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Old 02-13-2004, 12:18 PM   #1
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Raven Circle Earthlodge

What can I say... this is an outrage!

If you read... these are white people doing this.

http://www.ravencircle.com/questions.html#offer


This is the link that tells about them...

http://www.ravencircle.com/about_us.htm
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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

Last edited by Mato Winyan; 02-13-2004 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:28 PM   #2
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Good lord, here we go again!
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:46 PM   #3
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Re: Raven Circle Earthlodge

Quote:
Originally posted by Mato Winyan
What can I say... this is an outrage!

If you read... these are white people doing this.

http://www.ravencircle.com/questions.html#offer


This is the link that tells about them...

http://www.ravencircle.com/about_us.htm
Legitimate Indian spiritual leaders donít have business cards calling themselves shamans, or have websites soliciting money for their "services". They don't conduct seminars, sweatlodges, or sun dances and charge hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend, nor do they openly talk about spiritual ceremonies to non-Indians. In fact, outsiders rarely know who these spiritual leaders are, even though they may have regular contact with them.
The stereotype image of an old holy man sequestered on a mountaintop, chanting rituals and existing on spirituality is fantasy. The truth is that many of these people have regular jobs in their pre-retirement years, because true spiritual leaders NEVER charge for their help. It is customary for the person or family requesting the services of a spiritual leader or healer to present them with a monetary or material gifts.

But there are numerous "fake Indians" (and undoubtedly a few real ones) who are distorting Indian spirituality to make money. Real Indian ceremonies generally take place on Indian land, owned by a Federally-recognized Indian Tribe, and are never open to outsiders, not even for money. Don't get ripped off by these frauds. They are just the new-age version of greedy, insincere televangelists
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Old 02-13-2004, 01:07 PM   #4
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Hi
This just blew it!!:Yell :Yell What The He** they gotta cook up next?
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Old 02-13-2004, 01:13 PM   #5
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quote from the site you posted

"Don's preliminary exposure to shamanism was through his uncle who taught him about seeing and the healing work of his great-grandmother, a Mohawk Indian." end quote


so where is her white???? I guess I am reading a different part of the story that you asked us to look at???

the only thing I find deplorable is that this ritual is on the web period, nothing more nothing less,,, my 2 cents
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tibiki Kinew
quote from the site you posted

"Don's preliminary exposure to shamanism was through his uncle who taught him about seeing and the healing work of his great-grandmother, a Mohawk Indian." end quote


so where is her white???? I guess I am reading a different part of the story that you asked us to look at???

the only thing I find deplorable is that this ritual is on the web period, nothing more nothing less,,, my 2 cents
The one "claiming" great gramma blood is the guy... no where does the female say anything about native roots.... (and also I was privy to photos and other info that are separate from this. ;) )

Quote:
Lorraine is an energy worker and Reiki Master and walks her path in balance and joy. She leads women's sweat lodges and full-moon ceremony. While living in the Southwest, she travelled frequently to Mexico. The Curanderas, Yaqui Indians and Southern Seers that she met there allowed her the opportunities that constantly challenged her perspectives and enforced for her that each individual's perceptions are true. She has had opportunities to broaden her path through her association with Native American elders. Part of her path is celebrated through her creations of beadwork, elaborate gardens and sacred art.

Here is a link they list on their site... this doesn't say native to me either

http://www.cyberbohemia.com/Pages/sweat.htm

and here is a photo of Don Voss
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:13 PM   #7
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Geez, I despise this New Age Shamanist/spiritualist lets-take-various-ceremonies-from-different-beliefs-and-mix-them-all-up crap. I guess since white folks have no real culture of their own they figure to make up for that by ripping off whatever looks good from as many other cultures as they can, always with the excuse that they are "honoring" that culture. Then they call us "ignorant" for being offended. Oh, please!
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:23 PM   #8
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Maybe we should all send them indignant emails...or would they try to put on their website that they hear constantly from Native Americans from all over and fail to mention just what they are hearing?
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mato Winyan
The one "claiming" great gramma blood is the guy... no where does the female say anything about native roots.... (and also I was privy to photos and other info that are separate from this. ;) )




Here is a link they list on their site... this doesn't say native to me either

http://www.cyberbohemia.com/Pages/sweat.htm

and here is a photo of Don Voss
Nothing but a bunch of fakwin idiots looking to exploit native people......:Mad
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Old 02-14-2004, 02:17 PM   #10
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Oh My Gawd!!!
Where the hell is The Rat when you need him?!?!

