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Old 01-16-2007, 08:59 PM   #41
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shh you diddnt hear it from me , he's been shareing his pepperroni's
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:53 PM   #42
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Its Not Real, Its A Play Doh Pizza!!! Really Officer!
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:45 AM   #43
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Awwwwwwehhh DO YOU REALISE HOW MANY PLAYDOHS ARE KILLED EVERY YEAR TO MAKE THOSE IMATATION PIZZAS ?
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Old 01-23-2007, 11:14 AM   #44
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i think the article is a good wake-up

these feathers was never meant to be judged at compititions. ive seen young people draging bussels on the ground. these feathers were never meant to be bought or sold. just like the guy in article the 1/8 cherokee. he proberly knows nothing of the feathers in creators teachings. i agree pow-wows are killing birds
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Old 01-23-2007, 11:21 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob View Post
Id like to think the black market is for feathers that people who dont dance get legally just for the purpose of selling. Im sure everyone knows someone who always has some stuff. Next time, ask where they came from. Not that they are gonna say they shot the bird, but if everyone starts questioning them and not buying, maybe they will stop.

its more honorable to dance with your own feathers than to buy them just to look good.

but Im a white guy with painted feather, so what do I know.
some painted feathers look cool. but they cant obtain the medicine you have in a wambli feather.. like playing on a cow hide drum compared to one with a buffallo. no medicine.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:19 PM   #46
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Sad but True

My attorney got this article and read it when it first came out it - he gave it to me right away.

It is very sad but it is accurate. We have seen one part of our culture "the powwow" become completely commercialized and explioted. Not all of course but so many are and so many continue to be and that has created a huge "black market" for Eagle Feathers. And when I say "huge" I mean massive. I have seen it first hand in my travels across the U.S. and Canada.

Sure the black market for feathes goes far beyond the powwow, BUT at present the statistics show that the powwows are the biggest culprit for black market Eagle Feathers.

AND that my friends is very, very sad.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:34 PM   #47
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This Thread is Very Very SAD.....

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Old 02-07-2007, 02:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trob226 View Post
Disclosure. If somebody just said Cherokee and left out the fact that they were 1/8 or 1/4 only, and you later found that out, wouldn't you feel misled? Besides, it can be complicated being mixed blood - always having to explain to the Indians about the non-Indian ways you have and explaining to the non-Indians about the Indian ways you have and all of them looking at you like you're touched in the head. You just get into the habit of describing your lineage up front to save yourself the aggravation later.
Agreed.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:21 PM   #49
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Facts

In 1782 - the year the bald eagle was formally adopted as our national emblem - bald eagles were probably flourishing, with as many as 20,000 nesting pairs in what is now the United States.

In the over 220 years since the bald eagle became our symbol of strength and freedom, it's numbers have suffered a great decline. By the late 1800's bald eagles were already restricted to their current breeding strongholds: Alaska, Canada, the Great Lakes States and the Pacific Northwest. At one time there were only 3,000 nesting pairs in the lower 48 states.

Since then, the bald eagle has recovered dramatically from the lower numbers of the 1960's and 1970's. Today there are more than 10,000 nesting pairs in the lower 48 states. In 1995, the bald eagle's status was downgraded from endangered to threatened throughout this range.

To the surprise of most people Missouri is one of the leading bald eagle states. Each fall, thousands of these great birds migrate south from their nesting range in Canada and the Great Lakes States to hunt around the open waters of our rivers and lakes.

Many take up residence wherever they find open water and plentiful food. Missouri, because of its big rivers, many lakes and wetland areas, is especially attractive to these huge, magnificent birds.

More than 2,200 bald eagles were reported in Missouri during a recent winter, making Missouri the leader in the lower 48 states.

The biggest Killer of the American Bald Eagle was "DDT"
When its use was banned in the 40's and 50's the Bald Eagle started making a comeback
The next biggest Killer was "Farmers" due to the fact it was falsely believed that Eagles killed their livestock.
Actually Eagles primary diet is Fish and the DDT was washing into the lakes and streams infecting the fish and ultimately harming the Bald Eagle.

Other killers of the Bald Eagle include electrocution as result contacting power lines, vehicle collisions, unlawful shooting and trapping, or from natural causes.

