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Old 08-26-2008, 06:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by beeleaf View Post
Don't care what they do to the fake tribes. But there appear to be some legitimate folks in that slide show. Haliwa-Saponi and Lumbee, for example.
I noticed that too, and wasn't sure if they were listing State recognized tribes or tribes that were fraudulent or something else. It didn't say.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:25 PM   #22
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News From Indian Country - $22 million awarded Cherokee group

the cheorekee who???
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by beeleaf View Post
Don't care what they do to the fake tribes. But there appear to be some legitimate folks in that slide show. Haliwa-Saponi and Lumbee, for example.
They were using examples of State Recognized tribes
And how States dont have a Standard Process to approve or disapprove tribes seeking State Recognition
We all know the Lumbee Struggle since the 1950's for Federal Recognition
However there is a group calling themselves the United Lumbee tribe of NC
Which was North Carolina and now live in Northern California
and recently have moved to Arizona
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgirl7 View Post
I noticed that too, and wasn't sure if they were listing State recognized tribes or tribes that were fraudulent or something else. It didn't say.
It is a complex subject follow the links that I have provided and read, I have continue reading and am still finding tidbits.
I was reading a copy of the mins from a Senate Committee Meeting chaired by John McCain last year and even he was concerned at the barrage that has occured from so called tribes looking for recognition
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:22 PM   #25
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Everyone wants a casino, get money ,free education, to wear eagle feathers and take peyote.... that's all they see of us recognized anymore.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:36 PM   #26
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Everyone wants a casino, get money ,free education, to wear eagle feathers and take peyote.... that's all they see of us recognized anymore.
Here is a new spin on things!!!

The Sovereign Cherokee Nation Tejas should, therefore, not be confused with D.L. (Pappy) Hicks, an amorphous group, located in Troup, Texas, Exhibit S, The Oklahoma Cherokee Nation, a Federal Corporation, (Not A Sovereign Nation), or any other group of our Cherokee Indian cousins. The people of the SCNT are also known as the Black Dutch, the Black Irish, the East Texas Cherokee, the Lost Cherokee, and the Tejas-Cherokee amongst other names. It is a separate, distinct, and independent "Native Sovereign Nation." This significant difference is virtue of whether or not the other tribes of our Cherokee cousins are considered "federally recognized" and administered by the Department of Interior and its sub Bureau, the Bureau of Indian Affairs which places them within the "Ward Trust" relationship of the United States government. Our other Cherokee cousins may also be considered sovereign, but in a "limited" way due to this Ward Trust relationship versus being"acknowledged" as a "domestic dependent nation."

So there for :

The SOVEREIGN CHEROKEE NATION TEJAS is acknowledged by a "rule 2" determination from the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) Exhibit 1.In a letter dated December 21, 1990 addressed to Chief Bear Who Walks Softly. Joseph E. Clarkson, Chief Registration Unit Internal Security Section Criminal Division stated in paragraph 2 of the letter: "Although the letters from Messrs Monaghans and Wood are in the form of notification under 18 U.S.C. s 951, considering the matter as a whole we will treat your letter and enclosures as a request for a "rule 2" determination (28 C.F.R. s 5.2) of the possible obligation or exemption of persons representing the Sovereign Cherokee Nation Tejas under the foreign agents registration act of 1938, as amended, 22 U.S.C. s 611, et seq." and in paragraph 3:


Holy Crap!!!!!
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:49 AM   #27
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Criminal Resource Manual 2062 Foreign Agents Registration Act Enforcement

Does this mean that the government is taking their letter as a request under this law to be a truly sovereign nation and also as a propagandist group or terrorism organization? Did I read that right???
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear View Post
Criminal Resource Manual 2062 Foreign Agents Registration Act Enforcement

Does this mean that the government is taking their letter as a request under this law to be a truly sovereign nation and also as a propagandist group or terrorism organization? Did I read that right???
Dang that is what I am reading!!
I have heard of the Texas Cherokees but the group was wiped out when Chief Bowles was killed...
They were scattered about, most migrated to Indian Territory
They are using the same claim that the Chicamunga Cherokees
use that is they were not all killed in the battle that supposedly did them in over 170 years ago and have been hiding out
This group uses a nice blend of historic facts and fantasy to fabricate a believable tale.
There is another group that are down in Mexico that claim they are the very Cherokees that Sequoyah was looking for in the 1840's when he died they are called the Mexican Cherokees
Now there is some truth to their claim Prior to Texas being a Republic there was indeed several thousand Cherokees that had moved to what is now the Dallas/Ft Worth area and settled for some 40 years but the Texans fought them and finally was successful in scattering them.
As the story goes some had intermarried with Mexicans so they migrated further south to live with their families, whether or not they retained Cherokee culture and language has never been found.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:46 AM   #29
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Josiah, thanks for the clarification.
Some eye opening stuff.

Some of it makes my head spin the wrong way.
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:21 PM   #30
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Dude, that's just nuts!! But I can see that anyone wanting to assert full soveriegnty within the states would be treated as possible terrorists... homeland security you know. Sovereignty recognition does'nt necessarily mean allied with and they dispersed as enemies right?

