[anishinabealltheway]

Originally Posted by nativeproud

i have just read the article, and i agree with it...forthe most part. i donot beleive it is powwows that are supporting the illegal killing/selling of eagles, it is the individual natives who choose to break the law and take the chance of getting caught and destroying the eagle population. i know the waiting lists are long, but my grandfather has always told me "Son, if you dont want it bad enough to wait for it, you dont want it bad enough." this is what i live by, and these impatient people need to as well.

Unfortunately, the eagle population isn't the only thing these poachers are destroying. The reputation of our people as protectors of the land is also sullied by this.

Your grandfather sounds like a smart guy.

[StereoTypicalHarley]

Originally Posted by anishinabealltheway

Unfortunately, the eagle population isn't the only thing these poachers are destroying. The reputation of our people as protectors of the land is also sullied by this.

Your grandfather sounds like a smart guy.

wado for that, he is a very wise man, though i fear i will miss him shortly.:(

and i aggree with you completely about these impatient people ruining the reputation of our people as protectors of the earth.

[ntownn8ive]

Haven't really read thru this thread thoroughly, but I got this in the mail, anyone know either of these dudes?:

EVENT ORGANIZER ALERT
Greetings,
Although for several years I have attempted to curtail the activities of Edward Arthur Pilert III, aka Ed Winddancer (http://www.edwinddancer.com/), my attempts have been futile due to the vast amount of shamery involved with American Indian events throughout the United States. Mr. Pilert has attempted to pass himself off as Lakota, at other times as a Cherokee and recently and most currently as a Nanticoke. He belongs to none of these nations or tribes.
In 2005 Mr. Pilert bartered eagle feathers with an undercover agent for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service over several occasions. Subsequently, Mr. Pilert was charged by Federal authorities and a disturbing number of protected bird parts were found in his motorhome. The bird parts and motorhome were confiscated.
Last year Mr. Pilert filed a Motion to Dismiss the Indictment. It makes for interesting reading and I have provided the link so that you can read the opinion that was rendered. I've inserted a small section of the opinion below. Please pay close attention to the second paragraph.
Shortly, Mr. Pilert will be tried in Federal Court. I sincerely hope that he receives the maximum penalties for his crimes. However, I am more concerned that this person not remain a welcome representative of American Indian culture and American Indians at any event in the United States. Mr. Pilert has sucked money and fame from his false and erroneous misrepresentations and now has blighted American Indians nationwide. The time has come for this to end. I hope you agree.
Jimmy Boy Dial
Editor, The Spike
www.thespike.com
http://www.animallaw.info/cases/causfd2006wl1722432.htm (Michigan University College of law)
United States District Court, M.D. Tennessee, Nashville Division
U.S. v. Winddancer
United States
2006 WL 1722432 (M.D.Tenn.)
[EXCERPT]
1. A Sincere Exercise of Religion
The defendant bears the initial burden of demonstrating that the regulations at issue substantially burden a sincere religious belief. Yoder, 406 U.S. at 215 (beliefs that are "philosophical and personal rather than religious ... [do] not rise to the demands of the Religion Clauses"). Although the defendant has shown that the BGEPA substantially burdens his ability to possess eagle feathers--under BGEPA, he may not possess them--he has not shown that his desire to possess the feathers arises from a sincere religious belief.
The defendant has identified at least some Native American ancestry on both sides of his genealogy. According to the defendant, his father had Cherokee ancestry, and his mother Nanticoke ancestry. (Docket No. 30 at p. 2-3.) In addition, he alleges to have been formally admitted as an associate member to the Nanticoke tribe (which is not federally recognized), and to have been adopted by a Lakota family. (Id.) He is not a member of the Lakota tribe, however, or the Cherokee tribe. (Id.) According to the materials attached to the defendant's brief, the Nanticoke people are indigenous to Delaware. (Docket No. 30, Ex. 2.) The Cherokee tribe and Lakota tribe are each, respectively, located in different geographic areas. The people of these tribes each practice their own religions; however, the defendant does not identify which of them, if any, he practices. Rather, he alleges to be a "sincere adherent to a bona fide Native American religion," and that he "exercises that religion through sacred dances." (Docket No. 30 at p. 3.) The defendant does not support that allegation with any documents or affidavits, nor does he identify to which specific Native American religion he adheres. Therefore, he has not met his initial burden under the RFRA to demonstrate that his possession of eagle feathers arises from a sincere religious belief, and not a cultural or philosophical expression. See, e.g., Diaz v. Collins, 114 F.3d 69, 72 (5th Cir.1997) (defendant bears the burden of demonstrating a substantial burden to a sincere religious belief).
[END]

