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Old 05-03-2004, 11:16 AM   #41
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woo-hoo!!!! That's what I'm talking about!! Our tribal government actually had the guts to reach down and grab a hold and say no?!?!?!? WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!! Now, if only our president would do the same and actually try to do something for the tribe. (ie: running electricity to the people who need [been rquesting for 20 years, still no juice], running water, economic development and actual community services that work) Instead of reducing the blood quantum, they should reduce the amount of time a tribal employee goes on vacation and "seminars"...........
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:25 AM   #42
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i'm in favor of it but i think with a 1/8 there should be more rules as far as take away the tribal funding for the 1/8 just for a while and see if their loyalty still is with their nation...do this as a trial basis...plus 1/8 they have to do community service on the rez wehter it be at the health center etc.. then after all said and done those who are left should become recognized..basically make requirements....thats just a thought.. the thing is we cant deny those who are 1/8th...cuz their native too..-becca
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:38 AM   #43
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Just a thought, but I think you had a great idea there Becca, but why not some community service for EVERYBODY??? Not just "those 1/8 people" but EVERYBODY from the tribe EVERY YEAR. That might see some things that have been getting neglected get done, help the community by having the MEMBERS do the work, save MONEY since things are getting done by the VOLUNTEERS, and result in some improved cummunity relations since people have to WORK TOGETHER.

Probably sounds better that it would be in actuality, but I STILL think it's a good idea.

And in the case of "expanding" membership, just think of all of the "services" that could get performed if 50,000 members started "giving back" at least a little time every year!

Tom
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26
i'm in favor of it but i think with a 1/8 there should be more rules as far as take away the tribal funding for the 1/8 just for a while and see if their loyalty still is with their nation...do this as a trial basis...plus 1/8 they have to do community service on the rez wehter it be at the health center etc.. then after all said and done those who are left should become recognized..basically make requirements....thats just a thought.. the thing is we cant deny those who are 1/8th...cuz their native too..-becca

Are you serious? Can I ask you a question...are you full blooded native? if not....how much are you native?
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:56 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan_019
Just a thought, but I think you had a great idea there Becca, but why not some community service for EVERYBODY??? Not just "those 1/8 people" but EVERYBODY from the tribe EVERY YEAR. That might see some things that have been getting neglected get done, help the community by having the MEMBERS do the work, save MONEY since things are getting done by the VOLUNTEERS, and result in some improved cummunity relations since people have to WORK TOGETHER.

Probably sounds better that it would be in actuality, but I STILL think it's a good idea.

And in the case of "expanding" membership, just think of all of the "services" that could get performed if 50,000 members started "giving back" at least a little time every year!

Tom
ok now...I know for a fact is my tribe said..we want you to do community service..Id be like no way...What natives do you know would do that kind of stuff? corny idea...*whispers*"Now Ima get somemore bad reputation for speaking my mind"
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan_019
Just a thought, but I think you had a great idea there Becca, but why not some community service for EVERYBODY??? Not just "those 1/8 people" but EVERYBODY from the tribe EVERY YEAR. That might see some things that have been getting neglected get done, help the community by having the MEMBERS do the work, save MONEY since things are getting done by the VOLUNTEERS, and result in some improved cummunity relations since people have to WORK TOGETHER.

Probably sounds better that it would be in actuality, but I STILL think it's a good idea.

And in the case of "expanding" membership, just think of all of the "services" that could get performed if 50,000 members started "giving back" at least a little time every year!

Tom
thats a even better idea of expanding rquirements to everyone...instead of particularly just 1/8 but i do think they should lower the blood quantem..ppl gotta think their might even be some half breeds and full bloods who are in it fer the money too.. greed is pretty much natural instinct of human behavior...i dont see why people limit it to 1/8 always being the greedy ones when there are those who are 1/8 who become recongized so they can vote and participate in their own nations issues and concerns...so does that make them greedy to? i think ppl should think of things 2 sided rather than 1 sided...things would go around alot better that way...less bickering and argueing over meaningless things and get more work done to improve our communities to make a better environment for future generation...the thing is if we leave the way thigns are with less work that was done on the centers then we leave it for the next gerneration to pick up the pieces and who knows by then things could get worse or better or stay the same..-becca
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Old 05-03-2004, 12:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26
thats a even better idea of expanding rquirements to everyone...instead of particularly just 1/8 but i do think they should lower the blood quantem..ppl gotta think their might even be some half breeds and full bloods who are in it fer the money too.. greed is pretty much natural instinct of human behavior...i dont see why people limit it to 1/8 always being the greedy ones when there are those who are 1/8 who become recongized so they can vote and participate in their own nations issues and concerns...so does that make them greedy to? i think ppl should think of things 2 sided rather than 1 sided...things would go around alot better that way...less bickering and argueing over meaningless things and get more work done to improve our communities to make a better environment for future generation...the thing is if we leave the way thigns are with less work that was done on the centers then we leave it for the next gerneration to pick up the pieces and who knows by then things could get worse or better or stay the same..-becca