Facts

The greatest threat to the bald eagle's existence arose from the widespread use of DDT and other pesticides after World War II. DDT was sprayed on croplands throughout the country and its residues washed into lakes and streams. There, they were absorbed by aquatic plants and small animals that were eaten by fish. The contaminated fish, in turn, were consumed by bald eagles.

The chemical interfered with the bald eagle's ability to develop strong shells for its eggs. As a result, bald eagles and many other bird species began laying eggs with shells so thin they often broke during incubation or otherwise failed to hatch. Their reproduction disrupted, bald eagle populations plummeted. As the dangers of DDT became known, in large part due to Rachel Carson's famous book Silent Spring, this chemical was banned for most uses in the United States in 1972.

In addition to the adverse effects of DDT, bald eagles also died from lead poisoning as a result of feeding on hunter-killed or crippled waterfowl containing lead shot and from lead shot that was inadvertently ingested by the waterfowl. (In 1991, a 5- year program to phase out the use of lead shot for waterfowl hunting was completed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.)

Gradually, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service assembled the largest colony of breeding bald eagles in captivity at its Patuxent Wildlife Research Center near Laurel, Maryland, in a major effort to return healthy eagles to the wild (the center is now run by the National Biological Survey).

Patuxent's scientists enhanced the species' breeding potential by removing the bald eagle's first clutch of eggs and incubating them artificially. The bald eagles would usually then lay a second clutch, which the birds were allowed to incubate themselves. In all, 124 bald eagles were hatched at Patuxent.

These captive-hatched bald eagles were an important source for restocking wild populations in certain areas of the country and helped to reestablish a broader distribution. Patuxent's program came to an end in 1988, as bald eagles began to reproduce more successfully in the wild, and the center turned its efforts toward other more critically endangered species.

Some states continue reintroduction efforts, and two methods are generally used. Eaglets used for reintroduction may be captive-hatched or, since usually only two young per nest survive, they may be transferred from a bald eagle nest with a clutch of more than two.

These "extra" eaglets are placed in the nest of an adult pair whose own eggs are infertile or fail to hatch. The "foster parents" readily adopt the chicks and raise them as their own.

Another method, called hacking, is a procedure adapted from the sport of falconry. At 8 weeks of age, nestling eaglets are placed on manmade towers located in remote areas where bald eagle populations are low or non-existent. The eaglets are kept in an enclosure and fed by humans who stay out of sight. When the birds are capable of flight, at about 12 weeks old, the enclosure around the artificial nest is opened and the birds are free to leave. Food is still provided at the release site until the birds learn to fend for themselves in the wild.

With these and other recovery methods, as well as habitat improvement and the banning of DDT, the bald eagle has made a remarkable comeback. From fewer than 450 nesting pairs in the early 1960s, there are now more than 4,000 adult bald eagles nesting pairs and an unknown number of young and subadults in the conterminous United States. This represents a substantial breeding population. In the last few years, several states have had breeding bald eagles for the first time in years. While habitat loss still remains a threat to the bald eagle's full recovery, most experts agree that it is making encouraging progress. Soon our national symbol soaring the skies may become a common sight for Americans to once again behold.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:07 PM   #50
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1/8th cherokee's mom, and proud of it

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob View Post
ya gotta love how people are so willing to give their names and how they got feathers.

funny that the 2 people who commented were 1/8th cherokee and white.
I would appreciate the email address of the editor Amir Efrati that posted the story on eagle feathers. I have some feelings about his editorial I would like him to be aware of. also I would like him to know that I am the mother of Travis Thunder Lovett who he recently, professionally, took full advantage of, not to mention his collection of $4.95 per copy for his editorial and interview with my son. I assure you if you would have taken the time to truly listen to my son's words, you would not have had to reword and "distort" his comments. How dare you take our beliefs and try to turn them into something illegal and bad. You purposely engaged my young son into a conversation leading to something you could profit on. Is not my son's way to do wrong by anyone or anything. I am truly hurt that you would do this to someone you don't even know, not to mention about something you are in no way able to understand. You may be able to do what you do, but it will follow all around you., As it will also to those who have commented about my son in a negative way. Those of you that know my son are aware that he is a 3 year student at a university in Kentucky, where he has earned a scholarship in wrestling and has maintained the Deanís list with a GPA average of 3.75 every semester. I only mention this because he honors me every day, and I am very proud of him. I am very upset with these words that have been turned around to someoneís benefit, with no concern of how it may ruin anotherís reputation.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #51
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biggest killer of a native's reputation..and beleifs-- A EDITOR

