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Old 03-24-2006, 01:31 PM   #1
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Arrow Oglala Sioux Tribe on the South Dakota Abortion Ban

Oglala Sioux Tribe on the South Dakota Abortion Ban
by blackeye1776
Mar. 22, 2006 at 12:34 PM
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1809859.php

"To me, it is now a question of sovereignty." President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe on the Pine Ridge Reservation, Cecilia Fire Thunder, says "I will personally establish a Planned Parenthood clinic on my own land which is within the boundaries of the Pine Ridge Reservation where the State of South Dakota has absolutely no jurisdiction."

South Dakota's abortion law
Tim Giago (Nanwica Kciji) 3/20/2006
© 2006 Native American Journalists Foundation, Inc.

When Governor Mike Rounds signed HB 1215 into law it effectively banned all abortions in the state with the exception that it did allow saving the mother's life. There were, however, no exceptions for victims of rape or incest. His actions, and the comments of State Senators like Bill Napoli of Rapid City, SD, set of a maelstrom of protests within the state.

Napoli suggested that if it was a case of "simple rape," there should be no thoughts of ending a pregnancy. Letters by the hundreds appeared in local newspapers, mostly written by women, challenging Napoli's description of rape as "simple." He has yet to explain satisfactorily what he meant by "simple rape."

The President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe on the Pine Ridge Reservation, Cecilia Fire Thunder, was incensed. A former nurse and healthcare giver she was very angry that a state body made up mostly of white males, would make such a stupid law against women.

"To me, it is now a question of sovereignty," she said to me last week. "I will personally establish a Planned Parenthood clinic on my own land which is within the boundaries of the Pine Ridge Reservation where the State of South Dakota has absolutely no jurisdiction."

Strong words from a very strong lady. I hope Ms. Fire Thunder challenges Gov. Rounds and the state legislators on this law that is an affront to all independent women.

(Tim Giago is the president of the Native American Journalists Foundation, Inc., and the publisher of Indian Education Today Magazine. He can be reached at [email protected] or by writing him at 2050 W. Main St., Suite 5, Rapid City, SD. He was also the founder and publisher of the Lakota Times and Indian Country Today newspapers)

*********************************************

Oglala Sioux president mulls opening Planned Parenthood clinic
Cecelia Fire Thunder says sovereignty would overrule abortion ban

By Tom Lawrence
Rapid City Weekly News - 21 March 2006
http://www.rcweeklynews.com/vnews/di.../44206b2225b18

The president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe has floated the idea of opening a Planned Parenthood clinic on tribal land and performing abortions there despite a state law banning most abortions.

“Nobody has a right to tell a woman what to do with her body,” Cecilia Fire Thunder said Tuesday. “That’s between a woman and her God. A woman could go there and get services not available elsewhere.”

Placing the clinic on tribal land would mean it would not be under the jurisdiction of the state of South Dakota, she said.

“To me, it is now a question of sovereignty,” Fire Thunder said last week. “I will personally establish a Planned Parenthood clinic on my own land which is within the boundaries of the Pine Ridge Reservation where the state of South Dakota has absolutely no jurisdiction.”

She made these comments in an interview with journalist Tim Giago, whose column appears in The Rapid City Weekly News and on its Web site.

On Tuesday Fire Thunder, a former nurse and health-care provider, reiterated those comments in an interview with The Weekly News. If a clinic were placed on allotted land on a reservation, it would be “out of the reach of the South Dakota state Legislature,” she said.

South Dakota Attorney General Larry Long said Fire Thunder’s claim isn’t entirely accurate.

Long said there are three categories of legal enforcement on tribal land: if a tribal member commits a crime against a fellow tribal member, it would be a matter for federal or tribal courts to deal with, based on the severity of the crime.

If one of the persons involved is a tribal member and one is not, and it is in most cases a major crime, it is under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

If however, both people involved are not tribal members, or it’s a victimless crime involving a non-tribal member, than it’s a state crime, Long said. In that case, if the abortion law withstands challenges in court and on the ballot, and a non-tribal member performs an abortion on a non-tribal member in Indian Country, it would be a violation of state law, he said.

But, Long pointed out, there’s a “realistic” chance the abortion ban will be referred to the November ballot and would not be in place anytime soon. It may also be blocked by a federal court on a constitutional basis, he said.