Less bickering? and more meaningful things? Whats not meaningful? You ever been to a tribal meeting? Talk about Jerry Springer....Im with more blood quauntum. Do you even know why the Govt put a blood quauntum on natives? answer me that.
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Old 05-03-2004, 12:21 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SBZ4life
Less bickering? and more meaningful things? Whats not meaningful? You ever been to a tribal meeting? Talk about Jerry Springer....Im with more blood quauntum. Do you even know why the Govt put a blood quauntum on natives? answer me that.
meaning less bickering over blood quantem...yay i know they do talk about community issues (like diabetes) but that doesnt mean that their isnt more work that needs to be done..blood quantem is more like a restriction put on to keep up the blood quantem so no one is lower than (1/2-1/4 depending on certain nations) its to keep blood quantem as pure as possible but with this day in age there are more mixed bloods in this generation who are 1/8 and 1/4..this is only an opinion dont get over worked up...ya have right to yar own opinions as so do i-becca
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Old 05-03-2004, 12:52 PM   #49
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I really think blood quantum is a means .gov uses in order to reduce "indian" populations more than anything... If you have any doubts, check into what the Canadian govt uses to determine indian rights and benefits (for Metis people?)... Some BS about "if you mother/father is enrolled, and you marry a non-enrolled person"... etc, etc, etc. All designed in order to be able to some-day claim that since there are not more "1st nations people" (via their crooked blood quantum-type calculations) then they are no longer obligated to recognize them, no longer obligated to honor reservation claims, no longer obligated to meet treaty requirements, no longer obligated to provide health care, no longer obligated to return trust income... etc, etc, etc.

The less WE do as native people to exclude our own people from our rolls, the better off ALL our nations will be in the long run.

Offered IMHO of course,
Tom
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Old 05-03-2004, 12:59 PM   #50
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The people on here who advocate lowering the blood quantum are obviously thin bloods. And who's stupid, ignorant a$$ idea was it to make the 1/8ths do community service in order to "earn" their percap?!?! That's ridiculous.

To become a member of my band, you have to be 1/2. And our percap is like $8/year. That's not even enough to take my snag out to McDonalds. The council will consider 1/4 breeds who bonk their snag over the head with cast iron frying pans tho.

On the real. The issue at hand is not tribal population but the dilution of our bloodlines. Hopefully, enforcing strict membership regulations will inspire members to breed with our own kind.
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Old 05-03-2004, 01:15 PM   #51
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yay its a risk that the blood quantem that would go down( thats why its important especially to 1/8 to marry full bloods) but what i was tryin to get acrossed here is that ya cant deny those who are 1/8th...cuz their native too....community service isnt such a bad idea...its probably not realistic cuz it would never happen... and no i aint no thin blood im 1/4 ...
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Old 05-03-2004, 01:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan_019
I really think blood quantum is a means .gov uses in order to reduce "indian" populations more than anything... If you have any doubts, check into what the Canadian govt uses to determine indian rights and benefits (for Metis people?)... Some BS about "if you mother/father is enrolled, and you marry a non-enrolled person"... etc, etc, etc. All designed in order to be able to some-day claim that since there are not more "1st nations people" (via their crooked blood quantum-type calculations) then they are no longer obligated to recognize them, no longer obligated to honor reservation claims, no longer obligated to meet treaty requirements, no longer obligated to provide health care, no longer obligated to return trust income... etc, etc, etc.

The less WE do as native people to exclude our own people from our rolls, the better off ALL our nations will be in the long run.

Offered IMHO of course,
Tom
Before the ammendment of the Indian Act ( otherwise known as Bill C-31) the recognition of native people's was ridiculous. Not to mention sexist and indicative of the Man trying to hold us down. For example: one would lose/be denied rights if:

1. An Indian woman married a non-Indian man (but a White woman who married a skin gained treaty rights).

2. Children of non-Indian mothers whos father also had a non-Indian mother.

3. Indians residing outside of Canada for 5 years

4. Indians witha university degree

4. Half-breed persons outside of Manitoba who accepted scrip

and too many others to mention. My grandfather lost treaty rights after joining the army to defend whitey. Then my grandmother lost her rights after she married him. CRAZY! They were reinstated in 1985. OH YIPEEE!!

