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-   -   "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles" (http://forums.powwows.com/f26/powwows-biggest-killer-eagles-36454/)

Paul G 12-24-2006 01:40 PM

"Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles"
 
In a recent story by the Wall Street Journal Eddie Benally, a Navajo conservation officer was quoted as saying that "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles".

You can read the article here, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
Powwows' Popularity

While PowWows.com supports all Eagle feather policies and regulations, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on this story.

Please see information about our support of Eagle feather policies:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=36453

Are Pow Wows causing an increase in the sales of Eagle feathers?

Is there a "Black Market" for feathers and birds?

wardancer 12-24-2006 03:13 PM

Of course there is a " Black Market " for feathers.....There's a black market for anything illegal. I myself have been approched to see if I would buy feathers. They were people I didn't know and with the penalties....there's just no way I would ever take the chance ! I wait , on the list , just like all the rest who get their feathers from the Repository. I usually order small amounts and don't have the wait that a whole bird would take. I've seen and called on some of the listings on e-bay that looked like real eagle feathers.
With the banning of DDT the eagles are again thriving ! They are no longer on the endangered species list. That's a good thing! They are still protected. That to , in my opinion is a good thing.
The greedy black market folks will get caught eventually. They can't help it. They start by selling 1.....and the longer they get away with it the easier it gets , and eventually they are selling enough that word gets out and then they get busted.
Some of the younger pow-wow people have not been taught enough about possessing feathers and some ( I think few ) resort to the black market to obtain them. I think some of the big prize money at these super contest dances is a big influence. The bigger better bustles amoung the Tradish and I've been seeing double fancy bustles....all eagle.
It takes about 3-4 years to get a bird.....How are they getting these big tail bustles , if not the black market ? Yes a few have big families , but I could almost gaurentee
that some are buying them.

WocusWoman 12-24-2006 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul G
In a recent story by the Wall Street Journal Eddie Benally, a Navajo conservation officer was quoted as saying that "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles".

You can read the article here, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
Powwows' Popularity

While PowWows.com supports all Eagle feather policies and regulations, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on this story.

Please see information about our support of Eagle feather policies:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=36453

Are Pow Wows causing an increase in the sales of Eagle feathers?

Is there a "Black Market" for feathers and birds?

Like I feel about guns, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." It is not the powwows, it is the individual people that have chosen to break the laws and those that disrespect the eagle itself. Yes, competition money could be a incentive; but I don't think most good people would obtain eagle feathers this way. It's best just to wait on the list or wait until a feather is gifted to you, it makes it that more special to myself and my family.

billyjoejimbob 12-25-2006 10:44 AM

Id like to think the black market is for feathers that people who dont dance get legally just for the purpose of selling. Im sure everyone knows someone who always has some stuff. Next time, ask where they came from. Not that they are gonna say they shot the bird, but if everyone starts questioning them and not buying, maybe they will stop.

its more honorable to dance with your own feathers than to buy them just to look good.

but Im a white guy with painted feather, so what do I know.

trob226 12-26-2006 05:49 PM

I just heard on the TV news that the bald eagle will be removed from the threatened list by the end of February.

Nezbah 12-26-2006 06:07 PM

Didn't get to see the article....

But what happened to the ole....feathers are earned not bought....??

I have always raised my lil one to honor the fact that each of the feathers he has received or given is that he earned them. We have been blessed upon receiving numerous amounts of feathers, however, I know traditionally we're never to buy them. Its like dancing, its suppose to be a earned right, not just something you do cuz you get up one day and 'feel like dancing'. I have also taught my son to give some of the feathers he has earned to those who need them. I heard wind of a very close friend son's feather dropped as he was dancing, knowing he was from a tradish family, and how he has regarding my lil one as his own brother. My lil one gifted him with another pair of feathers as he knew he'll need them at another time.

I have always known my lil one will be gifted with many many feathers but I have always taught him to give things to those who need it. If we see fit, it will be done.

I have also known some dancers who are known for 'supplying' eagle parts they have shot or hunted down. It is sad and I don't respect those who do. But its out there, if you do receive feathers, get it from the Dept of Game/Wildlife or family members, even if you do have to wait 4 or so years, good things come to those who wait.