[Wakalapi]

Originally Posted by ntownn8ive

Haven't really read thru this thread thoroughly, but I got this in the mail, anyone know either of these dudes?:

EVENT ORGANIZER ALERT
Greetings,
Although for several years I have attempted to curtail the activities of Edward Arthur Pilert III, aka Ed Winddancer (http://www.edwinddancer.com/), my attempts have been futile due to the vast amount of shamery involved with American Indian events throughout the United States. Mr. Pilert has attempted to pass himself off as Lakota, at other times as a Cherokee and recently and most currently as a Nanticoke. He belongs to none of these nations or tribes.
In 2005 Mr. Pilert bartered eagle feathers with an undercover agent for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service over several occasions. Subsequently, Mr. Pilert was charged by Federal authorities and a disturbing number of protected bird parts were found in his motorhome. The bird parts and motorhome were confiscated.
Last year Mr. Pilert filed a Motion to Dismiss the Indictment. It makes for interesting reading and I have provided the link so that you can read the opinion that was rendered. I've inserted a small section of the opinion below. Please pay close attention to the second paragraph.
Shortly, Mr. Pilert will be tried in Federal Court. I sincerely hope that he receives the maximum penalties for his crimes. However, I am more concerned that this person not remain a welcome representative of American Indian culture and American Indians at any event in the United States. Mr. Pilert has sucked money and fame from his false and erroneous misrepresentations and now has blighted American Indians nationwide. The time has come for this to end. I hope you agree.
Jimmy Boy Dial
Editor, The Spike
www.thespike.com
http://www.animallaw.info/cases/causfd2006wl1722432.htm (Michigan University College of law)
United States District Court, M.D. Tennessee, Nashville Division
U.S. v. Winddancer
United States
2006 WL 1722432 (M.D.Tenn.)
[EXCERPT]
1. A Sincere Exercise of Religion
The defendant bears the initial burden of demonstrating that the regulations at issue substantially burden a sincere religious belief. Yoder, 406 U.S. at 215 (beliefs that are "philosophical and personal rather than religious ... [do] not rise to the demands of the Religion Clauses"). Although the defendant has shown that the BGEPA substantially burdens his ability to possess eagle feathers--under BGEPA, he may not possess them--he has not shown that his desire to possess the feathers arises from a sincere religious belief.
The defendant has identified at least some Native American ancestry on both sides of his genealogy. According to the defendant, his father had Cherokee ancestry, and his mother Nanticoke ancestry. (Docket No. 30 at p. 2-3.) In addition, he alleges to have been formally admitted as an associate member to the Nanticoke tribe (which is not federally recognized), and to have been adopted by a Lakota family. (Id.) He is not a member of the Lakota tribe, however, or the Cherokee tribe. (Id.) According to the materials attached to the defendant's brief, the Nanticoke people are indigenous to Delaware. (Docket No. 30, Ex. 2.) The Cherokee tribe and Lakota tribe are each, respectively, located in different geographic areas. The people of these tribes each practice their own religions; however, the defendant does not identify which of them, if any, he practices. Rather, he alleges to be a "sincere adherent to a bona fide Native American religion," and that he "exercises that religion through sacred dances." (Docket No. 30 at p. 3.) The defendant does not support that allegation with any documents or affidavits, nor does he identify to which specific Native American religion he adheres. Therefore, he has not met his initial burden under the RFRA to demonstrate that his possession of eagle feathers arises from a sincere religious belief, and not a cultural or philosophical expression. See, e.g., Diaz v. Collins, 114 F.3d 69, 72 (5th Cir.1997) (defendant bears the burden of demonstrating a substantial burden to a sincere religious belief).
[END]