I am sending this in response to a misconstrued conversation, and disrespectful aqusations written in this article.
I would appreciate the email address of the editor Amir Efrati that posted the story on eagle feathers. I have some feelings about his editorial I would like him to be aware of. also I would like him to know that I am the mother of Travis Thunder Lovett who he recently, professionally, took full advantage of, not to mention his collection of $4.95 per copy of his editorial and interview with my son. I assure you if he would have taken the time to truly listen to my son's words, he would not have had to reword and "distort" his comments. How dare you take our beliefs and try to turn them into something illegal and bad. You purposely engaged my young son into a conversation leading to something you could profit on. Is not my son's way to do wrong by anyone or anything. I am truly hurt that you would do this to someone you don't even know, not to mention about something you are in no way able to understand. You may be able to do what you do, but it will follow all around you., As it will also to those who have commented about my son in a negative way. Those of you that know my son are aware that he is a 3 year student at a university in Kentucky, where he has earned a scholarship in wrestling and has maintained the Deanís list with a GPA average of 3.75 every semester. I only mention this because he honors me every day, and I am very proud of him. I am very upset with these words that have been turned around to someoneís benefit, with no concern of how it may ruin anotherís reputation. from a proud mother!
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:17 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie lovett View Post
I am sending this in response to a misconstrued conversation, and disrespectful aqusations written in this article.
I would appreciate the email address of the editor Amir Efrati that posted the story on eagle feathers. I have some feelings about his editorial I would like him to be aware of. also I would like him to know that I am the mother of Travis Thunder Lovett who he recently, professionally, took full advantage of, not to mention his collection of $4.95 per copy of his editorial and interview with my son. I assure you if he would have taken the time to truly listen to my son's words, he would not have had to reword and "distort" his comments. How dare you take our beliefs and try to turn them into something illegal and bad. You purposely engaged my young son into a conversation leading to something you could profit on. Is not my son's way to do wrong by anyone or anything. I am truly hurt that you would do this to someone you don't even know, not to mention about something you are in no way able to understand. You may be able to do what you do, but it will follow all around you., As it will also to those who have commented about my son in a negative way. Those of you that know my son are aware that he is a 3 year student at a university in Kentucky, where he has earned a scholarship in wrestling and has maintained the Deanís list with a GPA average of 3.75 every semester. I only mention this because he honors me every day, and I am very proud of him. I am very upset with these words that have been turned around to someoneís benefit, with no concern of how it may ruin anotherís reputation. from a proud mother!

Ms. Lovett,

Travis is my buddy.

Check your PM and you will find Mr. Efrati's direct email address.

I request that you post Mr. Efrati's response on powwows.com?
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:30 PM   #53
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Ms. Lovett,

Travis is my buddy.

Check your PM and you will find Mr. Efrati's direct email address.

I request that you post Mr. Efrati's response on powwows.com?
I am awaiting his response, thankyou
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:55 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn View Post
Agreed.
Very few only have a slim idea of how it is in the middle of 2 worlds, trying to uphold your honor for just who you are, where you came from and living day after day having to answer why you are indian or suffering the comments because you are not indian enough. I am new to this site, I only recently started reading comments after my son was eronously interviewed by a new york editor, who said some very twisted things. I appreciate all positive thoughts for my son, 'Travis, right now because he is seriously going thru some hard times. Due to comments in the article, i asked
travis that maybe he not dance for awhile, his comment back to me was, "Mama, I've done nothing to be ashamed of and I'm not giving up what I believe in, he will be at the
gathering this year, regardless of what has been said. He will not be forced to quit, in fact he says he is going to blow it out this year, all the way, with everything he has. everyone's prayer's would greatly be appreciated. he's a good kid, in a hard, very hard place.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:33 AM   #55
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I have never heard of the ''kill a bird for religious purposes permit" anyone else???