Fire Thunder said she favors opening a clinic that would be for all women, Native American and non-Native. The only abortion clinic in South Dakota now is in Sioux Falls; it operates one day a week.
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Historian
[B]"To me, it is now a question of sovereignty." President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe on the Pine Ridge Reservation, Cecilia Fire Thunder, says "I will personally establish a Planned Parenthood clinic on my own land which is within the boundaries of the Pine Ridge Reservation where the State of South Dakota has absolutely no jurisdiction."
This stinks! We need a better, more traditional president. Having an abortion clinic on the reservation is a horrible idea. Then Pine Ridge will become a haven for people seeking abortions.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:32 PM   #3
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you know at first i thought wow that is great, then i read singers rply and i thought he is so right, but my finale thought is Pine Ridge is not my Rez, so my opinion is mute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
This stinks! We need a better, more traditional president. Having an abortion clinic on the reservation is a horrible idea. Then Pine Ridge will become a haven for people seeking abortions.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:37 PM   #4
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Sorry bro but it's not about being "for" abortions - it's about sovereignty and giving Oglala Lakota women reproductive choices and rights. Obviously you guys who are so quick to knock Fire Thunder for proposing a Planned Parenthood aren’t aware of the documented cases of Oglala women forcibly sterilized by IHS doctors through the 1980’s. There are also more recent reports of women judged "unfit" to be mothers having been forced into abortion. Planned Parenthood doesn’t promote abortions, it provides education and a choice. How would you feel if your daughter was raped and became pregnant? Is it “traditional” now to make a young girl carry a baby created through incest to term?
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazynavajoe
Sorry bro but it's not about being "for" abortions - it's about sovereignty and giving Oglala Lakota women reproductive choices and rights. Obviously you guys who are so quick to knock Fire Thunder for proposing a Planned Parenthood aren’t aware of the documented cases of Oglala women forcibly sterilized by IHS doctors through the 1980’s. There are also more recent reports of women judged "unfit" to be mothers having been forced into abortion. Planned Parenthood doesn’t promote abortions, it provides education and a choice. How would you feel if your daughter was raped and became pregnant? Is it “traditional” now to make a young girl carry a baby created through incest to term?
+
wow crazy is right, why all the anger? and who is -Obviously you guys who are so quick to knock Fire Thunder- i know you ain't talking to me but from what i can see there are only two posts after the origional, and neither one of us said we are against pro choice. how the hell do you know what i am aware of or not aware of. i know what you are not aware of...rational thinking and thoughtful responces. maybe if you want to attack me you should read my posts on the other thread befor you go spouting angry words at me. and with all your uneducated attacks the worst was bringing up my daughter, who by the way has been raped....like most of the women that inhabit this planet will so i would apreciate it if you would keep your foulness to your self. as for what singer was saying......Then Pine Ridge will become a haven for people seeking abortions......it sounds as if he was talking about what this might make his reservation look like, not what his view on abortion was. dang i have not been this fired up in a while. congrats
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:40 PM   #6
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I"m all for a planned parenthood on reservations to give the natives choices.. but to open it to non native women as well... she'd be opening a can of worms she does'nt want. Other than that though.. being able to be treated for sexually transmitted disease, regular pregnancy check ups, sexual education , birth control without leaving the rez... great idea for the women there.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:41 PM   #7
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yEAH, BUT CAN SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE TRIBE USE THEIR MEDICAL SERVICES? Would someone actually travel to Pine Ridge for medical services?

Then all this is a moot point.

Unless you mean the lakota people will now be less careful and start having more abortions 'because they can' now?

That governeor sounds like an azz. Ill bet he is all about jesus and god. Whatever happend to separation of church and state? Why should be people who arent jesus freaks in SD have to follow the jesus freak ways of the governor?
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Unless you mean the lakota people will now be less careful and start having more abortions 'because they can' now?
Most women are more responsible than that... than to use abortion as a form of birth control. Do you know how bad an abortion is for you body and mind??? It's the thought that if there was a need for one, such as in rape, incest and such that this particular solution is not out there. Most women don't agree with abortion especially not as a form of birth control... I know you "probably don't mean to" but you are making it sound like someone would get an abortion to spite the state.
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Old 03-28-2006, 05:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
Most women are more responsible than that... than to use abortion as a form of birth control. Do you know how bad an abortion is for you body and mind??? It's the thought that if there was a need for one, such as in rape, incest and such that this particular solution is not out there. Most women don't agree with abortion especially not as a form of birth control... I know you "probably don't mean to" but you are making it sound like someone would get an abortion to spite the state.
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Old 03-28-2006, 05:10 PM   #10
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I was just making a point. Im not SAYING that.
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:32 PM   #11
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no I figured you did'nt mean it that way and that's whY I said that... but letting you know that's how it sounded.