Not only it this the stoopidest thing I've ever seen, but that is easily one of the ugliest whities it has ever been my misfortune to look upon. What the hell is wrong with these people? I think there is something in white people's genes that makes them all theives and psychos. I don't think they can be cured, or reasoned with.
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Old 02-14-2004, 09:34 PM   #11
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ARe these the same two that live close to Durham in Canada??? If so, they had this huge thing planned like this and alotof the natives from that area politely protested and kept it from happening. Why is it with some people that you teach them something that fills a void or makes them feel good, they gotta bottle it up and market it to make money?
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Old 02-15-2004, 01:50 AM   #12
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=1523

:Mad
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Old 02-15-2004, 03:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blackbear
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=1523

:Mad
Those people just dont get it, do they?

OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR CULTURE OUR WAYS ARE NOT FOR SALE!!!!!


Not that "book" has anything to do with it *snicker*
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Old 02-15-2004, 07:25 PM   #14
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Angry

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverwoman
Those people just dont get it, do they?

OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR CULTURE OUR WAYS ARE NOT FOR SALE!!!!!


Not that "book" has anything to do with it *snicker*
Rouger that RW times 2 :Mad :Yell
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Old 02-15-2004, 08:12 PM   #15
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I have obviously missed the boat...
I guess I could be a millionare guru by now...
I give you all permission to hunt me down if I go that far...
You know. If they really belived in these way they would not do this...
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Old 02-15-2004, 10:19 PM   #16
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Well, most whites-not all, but most- really worship money and power. And not just whites but many others-blacks, hispanics, asians, even some Natives. Everything is for sale to them, everything has a price, everyone has a price. Power is part of that greed, or powerlust, I should say. They want to be like God, want to have people follow them, adore them, look up to them.

There is in each of us a place in our deepest heart reserved for the Creator, the place where He lives and speaks with us. When He is not present in someone's life, they try other things to fill that place, but nothing else can. Their insecurity makes them needy and there is an arrogance in such people which makes them think that they are so much more special, so much more enlightened, more spiritual. They think of themselves as chosen to lead others to this so-called spiritual enlightenment. They also think they deserve to be well-rewarded for their "ministry", and sure enough they always find suckers willing to pay beaucoup bucks for said enlightenment. As King Solomon said, "A fool and his money are soon parted." These people hone in on fools.

If you try to tell them that they can reach the Creator for free, all they need do is quiet themselves and listen for Him, they call you an idiot. If you tell them that fasting and praying, not dollars and seminars, will open up their hearts and minds to receive Him, they think you're a fool. Usually, you can't really tell them anything. These people will argue with an elder and tell him or her that he or she is wrong because some book they read or some ceremony/seminar they attended said otherwise.

Anyway you look at it, it's both sad and disgusting.
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Old 02-15-2004, 10:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsanuwa Usgolv
Well, most whites-not all, but most- really worship money and power. And not just whites but many others-blacks, hispanics, asians, even some Natives. Everything is for sale to them, everything has a price, everyone has a price. Power is part of that greed, or powerlust, I should say. They want to be like God, want to have people follow them, adore them, look up to them.

There is in each of us a place in our deepest heart reserved for the Creator, the place where He lives and speaks with us. When He is not present in someone's life, they try other things to fill that place, but nothing else can. Their insecurity makes them needy and there is an arrogance in such people which makes them think that they are so much more special, so much more enlightened, more spiritual. They think of themselves as chosen to lead others to this so-called spiritual enlightenment. They also think they deserve to be well-rewarded for their "ministry", and sure enough they always find suckers willing to pay beaucoup bucks for said enlightenment. As King Solomon said, "A fool and his money are soon parted." These people hone in on fools.

If you try to tell them that they can reach the Creator for free, all they need do is quiet themselves and listen for Him, they call you an idiot. If you tell them that fasting and praying, not dollars and seminars, will open up their hearts and minds to receive Him, they think you're a fool. Usually, you can't really tell them anything. These people will argue with an elder and tell him or her that he or she is wrong because some book they read or some ceremony/seminar they attended said otherwise.

Anyway you look at it, it's both sad and disgusting.
I could not have said it better myself:clapping:
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Old 02-16-2004, 03:34 AM   #18
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Perhaps the Mowhawks need to make it very clear to this doot that they don't like his little pink self or his little pink wife soiling the good name of their great nation??
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