud warrior" who refused to change his way of life, in 1890, as the world changed around him -- with no hope of the "old way" returning -- in an effort to be some modern day, ridiculous, windmill-tilting, isolationist and forlorn hero: but you better understand something.

That guy died.

And so did the children who were indoctrinated into such determinate thought.

Those that cannot perceive such, who hold to quantum, bray like a-s-s-e-s about an intellectual battle already lost, and beg us to follow them into the vortex of their rabbit hole, are poison.

It's all about the culture, and that frightens them. This is no one's problem but theirs.
aw he's getting all huffy now because people dont see his way of thinking...as Blackbear stated in a previous thread,zeke only tells people they are wrong ...heres a link to a story that perfectly illustrates what happenes when you follow the zeke way:

Omaha.com Metro/Region Section

and um zeke ,can you read??? can YOU SEE what it says??? the poll(at least on my screen) says 59% not 75%...shesssh you cant even quote something properly thats at the top of the same page youre writing on.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:54 AM   #139
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Zeke... I'm hoping that's not your real name?

Anyways if you'd been reading you'd see that a large portion of native women who shag outside their race do it because a large portion of native blokes haven't got 'it' together.

It stands to reason the solution would be to concentrate on ridding indigenous society from the evils of substance abuse, and working to unburden native blokes from the after effects of colonial-era colonisation tactics instead of this 'we need to concentrate on culture and forget about genetics' crap.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:00 AM   #140
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Anyways if you'd been reading you'd see that a large portion of native women who shag outside their race do it because a large portion of native blokes haven't got 'it' together.
(sigh) You realize, of course, that this, if true, is the fault/problem of the so-called "Native Blokes" and not due to any 3rd-party intervention. Perhaps if said "Native Blokes" were the least bit accountable to themselves, and others -- without incessant "poor me" whining -- we wouldn't have this problem?

Or is accountability too forward thinking?

Seriously, if adult individuals do not have "it," together, blaming someone else makes them social children. GROW UP. If what you say is true, you'd think Native women would be railing against the inefficacy of Native men, with good reason.

Oh, wait...

Last edited by Zeke; 08-10-2007 at 11:22 AM.. Reason: dumbass spelling
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