You know, even when it's rape... it's got to be very hard to make that decision because you still know it's a baby, and you still know it's yours. Sometimes people make it sound like it's easy to view a fetus as nothing... it's not easy at all.
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Old 03-29-2006, 07:32 PM   #12
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I cannot be more against this I dont really give a rip about "rights". Indian people are losing ground in culture, language world view and virtually everything else. Now we want to help ourselves kill off the future? There needs to be more INDIAN babies not less. Even poor indian babies are better off than dead ones.

No one grew up poorer than me, I also probably rank in the top 1% in abused situations but I still am glad my mother birthed me despite pressures by everyone to abort me. I am glad my nephew who was produced by a rape is here because of the beauty of his soul. My first son was aborted by an ex against my will and it haunts me everyday.

Every indian aborted is a victory for the white people.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:59 AM   #13
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My opinion on this topic is based on the fact that I don't want this on my tribe's reservation. Let me ask everyone who is in favor of this...would you want this in your town? If you're so for this, have you lobbied to have a planned parenthood clinic on your rez? Yeah, I didn't think so.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
My opinion on this topic is based on the fact that I don't want this on my tribe's reservation. Let me ask everyone who is in favor of this...would you want this in your town? If you're so for this, have you lobbied to have a planned parenthood clinic on your rez? Yeah, I didn't think so.
yah that is what i was saying in my earlier post, and i agree with what you are saying as i stated a couple times-"you know at first i thought wow that is great, then i read singers rply and i thought he is so right, but my finale thought is Pine Ridge is not my Rez, so my opinion is mute."
it sounds as if he was talking about what this might make his reservation look like, not what his view on abortion was.

anyway i do not think i would want that on my rez but i am pro choice but i would not want MN women invading my rez, they can come to gamble but then they got to go. lol.
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
My opinion on this topic is based on the fact that I don't want this on my tribe's reservation. Let me ask everyone who is in favor of this...would you want this in your town? If you're so for this, have you lobbied to have a planned parenthood clinic on your rez? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Planned parenthood is one thing... abortion clinic is another.. theres' so much more to planned parenthood that could benefit women in one area .. and abortion would'nt become more prevalent in the middle of a rez either. Why? because everyone would know everyone and what they are there for. But for the health of moms and babies.. yes I would advocate to have one on my rez.. and btw.. the health clinic that covers all that IS on my rez and held out of the grade school. Does it cover abortions? I don't think so, but I also don't know for sure.
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Old 05-29-2006, 05:53 AM   #16
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Why any nation, would support Planned Parenthood is beyond me! Margaret Sanger, who founded them was one of the most Blatant bigots who sought to kill any children of color! Look her up, it might shock you!Has anyone looked into this group and what it does today? Their track record sucks, they are responsible for millions of murdered babies, they DO NOT report men that impregnate young girls, to make money from doing an abortion on them. They do not give proper information or medical care or information for an alternative to abortion, women and girls die, have life threatening complications, become injured, sterilized because of botched procedures etc.
Why do we kill our own children, because of them being inconvenient? We need to better than this! Indians supporting a group, that was made in the first place, to kill them off! Amazing!

Our children are our greatest blessing, I am a mom of 7 and have 3 grandchildren. They didn't all come along at the right times or at convenient times, but I wouldn't have missed out on one of them!
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:06 PM   #17
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I am against abortions except rape and incest.
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:25 PM   #18
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okay so to be honest i am not sure about Margaret Sanger, but i do have to take a stand against the other so blatent lies and propaganda you have put here. first how do you know about the older man thing where are your facts? young girls do not have to put the name or age of the male they were with. second they do give proper info on alternatives, they also show movies and have a counseling session to make sure you know exactly what is going to happen and what your choices are. they also provide preventative meassures. they are strong advocates for birth control, i know this because i get my birth control from them and it is way cheaper then the pharmacy. as for this statement...women and girls die, have life threatening complications, become injured, sterilized because of botched procedures etc. this is fact, but not of planned parenthood, this happened alot when they were illeagle, and women were going to underground doctors or doing it themselves with coat hangers, and i think that is such a dumnb statement anyway people die and have complications from nose and boob jobs too why are'nt you out with your sign.

i am really happy that you have your 7 children what a blessing that is for sure, i know i love my babies but you do not live in the mind of every women you do not walk in their shoes you do not know what they are going through.