Just the way I see it, feathers are earned and if you live life in a good way, you'll recieve them. Just like dancing, its earned.

Paul G 12-26-2006 09:37 PM

But do you all think it is as big a problem as the article implies?

Are Pow Wows really the biggest killer of Eagles?

Joe G 12-26-2006 11:06 PM

Paul...the link to the article doesn't work...it is taking me to a 'yahoo search' of the word http???? thanks...

Paul G 12-26-2006 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe G
Paul...the link to the article doesn't work...it is taking me to a 'yahoo search' of the word http???? thanks...

Try it now.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06356/748287-113.stm

TKMJ Productions 12-26-2006 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
but Im a white guy with painted feather, so what do I know.

It appears that you know honor and truth. You also seem to live by them as well! :thumbsup:

Paul, The same goes for me. The link doesn't work. Please repost and fix the link.

Ken

wardancer 12-26-2006 11:27 PM

Paul , the link works now ! I was sent the article by another friend of mine. Good article. The issue of pow-wows being the biggest killers of eagles....well I don't entirely believe that. I know there is a black market for feathers and I think the governments waiting list inspires that ! People now days are typically impatient. They don't want to have to wait , for anything.
I think the Golden Eagle population may suffer because of the pow-wow scene , but there is an enormous population of Bald Eagles. I've read that in some parts of Alaska , the Bald Eagle is considered a nuisence bird !

Blackbear 12-27-2006 04:49 AM

Yeah it's a nuisance bird to non-natives....

Is the article harsh..... that's a good question. Maybe if the article said, "competition powwows" are the biggest kiler of eagles, I would probably lean more to saying yes, but the truth is, all it takes is demand and indians are'nt the only people demanding eagle feathers.

But if you buy your feathers, you have to know that they come from most likely poached birds, or stolen outfits.... how do people live with their feathers knowing that? Not to mention these non natives who are trying to "live in indian tradition" and claiming that they need them for religious purposes? If they buy eagle feathers, how does the fact that someone shot an eagle to sell them a feather just to make money off that sale fit with their religious beliefs?

No, I dont' think it's the biggest factor in the killing of eagles but it does play a huge role in it.

Nezbah 12-27-2006 12:46 PM

I finally was able to read this article.....


Why is this haastiin Benally limiting it to only powwows? I can understand that he's trying to protect the eagles, etc but he also should know about the San Francisco Peaks protection of the lands in Flagstaff. Many many medicine men go up there to not only collect medicine but seek eagles as well. From wayyyyyyyy back we have the stories of how our elders, medicine men collect eagles, etc. I also know we're not the only tribe that used to do this. Not only do our own tribal medicine men do this but then we have all the roadmen in NAC and everyone else that uses eagles fans or parts. This shouldn't be just limited to powwows.

Powwows are the most exploited thing that we have which shows more eagle bustles, feathers, etc in public but its definitely not the only thing that will kill off the populations of eagles.

There are more things that are killin the population, like the environment, lack of forestation, the black market, etc. People want or desire more things that they are not allowed to have.

Anyhow,,,,,,,,,,,,that's my 2 cents there. Don't just sit there and blame the powwows.......... :tapedshut

billyjoejimbob 12-27-2006 01:16 PM

ya gotta love how people are so willing to give their names and how they got feathers.

funny that the 2 people who commented were 1/8th cherokee and white.

wardancer 12-27-2006 07:35 PM

I'm not Cherokee and I'm not white ! :aetsch: Not that there's anything wrong with being either !
My first feathers , a wing set , were brought to me by one of our Holy Men. I've gotten several more from others as gifts , and I've recieved about 7 wing sets from the repository , plus 4-5 misc orders from them. I do have all my papers !
I've been blessed to be able to gift away 3 eagle bustles to people that I felt deserved them and have given several fans , roach sets , plumes and drop feathers away. It how we do things.....we give
I've found that over the years , the more I give , the more I get back !
Oh , by the way , I'm Southern Cheyenne.

lostsalt 12-27-2006 08:02 PM

I've been approached many times to buy "birds". I, like a poster be-4 stated see the power from where and how it comes to you. If you had to buy them, you have not right to wear them. So i never would or will. If you deserve them, they will find their way to you. Like wise, mistreated one can find thier way outta there.


Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
ya gotta love how people are so willing to give their names and how they got feathers.

funny that the 2 people who commented were 1/8th cherokee and white.

??????????
If you'll wear 'em @ a public dance, what is the diference in posting here about 'em. billyjoejimbob i never noticed a racist remark before in your posts, Am I readin' it wrong?
Some folks may take offense @ being called white and 1\8.
You' can be less than that and still legally own "birds".
What's up wit dat?

WocusWoman 12-27-2006 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostsalt
I've been approached many times to buy "birds". I, like a poster be-4 stated see the power from where and how it comes to you. If you had to buy them, you have not right to wear them. So i never would or will. If you deserve them, they will find their way to you. Like wise, mistreated one can find thier way outta there.




??????????
If you'll wear 'em @ a public dance, what is the diference in posting here about 'em. billyjoejimbob i never noticed a racist remark before in your posts, Am I readin' it wrong?
Some folks may take offense @ being called white and 1\8.
You' can be less than that and still legally own "birds".
What's up wit dat?

I'm interested to know where you can be 1/8th and legally obtain eagle feathers? Is it one of those tribes that accepts very low blood quantum or what. As far as I know you must be 1/4th and enrolled in a Federally Recognized Tribe, to obtain the feathers and receive a legal permit to have them. I know that they can be given to another family member as long as they are native also. I'm just curious that is all. This is what is wrong, too many white people making claims on the little amount of birds the eagle repository receives each year. I betcha if the govt. really investigated all those claims, they'd find a lot of bogus ndns in their paperwork.

billyjoejimbob 12-27-2006 09:31 PM

Not a racist remark, just an observation.

It seems that (from my POV) the people with less NDN blood to none are the ones who speak about things the most when it comes to certain things, especially when they shouldn't.

"Whispering" e-a-g-l-e is just retarted. C'mon now, how may indian people NDN would say that? If he acquired them in the 60's when they were legal, why does her need to be so secretive?

And if you got them "from a freind" who got the 'legally' why say that at all.

If you have to bring up the law or put the responsibility on someone else, you shouldnt be wearing them.

1/8 is sufficient enough for some tribes but not others.

I guess I may have been a little racist or off color since I was 'thinking' bad things about the 1/8 Cherokee in the article

The question is...why not just say CHEROKEE? Why do people have to use 1/4 or 1/8 when they mention their tribe? When I hear people say 1/8 or 1/4 it makes me NOT believe them as much.

Its like the grandother who is a cherokee princess. Was there really NDN princess's?

wardancer 12-27-2006 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman
I'm interested to know where you can be 1/8th and legally obtain eagle feathers? Is it one of those tribes that accepts very low blood quantum or what. As far as I know you must be 1/4th and enrolled in a Federally Recognized Tribe, to obtain the feathers and receive a legal permit to have them. I know that they can be given to another family member as long as they are native also. I'm just curious that is all. This is what is wrong, too many white people making claims on the little amount of birds the eagle repository receives each year. I betcha if the govt. really investigated all those claims, they'd find a lot of bogus ndns in their paperwork.

That should be 1/4th OR enrolled !
Some tribes like the Cherokee and the Choctaw do not have a blood quantum. They are allowed membership via verifiable lineage. There may be other tribes that do this also , but those are the 2 I knew of.

billyjoejimbob 01-02-2007 12:57 AM

I just heard from someone else on the board (who shall remain nameless) about a certain person in a certain article about feathers.......and Im sticking by my guns.

:thumbsup:

How about everyone downplays traditional and starts liking chicken and grass this way all the money grubbers pick up the less eagle feather adorned styles. Im sure it will work.

DOWN WITH TRADITIONAL DANCING!!!

:tapedshut

imagine that!

Fine, take away my rep points!!!


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