The new Act identified four different types of Indian 1) status with band membership 2) status with no band membership 3) non-status but with band membership 4) non-staus, non-band. As a result, one may hold legal status but not be a member of a band. Indian status is reviewed by the Department of Indian Affairs and a decision is made as to whether or not the individual has legal right to claim Indian Status. However, band membership is determined by the band council. There is one exception to this rule. The approxiamately 20 000 women who lost their status thru intermarriage automatically become band members if they are reinstated by DIAND.

I'll start another post on Mtis people...
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Old 05-03-2004, 01:28 PM   #53
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BAck to the subject at hand, i'm glad our council members finally passed something that was very meaningful!!! Its great to see that the blood quantum will not be lowered any time soon!! :blow: My kids are all full bloods and all my family are as well. :) I think it all depends on how the family and extended family raise and talk to their kids in how to keep our bloodlines full and strong... but I was not happy to hear talk of lowering the blood quantum levels... but i'm glad that our tribal council made a wise decision :D :Thumbs
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Old 05-03-2004, 01:37 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26
yay its a risk that the blood quantem that would go down( thats why its important especially to 1/8 to marry full bloods) but what i was tryin to get acrossed here is that ya cant deny those who are 1/8th...cuz their native too....community service isnt such a bad idea...its probably not realistic cuz it would never happen... and no i aint no thin blood im 1/4 ...
But why even risk the potential thinning out of whatever blood we have left? I have no problem with people self-identifying as Natives. No matter what the affiliation (1/8, 1/4, by injection), what I do have a problem with is one declaring blood the second financial/social gain is possible.

All I am saying is that if a tribe lowers its memberwhip criteria, the possibility of diluting the bloodlines is astonishingly high.

And the community service idea sucks moose nads. It's not realistic because philanthropy is supposed to be inspired by compassion, not money. It would be offending our ways to promote such an idiotic idea.
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Old 05-03-2004, 01:39 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burberrilish
BAck to the subject at hand, i'm glad our council members finally passed something that was very meaningful!!! Its great to see that the blood quantum will not be lowered any time soon!! :blow: My kids are all full bloods and all my family are as well. :) I think it all depends on how the family and extended family raise and talk to their kids in how to keep our bloodlines full and strong... but I was not happy to hear talk of lowering the blood quantum levels... but i'm glad that our tribal council made a wise decision :D :Thumbs
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Old 05-03-2004, 02:00 PM   #56
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yay that is a very bad risk...i totally agree on that issue there...but with the community service.... doh!*l*okay i get it yay now that i do think about it...either which way the person(1/8) gets recongized it would be social or finaincial gain...-becca
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Old 05-03-2004, 02:08 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibby
Before the ammendment of the Indian Act ( otherwise known as Bill C-31) the recognition of native people's was ridiculous. Not to mention sexist and indicative of the Man trying to hold us down. For example: one would lose/be denied rights if:


4. Indians witha university degree
wow dayum!!

Quote:
The new Act identified four different types of Indian 1) status with band membership 2) status with no band membership 3) non-status but with band membership 4) non-staus, non-band. As a result, one may hold legal status but not be a member of a band. Indian status is reviewed by the Department of Indian Affairs and a decision is made as to whether or not the individual has legal right to claim Indian Status. However, band membership is determined by the band council. There is one exception to this rule. The approxiamately 20 000 women who lost their status thru intermarriage automatically become band members if they are reinstated by DIAND.
This sounds like a good way of doing it.... is it working?
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Old 05-03-2004, 03:21 PM   #58
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[QUOTE=Mato WinyanThis sounds like a good way of doing it.... is it working?[/QUOTE]

You have GOT to be kidding, right...

Under this system, if a fullblood marries a "non-status, non-band" person, NONE of their children can be recognized? How could that be designated as a working system?

IMHO our native cultures have a LOT more meaning than some stupid blood quotient crap. When all these "recognition" rules get "interpreted" by whomever happens to be in charge for that time-period, all kinds of stupid things can happen, like BIA people getting enrolled in some of those Cali tribes for instance, just because they needed some higher membership numbers to be considered for gaming...

