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View Poll Results: Natives dating/marrying non-natives
Yes, it's exceptable 91 61.49%
NO, definatatly not! 32 21.62%
Undecided or no comment 25 16.89%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-10-2007, 12:00 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post
aw he's getting all huffy now because people dont see his way of thinking...as Blackbear stated in a previous thread,zeke only tells people they are wrong ...heres a link to a story that perfectly illustrates what happenes when you follow the zeke way:

Omaha.com Metro/Region Section

and um zeke ,can you read??? can YOU SEE what it says??? the poll(at least on my screen) says 59% not 75%...shesssh you cant even quote something properly thats at the top of the same page youre writing on.
I was wondering where that number came from too...
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:05 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by whitewave View Post
I was wondering where that number came from too...
I think he's adding the 59% who say yes to the 16% that don't care or have no comment.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:05 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
(sigh) You realize, of course, that this, if true, is the fault/problem of the so-called "Native Blokes" and not due to any 3rd-party intervention. Perhaps if said "Native Blokes" were the least bit accountable to themselves, and others -- without incessant "poor me" whining -- we wouldn't have this problem?
You HAVE to be white. Or an apple of some sort. You need a good hard slap in the chops. Saying that the current state of many indigenous folk ALL over the world who have substance abuse problems is their fault is not only offensive but straight up wrong.

The FAULT lies with the colonisers - not the colonised you moron. It's their problem - NOT their fault.

You obviously have no real FIRSTHAND knowledge of the problems indigenous people experience - it's hard to talk to someone who hasn't got any knowledge of the subject they're speaking on.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:16 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by othellobloke View Post
Anyways if you'd been reading you'd see that a large portion of native women who shag outside their race do it because a large portion of native blokes haven't got 'it' together.
Its not just women dating/marring outside their tribe, it is also men. Some women dont have 'it' together either.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:44 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
(sigh) You realize, of course, that this, if true, is the fault/problem of the so-called "Native Blokes" and not due to any 3rd-party intervention. Perhaps if said "Native Blokes" were the least bit accountable to themselves, and others -- without incessant "poor me" whining -- we wouldn't have this problem?

Or is accountability too forward thinking?

Seriously, if adult individuals do not have "it," together, blaming someone else makes them social children. GROW UP. If what you say is true, you'd think Native women would be railing against the inefficacy of Native men, with good reason.

Oh, wait...
Alright Zeke, I think we all get your point. We may not agree, but you've made it clear. No matter how many times you say the same damn thing your not going to "convert" anyone to your way of thinking just because you use "proper" english and big words. Seems you try to turn every thread into the same subject ("whining" vs. "accountability") and its starting to sound like a broken record....

Is there no grey area??

Why is it always black or white? As far as substance abuse goes....I think it comes from both sides. Really its a terrible cycle that dies hard. Yes, change must come from within.....#1 the users themselves need to want to change and know that they need to change their ways and must realize that its not hopeless, nor is it ok.

#2 the Native community should be doing everything possible to change this pattern and uplift each other as well as teach our children.

#3 It is NOT something that we should look down on our own people for we should be supporting each other not tearing each other down!

#4 It WAS used to exploit Native Americans from the moment the Europeans brought it over here that was their idea all along and that should be reconized as that was the beginning of a cycle of devistation. Pointing that out is not wrong.

#5 It is a disease that you don't just snap out of and make a decision like "hey I'm gonna stop" in most cases. The addiction of any drug (alcohol being a major one) is almost paralysing at times. If you have not experienced this disease within yourself, then you cannot possibly know what its like, how hard it is, or anyones intent. Not that I have, but maybe I'm just a lil better at putting myself in someone else's shoes than you.....I dunno

#6 Finally, in reconizing both the devestation it causes, and that it was the European tradesmen's intent: we should reconize (not whine) that these substances were not meant for our people other than to destroy, and USE that as partial motivation to break the cycle begun by "the man" who still encourages it today.

*The only way is to break the cycle....but its not NEARLY as simple as you make it out to be, and you are NOT better than anyone*
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:46 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewave View Post
I was wondering where that number came from too...
I included those who were undecided as they -- obviously -- do not have terminal aversion.

Still, the lesser number is perfectly valid to prove my point: quantum is going away. :)
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:48 PM   #147
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:49 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Mud_Woman View Post
Its not just women dating/marring outside their tribe, it is also men. Some women dont have 'it' together either.
Noted.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:50 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Mud_Woman View Post
Its not just women dating/marring outside their tribe, it is also men. Some women dont have 'it' together either.
Very true. Just like men (and women) of ALL races right now do not have 'it' together. AND I'd say there are plenty of Native men that DO have it together as well. I think there are plenty here who will agree with me on that.
Plumes? Superndngirl? Am I right?? I know I am because the very few men I personally know that DO have it together ARE Native men.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:53 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by othellobloke View Post
The FAULT lies with the colonisers - not the colonised you moron. It's their problem - NOT their fault.
That's crap.

GROW UP.

The fault lies with the folks who commit the self-abusive behavior.

I'll bet you romanticize ritual suicide, too.

Perhaps 200 years ago, your argument had merit. TODAY? No way.

Last edited by Zeke; 08-10-2007 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:05 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewave View Post
Very true. Just like men (and women) of ALL races right now do not have 'it' together. AND I'd say there are plenty of Native men that DO have it together as well. I think there are plenty here who will agree with me on that.
Plumes? Superndngirl? Am I right?? I know I am because the very few men I personally know that DO have it together ARE Native men.
Yes, very true. There are men who do have it together, but most of them are taken. The few that are not, like one I know, would rather be single and have fun.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:07 PM   #152
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Zeke . . .

