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Old 01-30-2004, 11:57 AM   #1
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Phony Medicine Men

BEWARE OF FAKE MEDICINE MEN
by Becky Blanton - Sierra Times.com



http://sierratimes.com/04/01/13/ar_tn_blanton.htm

Native American watchdogs are warning people about an increase in spiritual frauds and phony medicine men - which are leading to anything from financial scams to rapes and even murder. Darren McCathern, a spokesman for Comanche Lodge in Oklahoma, says the problem of false medicine men and Native American teachers isn't limited to just the west.

"In the last year or so there have been several instances of
sexual assault and rape in connection with fake medicine men. "One case recently resulted in the conviction of a man in New Mexico that was guilty of hurting a pregnant woman with child, where he then left her for dead in the desert.

"This was done as a result of convincing the poor woman to undergo some type of fake nude healing ceremony that ultimately led to his conviction for rape," he said.

"The more informed the public is to these types of issues, the
safer they are."

John Gisselbrecht, a spokesman for the Native American Resource Research & Cultural Center, in Kalispell, Mont., says he's concerned about visitors and residents to the area who are being taken advantage of in the name of Native American spiritual and ceremonial walks of life across the United States. "We've had a number of medicine men/women and
'presto' spiritual leaders come to our attention. Their practices are absurd and some border on criminal," he said.

McCathern and Gisselbrecht offer the following tips to help people determine if those people teaching are legitimate or if they are fakes and wanna-be Native Americans.

1) There are never, under any circumstances, any charges or forms of payment for true Native American ceremonies or instruction. If anyone requests payment in monetary or material goods, they are a phony and you should run away as fast as you can. They cannot find a single native culture anywhere that takes money or donations for spiritual services or teachings. It is, however, a respectful courtesy to assist with travel expenses when bringing in an elder specifically to perform a ceremony.

2) If there are any sexual connotations or expectations up to and including a coed nude ceremony in sweat lodges, you have stumbled into the web of a sexual predator. There is no such thing as a nude coed ceremony.

3) If the person leading the ceremony is mixing ceremonies such as the adding of crystals or gemstones to the use of traditional native ceremonial tools (such as drums or rattles), or peyote use in conjunction with the use of the sacred pipe, they highly suggest that you talk to a traditional elder. Native American traditional ceremonies are not a mix-and-match, anything-goes game.

4) There are no priests, shamans, kings, queens or princesses in the Native American culture. And those who claim to be are silently scoffed at. No matter what you are told, it is OK to question where their teachings originated and by whom and by what nation their authority was given.

"Without exception, the elders we have spoken with all say, 'Check out your spiritual teacher's traditional background,'" Gisselbrecht said.

"If they claim to carry animal 'medicine' they are not traditionals."

Gisselbrecht also said there are those who have conveniently found unsanctioned Native American people, some of whom are still practicing drug users and alcoholics, to portray themselves as medicine men, shaman, priests, lodge leaders, bundle keepers, and pipe carriers. Beware, he cautions, these people are dangerous.

McCathern and other Native American watchdog groups urge consumers to check out credible sources before becoming involved in Native American ceremonies.

"These are not games and when not done incorrectly can result in injury or death, not just looking silly," Gisselbrecht said. Be respectful of Native American spirituality and ceremony for your own safety and, if for no other reason, to not insult the elders.

"These men and women, who have practiced these ceremonies most of their lives, are deeply concerned when they see their sacred ways of life prostituted," Gisselbrecht said.

"Attempting to mimic these ceremonies with an 'anything goes attitude' is not a spiritual path, but one of disgrace and a display of lack of education. One Sunday Mass does not a pope make. One sweat lodge does not a medicine man make."
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:55 PM   #2
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great article

This is an important article for non natives to read, 99% is right on
the mark, but some is a bit confusing. I do not understand about the animal medicine part. I will not get into it here, of course, as many of My own realtions and many friends have been to Bear butte, and we do have Creek medicine men who would say they
have medicine (from animals). My dad was a close relation to a Bear doctor (long passed away). Maybe I missed what that particular point was. Any ideas?
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Old 01-30-2004, 01:22 PM   #3
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Question Re: Phony Medicine Men

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoMe
BEWARE OF FAKE MEDICINE MEN
by Becky Blanton - Sierra Times.com



http://sierratimes.com/04/01/13/ar_tn_blanton.htm

Native American watchdogs ... says the problem of false medicine men and Native American teachers isn't limited to just the west.


No matter what you are told, it is OK to question where their teachings originated and by whom and by what nation their authority was given.




Who are these watchdogs and out here in the west its terrible even here in the bay area we have our phonys and whats worse we have our Indians who are in fact Indian phonys holding ceremonies but if you go to different places in the area you here the talk of why some one shouldn't be holdin a ceremony. I never been to one but it not just these whites who are lead wrong its even in our own community and there are alot of watchdogs.

:(

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Old 01-30-2004, 05:42 PM   #4
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Geez.....And I was getting my Shaman Cloak Beaded too.....