Whenever somebody tries to stuff things like this into a mathematical equation somewhere, nobody will be happy with whatever answer pops out, except big brother by chance, since the rules only account for DENYING membership, and REDUCING the blood quotient... Just like when 2 fullbloods marry, it's not like they'll get some sort of "higher" status, like you probably should from this sort of thing...

Divide and conquer is alive and well. As long as THE MAN can continue to keep native people working against each other, for whatever reasons, he'll eventually win out, whether that means finally eradicating native people, or just suppressing them into poverty-driven suicide and substance-abuse.

As for community service requirements, I really can't see why it's a bad idea. Sure, people are not going to want to spend their time (whatever the requirements is) doing something for free (even through they'll get recognition in the community) when they have hungry mouths to feed, and the grocery stores don't just give stuff away. Heck, I've had a hard time convincing my oldest son to do ANY community service, even though it is required for 40 hours by the time he graduates. Since he's now a junior, that's 3 YEARS he has had a chance to do something for the community, yet nothing so far... Perhaps some incentives would help our communities rebuild and grow back to some honorable reflection of the past...

Should it be directly tried to "tribal membership", NO. But if it was tied to some sort of "trust membership" then perhaps that's a start.

IMHO, Tom
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Old 05-03-2004, 03:41 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Burberrilish
BAck to the subject at hand, i'm glad our council members finally passed something that was very meaningful!!! Its great to see that the blood quantum will not be lowered any time soon!! :blow: My kids are all full bloods and all my family are as well. :) I think it all depends on how the family and extended family raise and talk to their kids in how to keep our bloodlines full and strong... but I was not happy to hear talk of lowering the blood quantum levels... but i'm glad that our tribal council made a wise decision :D :Thumbs
I agree with this strongly; talking openly and candidly with your kids about the importance of this, can be something that will change the future of your whole family. Also, setting good examples for your kids will also make them proud of who they are and influence their decisions on marriage and kids in the future.
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Old 05-03-2004, 04:22 PM   #60
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[QUOTE=hockeyfan_019][QUOTE=Mato WinyanThis sounds like a good way of doing it.... is it working?

You have GOT to be kidding, right...

Under this system, if a fullblood marries a "non-status, non-band" person, NONE of their children can be recognized? How could that be designated as a working system?

IMHO our native cultures have a LOT more meaning than some stupid blood quotient crap. When all these "recognition" rules get "interpreted" by whomever happens to be in charge for that time-period, all kinds of stupid things can happen, like BIA people getting enrolled in some of those Cali tribes for instance, just because they needed some higher membership numbers to be considered for gaming...

Whenever somebody tries to stuff things like this into a mathematical equation somewhere, nobody will be happy with whatever answer pops out, except big brother by chance, since the rules only account for DENYING membership, and REDUCING the blood quotient... Just like when 2 fullbloods marry, it's not like they'll get some sort of "higher" status, like you probably should from this sort of thing...

Divide and conquer is alive and well. As long as THE MAN can continue to keep native people working against each other, for whatever reasons, he'll eventually win out, whether that means finally eradicating native people, or just suppressing them into poverty-driven suicide and substance-abuse.

As for community service requirements, I really can't see why it's a bad idea. Sure, people are not going to want to spend their time (whatever the requirements is) doing something for free (even through they'll get recognition in the community) when they have hungry mouths to feed, and the grocery stores don't just give stuff away. Heck, I've had a hard time convincing my oldest son to do ANY community service, even though it is required for 40 hours by the time he graduates. Since he's now a junior, that's 3 YEARS he has had a chance to do something for the community, yet nothing so far... Perhaps some incentives would help our communities rebuild and grow back to some honorable reflection of the past...

Should it be directly tried to "tribal membership", NO. But if it was tied to some sort of "trust membership" then perhaps that's a start.

IMHO, Tom[/QUOTE]

I see your point. I was asking Jibby how it was working because she is the one posting about it and she is from there.

I am not going to begin to say I know about this system and everything involved. I said the idea of the status.. and different degree of status sounds good.. meaning like an alternative.. intresting .. like it maybe a more workable solution than straight across the board 1/8th and yer in. Never mind the fact you live in NYC .. Newww Yorrrrrk Cityyyy and make a six figure income and have no clue about your people or yeah..not making any contribution to they tribe by time or otherwise.

Anyone knowing how complicated tribal laws and government are should know that there will be no workable solution that is perfect anytime soon.
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Last edited by Mato Winyan; 05-03-2004 at 04:25 PM..
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