Just a quick comment that according to Mr. Wind Dancer's website, he was adopted into the Medicine family at Wakpala, SD. My family is also from Wakpala, but I haven't been "back home" since I was 13 and do not know the Medicines or their reason behind making a familial adoption. Being adopted by one family, however, is not the same as being adopted by a tribe or nation. I do not have to accept Mr. Wind Dancer as "my relative" based on his adoption by the Medicine family, and neither do descendants of any other family. Though, I guess, if were to become friends I suppose that would be our choices. There appears to be no legal basis* for the man to possess eagle feathers based solely on that adoption. As far as a cultural basis or sacred reasons, I am not in the position of authority to affirm or rebuke that decision.

*I am not an attorney at law. I have not achieve a Doctorate of Jurisprudence nor passed the Bar Exam in any State. Use my legal advice at your own risk. I like pizza and walks on the beach. At the same time. So stay off the beach when I'm driving.

[anishinabealltheway]

The link to wind dancer's website didn't work but I googled his name and found it easily. Looks to me like just another wannabe eagle killer to me. I say let him burn.

[whitewave]

It is so sad to me the things that money does to people. I am not a Christian, but the Bible had it right when it said "money is the root of all evil". It is sooo true! It is depressing to me to think that some people have the greed and darkness in their hearts to kill such a beautiful and sacred animal for profit. Don't they understand that if it continues these species (or any other that are poached) could go extinct??! I DO NOT understand people having apathy for these things! I wish all could understand and respect the laws of nature! It seems to me that the Great Spirit would look upon this act as a detestable thing. If you are BUYING a black market carcuss OR feather....doesnt that defeat the whole purpose?
As far as pow wows being the biggest killer of Eagles....who knows? They may be the biggest reason for poaching eagles, but they are dying from much more than just poaching. To me this is another way for the "man" to point fingers at natives once again....

[whitewave]

Originally Posted by trob226

Disclosure. If somebody just said Cherokee and left out the fact that they were 1/8 or 1/4 only, and you later found that out, wouldn't you feel misled? Besides, it can be complicated being mixed blood - always having to explain to the Indians about the non-Indian ways you have and explaining to the non-Indians about the Indian ways you have and all of them looking at you like you're touched in the head. You just get into the habit of describing your lineage up front to save yourself the aggravation later.

Yea, really its kinda' complicated. I AM Cherokee, I AM Sioux, I AM Irish and I AM Scottish. I was not raised in any of the traditions of any of these cultures really. I was not taught about any of my family history, traditions, nothing. I learned on my own. I feel a special connection and draw to my Native roots and I can't really say why....so I will admit that I have focused on learning more about the Native history of my ancestry and traditions than Irish or Scottish, but I have looked into all of it. Its really hard because I have quite a bit less Cherokee and Sioux than I do Irish, but I can't explain this magnetic pull back to the red road inside me. I have always been a very free thinker, and the core of my belief system, spirituality, mindset, etc. Is in harmony and agreement with the core of the teachings, beliefs, mindset etc. of my Cherokee ancestors. I feel like my heart has always beat to the drum of my Native ancestors and my spirit longs for the red road. However if you look at me all you will say is "white girl" at first glance. If you look into my soul you will see I am far from just that. My bloodlines are complicated and so am I. The technicalities are something I have a hard time with. I understand that that is the way it is though.