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Originally Posted by Wakopataki
Why any nation, would support Planned Parenthood is beyond me! Margaret Sanger, who founded them was one of the most Blatant bigots who sought to kill any children of color! Look her up, it might shock you!Has anyone looked into this group and what it does today? Their track record sucks, they are responsible for millions of murdered babies, they DO NOT report men that impregnate young girls, to make money from doing an abortion on them. They do not give proper information or medical care or information for an alternative to abortion, women and girls die, have life threatening complications, become injured, sterilized because of botched procedures etc.
Why do we kill our own children, because of them being inconvenient? We need to better than this! Indians supporting a group, that was made in the first place, to kill them off! Amazing!

Our children are our greatest blessing, I am a mom of 7 and have 3 grandchildren. They didn't all come along at the right times or at convenient times, but I wouldn't have missed out on one of them!
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Old 06-03-2006, 05:25 AM   #19
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[COLOR=Purple]Sorry it took some time to get back and answer your questions. I know that we differ on abortion, and that is your right. I would like though, that you look into the facts, that are well documented.

Margaret Sanger, founded Planned Parenthood, and was a leader of genocide against people of color and poor whites. She was a member of the KKK, in which she was the key note speaker in 1929 at a klan rally.
She also became a supporter of Hitler, and was a neo nazi. America became the first country to forcibly sterilize, "Inferior people". I would suggest that you look her up and find her statements, to see what her thinking was. It is shocking! Did you know that at least 80% of all PPH, clinics are in minority neighborhoods? Did you know that thousands of native women were sterilized without their knowledge or permission in the 60's and 70's? Some of them had hysterectomy's, because the doctors told them that they can have babies again after a uterus transplant! What cruel lie that was!
You asked me for the facts about older men and teenagers, you can find the information at www.childpredator.com They feature audio so that you can hear it for yourself. They also talk about the District Attorney's that are handling it. There is a call for congressional hearings concerning what happened. In 1991, PPH, put out an information pamplet give to young girls ways to balance out a relationship with older men. That encouraged having relations with older men! This helps older men, which is stat, rape, or molestation!
At www.prolifeaction.org/providers You will find a list of providers that tell what happend when they provided abortions and how awful the business is. This IS a money driven business.

At www.angelfire.com/ex/dianalopez/ you will find the story of a young mother who died because of her abortion. I can give you many sites that document the deaths of women and of girls. You talked about abortions being safe today because they used hangers in the past. Let me tell you about Dr. Bernard Nathenson. He was one of the original founders of Naral. Naral is the national association for the repeal of abortion laws. This doctor performed at least 5,000 with his own hands, including his own child. He supervised and oversaw an additonal 70,000 abortions. His clinic opened at 7am and closed at midnight 7 days a week. He said that Naral fabricated and exaggerated the figures and numbers of illegal abortions and knew that the number was about 10,000 per yr. Naral claimed that it was 1,000,000. Naral fabricated the deaths due to illegal abortion from about 300 per yr. claiming that it was 10,000. A patant lie. He has since become prolife, and has made a movie showing an actual abortion, called the "Silent Scream" This too is availble to see on line to view free. The woman who had the abortion, was devastated after the abortion, seeing the film. She was a feminist, hated prolifers, until she saw her baby torn to pieces. The doctor who did the abortion, was also sickend when he saw the taped ultrasound showing the baby trying with everything it had to get away from what was going to kill it.
Did you know that your at risk of premature births and cancer are higher after an abortion? Did you know that you can be sterilized by a simple abortion, become infected and become unable to carry a baby? Your risk of eptopic pregnancy is much higher, knowing that this is life threatening? Your uterus can become perforated during the procedure which can be life threatening, you can bleed to death or have to have a hysterectomy? The list goes on and on. So tell me something just how safe is abortion now that it's legal? Women and girls are all told that it is a safe procedure only to be hurt forever or dead! Did you know that a large part of people who are prolife have had abortions? I have been doing this for 30 yrs. now, and have first hand knowledge of PPH. If they want so much to show the truth and provide information, then why don't they do ultrasounds, and show the women and girls the baby within them? They know that many would change their minds if they saw the heart beat and the baby. Can't make money that way!!! I could go on and on, there's alot to tell you after 30 yrs. 3 of my kids I was told to abort because the doctor thought there might be something wrong. I told them no, and the kids were perfect. How many healthy babies have died the same way? Partial birth abortion, hideous just like the rest of them.
There's one thing that I am sure of though, and that's, that the genocide of our people continues to this day, by an organization that was founded by a white supremist. Everytime a native child is killed by a group that aborts them, it's about money and race! Like I said, I just hope that you look into all of the facts, about PPH, and read the sites I gave you,with an open mind. There are just to many stories to tell about the women we have helped over the years, before and after abortions.There are two victims in this, as it's not just the baby!COLOR]
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Old 06-03-2006, 07:01 AM   #20
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Oglala Sioux Tribe Council Bans Abortions, Suspends President
By Bill Harlan, Journal Staff Writer
Rapid City Journal - 1 June 2006
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/arti...top/news01.txt