Any NDN I know would be furious to hear that someone has killed one of our messengers, and might kill the person that did it. lol

I support all laws regarding this issue and would be quick to turn in anyone that I knew committed such an act.

Anywayz here's another link.http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/eagleslaughter/

It's about a year old but it's because of things like this that stories get written and I think they should.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:11 PM   #56
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There is a Permit To Take Eagles.

Anishinabealltheway and others:

Don't forget that before all the laws were even in exsistence, Warriors did kill and take Eagles. They did not get all their Eagle Parts from dead Eagles in the past. They had to take live Eagles from time to time. There were various ways to do this all across Native America with all kinds of Eagle traps, pits, snags, etc.

AND:

According to the The Department of the Interior, a permit system to kill and take Eagles does exists. It is designed to accommodate Native American religious needs that can't be satisfied by the eagle carcasses distributed by the repository.

Most people are unaware of the permit program

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which is part of the Interior Department, has never publicized the existence of these permit system. Moreover, as of 2006 the government had received just 11 applications for such permits and approved only five of them.

So, if one got the permit and followed the rites correctly and carefully, killing and taking a Ealge for the right reasons is perfectly allowed both in the Red World and the White World.
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Old 02-24-2007, 02:40 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Iron Eagle View Post
Anishinabealltheway and others:

Don't forget that before all the laws were even in exsistence, Warriors did kill and take Eagles. They did not get all their Eagle Parts from dead Eagles in the past. They had to take live Eagles from time to time. There were various ways to do this all across Native America with all kinds of Eagle traps, pits, snags, etc.

AND:

According to the The Department of the Interior, a permit system to kill and take Eagles does exists. It is designed to accommodate Native American religious needs that can't be satisfied by the eagle carcasses distributed by the repository.

Most people are unaware of the permit program

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which is part of the Interior Department, has never publicized the existence of these permit system. Moreover, as of 2006 the government had received just 11 applications for such permits and approved only five of them.

So, if one got the permit and followed the rites correctly and carefully, killing and taking a Ealge for the right reasons is perfectly allowed both in the Red World and the White World.
Thanks for clarifying I wouldn't apply for that kind of permit but it's interesting to know.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:11 PM   #58
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Yes, Killing is a part of our culture.

You are more than welcome, and I understand your concern. At first I could not think about actually killing an Ealge either, but then I thought long and hard about how our people did get the things they needed and now how we get other things we need today like buckskin, claws, fur, etc. Somebody has to kill the bear, deer, buffalo, elk, otter, beaver, lynk, porcupine, turkey, grouse, and on and on for the many animal parts that are a part of our culture.

Some of the above are farmed raised, but it is hoped that they are farmed raised for the right reason - either for protection to exist or for meat and more and not just for certain animal parts. But we know that many above are raised only for animal parts like fur and more.

A few years ago a very good Haida friend told me about the permit they have to get to kill a whale. And then I read about the permits that some Inuit get to kill whales and or sea lions.

We have to remember that all of The Creator's Creatures are special and spiritual - each Tribe is different as to the meanings on how important and regarded each animal is.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:19 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul G View Post
In a recent story by the Wall Street Journal Eddie Benally, a Navajo conservation officer was quoted as saying that "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles".

You can read the article here, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
Powwows' Popularity

While PowWows.com supports all Eagle feather policies and regulations, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on this story.

Please see information about our support of Eagle feather policies:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=36453

Are Pow Wows causing an increase in the sales of Eagle feathers?

Is there a "Black Market" for feathers and birds?
i just read the article, and i agree with it, for the most part. i do not beleive that powwows are to blame, i beleive it is dishonest natives. i know it is hard,but they should apply to whatever they can to get the feathers, and be patient. my Grandfather has always told me, "Son, if you dont want it bad enough to wait for it, then you dont want it bad enough." He is a very wise man, and i will miss him greatly when he goes.

wado for reading,
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:09 PM   #60
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i have just read the article, and i agree with it...forthe most part. i donot beleive it is powwows that are supporting the illegal killing/selling of eagles, it is the individual natives who choose to break the law and take the chance of getting caught and destroying the eagle population. i know the waiting lists are long, but my grandfather has always told me "Son, if you dont want it bad enough to wait for it, you dont want it bad enough." this is what i live by, and these impatient people need to as well.
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