[whitewave]

Originally Posted by anishinabealltheway

Unfortunately, the eagle population isn't the only thing these poachers are destroying. The reputation of our people as protectors of the land is also sullied by this.

Your grandfather sounds like a smart guy.

That is very true. I think its so sad what money does to people. The whole idea defeats the purpose! It doesnt make sense to me. Isnt the whole idea of the importance of the eagle feathers the connection with The Spirit?? Isnt that where it came from? If you can buy them doesnt that put a shadow on the ones who really earned them like they are supposed to? People are greedy (period). To me that's like cheating but cheating on a spiritual level which is somethin I wouldn't mess with to be honest. Sad! Hopefully the more people talk about it the more people who do it will realize the shame in it!

[TsiyaGeyaWillis]

tlano comment.

[TsiyaGeyaWillis]

We have had a few eagles get wise to the idea of fishing, by watching those, who put there semoni(salmon) on a line. The Eagle swoops down, grabs the line and is gone. Quite a site to behold! Kodiak Island is also a good place to seeing Eagles as well as Golden Eagles. You will see them everywhere, as thick as flys. It's the truth! (Just ask me a question and I'll give you a heart to heart answer.)

[StereoTypicalHarley]

Originally Posted by TsiyaGeyaWillis

There are 30,000+ Eagles in Alaska. On my grandmother's 300+acres there are 20 nests. We watch them repair their nests, we watch them with their babies, we watch them when they start to teach them how to fly & hunt. There are all kinds of feathers below their nests. Is it wrong for my grandmother or I to use one feather, for our prayers & healing? We don't think so...We don't harm a bird or anything else for that matter, we offer prayers, and thanks, to honor that animal, and thank Creator for giving us these wonderful animals, as well as the plants, the trees, the NvWati(medicine) they all offer us. It is our way of communicating with Creator and Etsi Elohino(Mother Earth)....We give thanks to Etsi Elohino for all that she provides us...We are the only ones that have to prove who we are, by showing our cards, this is how the Yonegas(whitemen) have control over us and to count how many of us there are, we aren't free with these cards, were just a number to the Yonegas, which is very sad.....When they thought they had destroyed us, we were only made stronger when we inter-bred with others, now we are Native Strong in our numbers once again.....
Remember, the blankets of long ago, infected with small pox & other things, well those FEMA trailers they have killed lots of people for the one main ingredient that they put into making these trailers, then they give them to our people and it starts all over again.....

I do not believe there is anything wrong with accepting these gifts. What few feathers you "collect", are meant for you. Each feather has a purpose, which is only known to you. I do believe it is wrong to buy feathers for prayer (except from repositories). I know not all dancers have access to hunting, but I believe it is wrong to just walk into a store and buy them. but this is just me. It is wrong how commercialized the yonega have made our people. Every little conveniance store and truckstop figurine, dreamcatcher, and costume headdress should be burned and banned. They are trying to make money off of our people's image, and steriotypes against our people. It is wrong for ANYBODY to do this. But you are doing right, if you feel creator and those eagles want you to have certain feathers, than they are yours.

-Joshua

[StereoTypicalHarley]

Originally Posted by whitewave

Yea, really its kinda' complicated. I AM Cherokee, I AM Sioux, I AM Irish and I AM Scottish. I was not raised in any of the traditions of any of these cultures really. I was not taught about any of my family history, traditions, nothing. I learned on my own. I feel a special connection and draw to my Native roots and I can't really say why....so I will admit that I have focused on learning more about the Native history of my ancestry and traditions than Irish or Scottish, but I have looked into all of it. Its really hard because I have quite a bit less Cherokee and Sioux than I do Irish, but I can't explain this magnetic pull back to the red road inside me. I have always been a very free thinker, and the core of my belief system, spirituality, mindset, etc. Is in harmony and agreement with the core of the teachings, beliefs, mindset etc. of my Cherokee ancestors. I feel like my heart has always beat to the drum of my Native ancestors and my spirit longs for the red road. However if you look at me all you will say is "white girl" at first glance. If you look into my soul you will see I am far from just that. My bloodlines are complicated and so am I. The technicalities are something I have a hard time with. I understand that that is the way it is though.