PINE RIDGE, SD — The Oglala Sioux Tribal Council has banned abortions on Pine Ridge Indian Reservation and suspended the tribe’s embattled president for the second time in seven months — this time, for allegedly using her office to solicit money and other support for a proposed reservation abortion clinic.

The vote Tuesday was unanimous to suspend President Cecelia Fire Thunder without pay for 20 days, pending an impeachment hearing.

Tribal council member Will Peters of the Pine Ridge District said Wednesday that Fire Thunder had improperly used her title and her office, including a post office box, to solicit donations. “She acted outside the scope of her duties,” Peters said.

Fire Thunder has said that donations for the proposed private clinic have been unsolicited, though she has welcomed nationwide support. The clinic even has a name, Sacred Choices, a location, (in Kyle) and a board of directors.

Fire Thunder did not attend Tuesday’s tribal council meeting because she was in Iowa getting an annual checkup of the cochlear implants that restored her hearing.

On Wednesday, in a telephone interview from Iowa, Fire Thunder said she couldn’t comment about the suspension because she hadn’t seen the charges. “I guess I got ambushed,” she said.

Fire Thunder proposed the clinic in March, in response to South Dakota’s new law that would ban all abortions except to save the life of a pregnant woman.

That law has been referred to a statewide vote in November. Fire Thunder is one of 16 co-chairpersons of the South Dakota Campaign for Healthy Families, which supports the referendum to overturn the abortion ban.

Fire Thunder promised to donate her own land for the proposed clinic, saying that its reservation location would put it beyond the reach of a state law banning abortions.

Lawyers disagree whether a reservation clinic could perform abortions, but the tribe’s own abortion ban could make the question moot. Former tribal judge Patrick Lee of Rapid City said a court challenge of a tribal abortion ban could be difficult. “What court would you challenge it in?” he asked.

Fire Thunder told the Sioux Falls Argus Leader on Tuesday that she proposed the clinic to provide contraception, education and other services to women. She said she had never used the word “abortion” in connection with the proposal.

But Fire Thunder acknowledged Wednesday that her original intent was to make abortions available to women from throughout the state — especially in cases of rape or incest. “I was angry,” she said Wednesday. “When your reservation has the highest rates of unreported rapes and crimes in Indian Country, something is very wrong. So yes, I did offer my land for the clinic, and, yes, I knew it would get me in trouble. And it did.”

Peters said abortion was contrary to traditional Lakota values. “We say, ‘Wiconi kile lila Wakan,’” he said. (“This life is sacred.”)

A group has organized on the reservation to oppose the clinic.

But Peters also said he believed women should have control over their own bodies. “It breaks my heart to have to weigh in on this as a man,” he said. He also noted that many of those protesting Fire Thunder’s clinic are women. “I felt that as a Lakota man, I should support them on this issue,” he said.

Peters added that he had supported Fire Thunder during political disputes last year about a number of issues, including a controversial $38 million loan to the Oglala Sioux Tribe from the Shakopee Tribe of Minnesota. “I was strongly supportive of her, but that gal is a hard gal to watch over,” Peters said.

Fire Thunder’s 20-day suspension in October dragged on for weeks because of various delays, but the tribal council voted unanimously to reinstate her Dec. 31.

Fire Thunder, who is the first woman to serve as president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe, said people who opposed her election in November 2004 were behind both suspensions. “I’m tired of it,” she said Wednesday. “I really am tired.”
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