You sure are the hot item here
It happens. No worries!
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #153
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Is there no grey area??
I tend to think, "no."

I mean you either ARE personally responsible for your lot and success in life, or you are NOT.

If folks desire to continue blaming the Great White Father for everything that comes down the pike, well, "it's inherently limiting."

If there is a cycle, we are responsible for perpetuating it. Conversely, it is OUR responsibility to break it.

Believing anything else continues our existence as mere wards.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:40 PM   #154
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I tend to think, "no."
Well that's your opinion....and THAT is precisely why we will never see eye to eye....which is fine.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:30 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
That's crap.

GROW UP.

The fault lies with the folks who commit the self-abusive behavior.

I'll bet you romanticize ritual suicide, too.

Perhaps 200 years ago, your argument had merit. TODAY? No way.
You're a fool - the situation of substance abuse with indigenous people is a DIRECT result of the colonisation. Don't make me write out a long spiel about how and why.

Is it just a coincidence it's higher for native peeps, than any other race?

You must really have been abused by natives when you grew up... or was adopted into a white family with plenty of money.

You've got no concept or understanding of substance abuse with ANY race, and definitely need to read up on what causes the abuse for indigenous people.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:36 PM   #156
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Quote:
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You're a fool - the situation of substance abuse with indigenous people is a DIRECT result of the colonisation.
(sigh) The situation of substance abuse among Natives is a direct result of them abusing substances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by othellobloke View Post
Don't make me write out a long spiel about how and why.
Go ahead. I'd adore seeing your defeatist, "poor me," and "we can't do any better" rhetoric.

Start typing...
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:44 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I tend to think, "no."

I mean you either ARE personally responsible for your lot and success in life, or you are NOT.

If folks desire to continue blaming the Great White Father for everything that comes down the pike, well, "it's inherently limiting."

If there is a cycle, we are responsible for perpetuating it. Conversely, it is OUR responsibility to break it.

Believing anything else continues our existence as mere wards.
I agree that there are no real grey areas,,,,What is sad is that many refuse to accept that they only have one real power,,that is the power of choice,,the power to chose. All too often we want someone to blame and that is our way of empowering the other with our power of choice. What is past we can not change,,,,but we can change the future. And it is in the choices we make here today. today I chose to live clean and sober. today I chose to accept the ways of the ancients. Today I chose to build towards the future. Today I chose not to hate. Today I chose to help a brother or sister up from thier death. Today I chose to serve my people. And today I chose to be a giver of life and not death. We as a peoples are all too often making the same mistakes of the outsiders,,we war amoungst ourselves just as they war amoungst themselves. We chew eachother up and spit us out like bile. We see it all the time with the whites in europe,,the blacks here in the americas,,,the latinos in the cental americas,,, the africans inafrica,,,and the semitics in the middleast. This is what is our downfall. this is what keeps us from being a strong and vibrant peoples.
There is away to re-claim back our heratage,,,a way to re-claim back the lands. It is through the dance,,,the language,( I so wish I knew mine!!!),,, working the land,, even using the us gov money to buy and annex lands back to our lands,,extending our territories again,,,, to become self sufficient and learn to make a native economy. Here in WA state the Muckelshoots have even thier own liscense plates,,,cutting out the state and the feds out of their powers,,,hehehe,,and we as a people even by the federal laws have the right to form our own currency,,,, we have the power to form our own economy and make it blossom. this forum has gone way beyond the issue of native dating/marrying outsiders,, it in truth is cutting deep into what is really hurting us,,, the division,,,the warring,,the abuseiveness that has been adopted from our enemies. I went to the Sobriety Pow Wow two weeks ago at Muckelshoot and was dismayed that not as many came as the year before. The pride was diminished. Next year in the last weekend of July is the 10th annual Sobriety Pow Wow and I encourage that all who really love our peoples to come out here and not just show support,,,but to even be an encouragement to our peoples that we do not have to be divided nor succumb to the disease that plagues our peoples. We can rise again and trust me in this,,,it is not by war,,but by cooperation one with another. Peace!!!
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:17 PM   #158
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Now, if you must, you can be the "proud warrior" who refused to change his way of life, in 1890, as the world changed around him -- with no hope of the "old way" returning -- in an effort to be some modern day, ridiculous, windmill-tilting, isolationist and forlorn hero: but you better understand something.

That guy died.

And so did the children who were indoctrinated into such determinate thought.

I seriously hope your not pissing on who I think your pissing on!!
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Old 08-29-2007, 07:51 PM   #159
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I believe for a marriage to be strong we need the same spiritual belief system, be physically/sexually compatible, mentally compatible, be a helpmate to each other and trust each otherÖ

Good luck finding all that!

If I follow Native Traditional beliefs the man I am with should too or weíre probably headed for turbulent waters. That is the same for Natives that follow the Jesus Way; if your spouse doesnít there could be issues down the road.

I was married to a Dutch man for many years and he and his family always thought I was involved in some weird religion. They were Catholic; didnít understand our ceremonies.

Probably not many white people follow our beliefs b/c they donít understand them. Many of the ones I meet, that think they follow Native ways are mostly into New Age stuff.

That is their path; I am not knocking it, thatís their business.

The point for me is, if you follow Ndn beliefs you're probably going to end up with another Ndn... or it's going to drive you crazy.
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:17 AM   #160
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I agree that there are no real grey areas,,,,What is sad is that many refuse to accept that they only have one real power,,that is the power of choice,,the power to chose. All too often we want someone to blame and that is our way of empowering the other with our power of choice. What is past we can not change,,,,but we can change the future.
Concur in all respects.

Of course, to change the future, one must have the actual ability to grow.

Such appears to not always be in abundance.

"Fear."
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