Just read my signature. It speaks volume, and has helped my through alot.

[whitewave]

Originally Posted by nativeproud

Just read my signature. It speaks volume, and has helped my through alot.

Thank you. I have. I love that one! It does help. I believe that fully too.

[Cuetzpallincihuatl]

Originally Posted by Sahnish

Pow Wow's aren't the biggest killer of eagles. People are the biggest killer of eagles. People with no traditions. Among the traditional people on the plains, eagle feathers are earned for acts of bravery. Maybe we need to start calling on those people wearing those feathers and have them tell their stories of bravery to the people, like the veteran's do when they pick up a feather.

Now that would be interesting to hear.

We must deserve the feather! Usually the Wind is the one that brings a feather to your hair... Love, Cuetzpallincihuatl, from Mexico City... (I'm an Aztec Indian)...

[Cuetzpallincihuatl]

Originally Posted by trob226

Indian Barbie at Powwow! High-heeled moccasins! It'll sell! But probably not to Indian kids.

So sad to read about it... The Barbie doll belongs to white people, white girls, belongs to the material world... to the fashion contemporary world, with no soul, no heart..... Sad. Love you, brothers and sisters. Cuetzpallincihuatl, an Aztec Indian.

[Cuetzpallincihuatl]

Originally Posted by nativeproud

Just read my signature. It speaks volume, and has helped my through alot.

If I say: I am Indian, then I speak, do, wear, walk, think, dream, respect, love, help, sing and dance as indian here and there! - My blood could have german roots, but my heart beats as the drums with indian lifestyle.... with indian respect and honour always, caring for the Mother Earth, the father Wind, our grandparents heritage, our little brothers the animals, the trees... - The Red Road is my Path, our Path... We are or we are not, but in my case, I am a red warrior woman, I was born in indian land and proud to be an Aztec Indian. Love you, Cuetzpallincihuatl.

[StereoTypicalHarley]

Aho!

[warriorsociety06]

Originally Posted by Paul G

In a recent story by the Wall Street Journal Eddie Benally, a Navajo conservation officer was quoted as saying that "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles".

You can read the article here, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
Powwows' Popularity

While PowWows.com supports all Eagle feather policies and regulations, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on this story.

Please see information about our support of Eagle feather policies:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=36453

Are Pow Wows causing an increase in the sales of Eagle feathers?

Is there a "Black Market" for feathers and birds?

well first of all you need to take a look at the tribes that are getting involved in these pow wows before you start blaming. That's where you'll find the EAGLE KILLERS. I get my eagle from the migratory act. I use them for traditional purposes ONLY! I respect this bird and we use his feathers to carry our prayers. Ask for permission from the elders before making or putting on an outfit. Now days it is just for money and not for your spiritual healing . that's all

[Metasonya120691]

Originally Posted by Paul G

But do you all think it is as big a problem as the article implies?

Are Pow Wows really the biggest killer of Eagles?

A pow-wow is, in a sense, a function, functions do not kill eagles, or anything else for that matter. I find it absurd to be blaming POW-WOWS for the kills of these sacred birds. People kill them, not functions. I think the reporters just need to get their heads out of their butts and realize that its not the function that's killing these birds, its people who don't know what the heck their doing.

As for the people selling these feathers on the black market, well...there's just no excuse, and i doubt even Einstein could come up with one at this point, its senseless, and honestly immature.

I read that someone said something about asking where some people get their feathers and i agree 100%, if we start asking questions, they'll start backing down in fear that they will get caught.

[OgamaWab10]

no we are not the biggest killers to eagles. Big companys R