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Old 01-30-2004, 07:08 PM   #5
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Old 01-31-2004, 02:36 AM   #6
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Hi
I hope this page gets out to AIM and other groups about this trash. it's gotta stop.
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Old 01-31-2004, 12:03 PM   #7
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I don't worry about them much. Of course, we have our own consultants.
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Old 01-31-2004, 03:48 PM   #8
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Hi
Does anybody has a email address to AIM about this? I'll email them about this.
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:52 AM   #9
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this really doesnt surprise me one bit because theres always a fake or phony medicine man or medicine woman every where ya go...okay i know im really ragging on deanna moore...but she has mislead alotta ppl that go to her moon ceremonies..yay she knowledgeable about moon ceremonies to an extent but she says she the white buffalo woman and im like common as if i believe that...she conducts a lakota based moon ceremony and shes anishnabe...normally the moon ceremonies i go to the ppl that have the right to conduct moon ceremonies are elders not young women...shes lied to many ppl about where she even came from...well i gotta go-becca
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:15 PM   #10
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I hope this is the place to ask this question. You have been taking about medicine men. Here that has a very specific meaning...Lots of training, life long commitment. they are very very rare now. I just want to know we are talking about the same thing. I was out east one time years ago and some folks that ran sweat, or used cedar were called Medicine men. Lots of folks have these ceremonies, or have a pipe, etc. THAT does not make you a medicine man around here. I have inherited many things from my folks, ceremonies etc. I am NOT a medicine man just a man taking care of his family. That is just a part of life.
Is it different other places. Canada?, The Dakotas? I don"t know?
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:21 PM   #11
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fakes

give the names that you know of put it on here and how they operate give the details?.
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by storm
I hope this is the place to ask this question. You have been taking about medicine men. Here that has a very specific meaning...Lots of training, life long commitment. they are very very rare now. I just want to know we are talking about the same thing. I was out east one time years ago and some folks that ran sweat, or used cedar were called Medicine men. Lots of folks have these ceremonies, or have a pipe, etc. THAT does not make you a medicine man around here. I have inherited many things from my folks, ceremonies etc. I am NOT a medicine man just a man taking care of his family. That is just a part of life.
Is it different other places. Canada?, The Dakotas? I don"t know?
Same all over. Running a sweat does not make anyone a medicine man/doctor/healer.
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Old 02-02-2004, 02:22 PM   #13
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Yep, same all over.
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:12 AM   #14
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This is a subject that I've been very interested in ~ and unfortunately had very little time to research thusfar. I would like to connect with someone who could educate me in respect to it. For my curiosity, I've come upon a couple of persons who have claimed to be Shamans ~ and have had serious doubts about the validity of their claims. It always disappoints me terribly, when I find or intuit that someone has been dishonest with me. I know that predators abound.

Someone once told me that they did spirit drawings. Ever heard of that sort of thing?
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Powwow Dancer
Hi
Does anybody has a email address to AIM about this? I'll email them about this.
What the H do you expect AIM to do about this?
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:03 AM   #16
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I am Anishnabe and I never heard of "moon ceremonies".

And spirit drawings? What is that?


Strange stuff.
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Old 10-11-2004, 03:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storm
I hope this is the place to ask this question. You have been taking about medicine men. Here that has a very specific meaning...Lots of training, life long commitment. they are very very rare now. I just want to know we are talking about the same thing. I was out east one time years ago and some folks that ran sweat, or used cedar were called Medicine men. Lots of folks have these ceremonies, or have a pipe, etc. THAT does not make you a medicine man around here. I have inherited many things from my folks, ceremonies etc. I am NOT a medicine man just a man taking care of his family. That is just a part of life.
Is it different other places. Canada?, The Dakotas? I don"t know?
Nope not around here. There is a lot more involved in being a medicine man that that.
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Old 10-11-2004, 03:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Seattle
What the H do you expect AIM to do about this?

Ditto!
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Old 10-11-2004, 04:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
I am Anishnabe and I never heard of "moon ceremonies".

And spirit drawings? What is that?


Strange stuff.
I understand that the "moon ceremony" was performed at least twice during the NDN Days Powwow back in June of this year in front of the Wells Fargo Bank in Window Rock, AZ.
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Old 10-11-2004, 04:04 PM   #20
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I think I need to clarify a few things from the article. Unfortunetly, That New Mexico "phony" medicine man was a Navajo. What makes this whole thing worst, is that he was not a phony. He is actually a medicine man and a sexual predator.

In the Navajo tradition, it take years and years of training and study. There is hardly any way someone could fake being a medicine man. There is just too much to know and learn.

Some of the things in the list of "never done by a tribal medicine man," are kinda bogus... but I'm not going to go into detail.

The only way to know if your medicine man is the real deal or bogus, is to ask around in your tribal community. If someone tells you, and you get a good one then, you are the real deal and he is the real deal. What I mean is if you are not truly Native, some medicine men do not want to be found.

I don't know about other tribes, but one thing I think Navajo's should always remember is healing ceremonies are family and community based. BEWARE a medicine man who wants you to go somewhere alone. This almost never happens. And if it does it is a brief departure during a ceremony and the family is waiting in the hogan for your return.
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