As for the mexican cherokees... the thing about them is that all the pictures I've seen they look like white people, not like mexican indians or even just brown skinned people. The majority of people I've heard talk about them seem to think they are full of it...but I dont' know enough about them either... I think that mexico recognizes them as cherokees though.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:17 PM   #31
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Hmm...I just went through the 61 pg powerpoint presentation, and I think a lot of it is good. I'm glad that this resolution and the task force are drawing attention to the fact that fake "tribes" receive federal and state funding. But, I disagree with the calls for removal of state recognized tribes under the Indian Arts and Craft Act and the other comments about 'state' recognized tribes, as the ppt puts it.

I know there are fake state recognized tribes. I also know there are real ones. In MA, for instance, the Mashpee Wampanoag were federally recognized this year. Before then, they were state recognized. There are other instances of this as well. Were these tribes fake before they were federally recognized? Of course not. I'm not sure why only some states are listed in the powerpoint. None of the New England states are, but they have state recognized tribes. Most of the tribes listed in NC, for instance, are currently petitioning for federal recognition, which takes years because of the backlog of petitioning tribes. Its likely that some more state recognized tribes will receive federal recognition, yet just because they are state recognized today, they automatically are fraudulent? The resolution affirms the right of the BIA to confer federal recognition- so let them do that. Don't automatically list every state recognized tribe as fake. That's the BIA's job, to review each petition and determine its merit, not the CNO/EBCI's job, to list every state recognized tribe as fake.

There are also state reservations that I know about in MA and CT that have existed since the 1600 and 1700's. These reservations sometimes pre-date the creation of the United States. The reality is that some tribes do have relationships with state governments, particularly on the East Coast. This resolution universally condemns all state recognized tribes as some kind of fraud. The situation is much more complicated than that, and doing so weakens the overall resolution's argument. I think its a good first step, but they are trying to take on two separate issues here:

1) state recognition and how its granted. Some states have commissions on Indian affairs, some state senates and house of representatives, governors office, whatever issue a proclamation or resolution. Now anyone can get a resolution. I received a resolution when I was in 7th grade and won a statewide summer reading contest! Lets just say that a resolution carries a lot less weight with it than state recognition from an actual commission.

2) fake Cherokee tribes. This really is a problem, particularly if federally recognized tribes are losing money to fake ones. I think they should stick with the second issue, because its a legit and big problem.

Last edited by eap7; 08-29-2008 at 05:25 PM..
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:59 AM   #32
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This is going to get interesting now. Hopefully, this will stop a lot of the confusion at p/w's. I mc'd a p/w in VA Beach this past April, and, there was a guy there that called by name to give me a card. He said " I am giving you this card so that y'all will know that I am a legitimate chief". When I read the card, he had cherokee spelled wrong, along with some other misspellings. However, when he found out that there were other Eastern Band Cherokees there, he quickly vanished. I wonder why?
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:53 PM   #33
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Wall of Shame = Alot of Lulz

Anyhow, where does this leave the oh so overlooked United Kituwah/Keetoowah Cherokee?

Official Site of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians - Federally Recognized

As far as I know they aren't that well liked by the CNO but, they seem very legit. Soz like, are they now considered to be wannabes?

Ugh, this is to confusing; it's only going to get worse though. As long as we continue to be Uncle Sam's retarded redskined cousin that always needs hand outs these kind of shenanigans will continue that is.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:43 PM   #34
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Wall of Shame = Alot of Lulz

Anyhow, where does this leave the oh so overlooked United Kituwah/Keetoowah Cherokee?

Official Site of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians - Federally Recognized

As far as I know they aren't that well liked by the CNO but, they seem very legit. Soz like, are they now considered to be wannabes?

Ugh, this is to confusing; it's only going to get worse though. As long as we continue to be Uncle Sam's retarded redskined cousin that always needs hand outs these kind of shenanigans will continue that is.
Actually if you look through the resolution the UKB is indeed mentioned as a Legit Cherokee Tribe and is Recongnized as such:
WHEREAS, the history of the Cherokee Nation and Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is well documented and no other tribes or bands of Cherokee Indians exist aside from those already federally recognized, which includes the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians in Oklahoma;



Its all Politics and Rhetoric which sells newspapers
As for the man in the street there is no such strive
We are Cherokee that belong to each part
ECB
CNO
UKB
Each have history with one another each are kin to each
I have kin folk that have elected to change enrollment
We come from the same Grandparents
yet I am enrolled CNO my 1st cousins have chosen to become UKB

With the Fake Cherokee tribes there is no such ties no blood relations nothing
Its as if they all of a sudden just appeared
"Poof"
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:29 PM   #35
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Josiah has alot of good points and knowledge but I think its getting a little stretched out on the true problem. We have groups that are trying to take advantage of loop holes to get something that is not suppose to be. First they take the land and force tribes to go where they want them and now there are more tribes than there was before America was colonized. But in the end everyone is after the almighty dollar. That is what this country is coming to. We should be flying a 50.00 dollar bill instead of the flag. There are ways to check blood lines like DNA so use a stringent testing procedure of some sort If they did I'm sure alot of the wannabes would disapear. And to think this government will come up with a solution is a stretch of the imagination.
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