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Old 05-26-2008, 02:46 AM   #81
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Go ahead and search for who the Occaneechi Saponi name as their main ancestors and who they say was the founders of the Texas community where they claim home.
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Old 05-26-2008, 02:51 AM   #82
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Now...the monacan tribe was originally the neighbor tribe to the Saponi....they was also pretty much allianced.

so lets see what they have for part of their history.

the Goose creek Dobbins was the quakers and these quakers had a disturbance with the Monacan indians. You can check the Monacan's website and you'll see where they talk about them and the goose creek quakers.

check this site if you want to see exactly who the Goose Creek Quakers was....the dobyns/dobbins.

Daniel Dobyns of Colonial Virginia, Chapter IX
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Old 05-26-2008, 02:52 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Go ahead and search for who the Occaneechi Saponi name as their main ancestors and who they say was the founders of the Texas community where they claim home.

First of all, no I'm not going to look 'cause I don't have time right now to do someone else's work. I was just making a point to you about it. I will read the stuff you posted at a later time, maybe tomorrow--right now I won't be able to grasp it, so it will have to waite.

And now you are talking about a Texas community.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:03 AM   #84
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http://www.myoutbox.net/wdob.htm

Descendants of the Saponi Collins which came to Sc, Ga, alabama, Tennesse, and a few other places.

Partial family tree....over 40 years of work have been put in on this family and the effort of ALOT of people.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:05 AM   #85
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Partial family tree of the Saponi austin family.

John AUSTIN/Unknown Woman of the Saponey (i) NATION
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:08 AM   #86
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www.freeafricanamericans.com/Jeffery_Johnson.htm

Partial family tree of the Texas Communities' jeffers/jeffries/jeffreys families.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:10 AM   #87
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hehehe it is alot of stuff...all that is just a small ammount of the information I have....I have like a closet full of information....


the texas community is what the community in orange/granville county nc is called. It was a small indian community...no one knows where it got it's name though.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:55 PM   #88
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I forgot about another Collins family line.

The chief of the Piscataway tribe descends from the Collins family as well.


Turkey Tayac was a Piscataway Indian leader and herbal doctor, born Philip Sheridan Proctor, in 1895 in Charles County, Maryland. Tayac was the last person to have knowledge of the Piscataway language. Two leading Algonquian linguists, Ives Goddard, Department of Anthropology, National Museum of Natural History at the Smithsonian Institution, and Julian Granberry both referred to and consulted with Turkey Tayac in their field work.


Turkey Tayac fought in World War I in France as a part of the Rainbow Division and was nearly killed by mustard gas. Later in life, Turkey Tayac reported that when Army doctors determined that he would not be able to survive his exposure to the lethal gas, he was able to heal himself with traditional Native American medicine.

Turkey Tayac could have learned traditional medicine from many of his kinspeople. The following were known to have been herbal doctors: Elizabeth Ann Wiseman-Thompson (1820's-1884), Henrietta Harley-Proctor (1851-1941), the granddaughter of Mary Henrietta Collins, and Frank James Proctor (1845-????), known locally as the "Herb Doctor."

Husband: James HARLEY
Birthdate: 1800
Birthplace: Maryland
Death date: before 1880's
Place of death: Maryland
Father: Henry Harley
Mother: Unknown

Marriage date: February 1827
Marriage place: Prince George's county, MD

Wife: Mary Henrietta Collins 2nd of 3 wives
Birthdate: circa 1800's
Birthplace: ? = Maryland
Death date: before 1845
Place of death: Unknown
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown

CHILDREN

Child No. 1: William Henry
Sex: M
Birthdate: circa 1828
Birthplace: Maryland
Death date: October 26, 1907
Place of death: Upper Marlboro, Prince Geo. Co. MD
Marriage date: December 30, 1850
Marriage place: Prince George's county, MD
Spouse's name: Julia Ann Butler

Child No. 2: Sarah Ann Sex: F Birthdate: circa 1830 Birthplace: Maryland
Death date: Place of death: Marriage date: January 15, 1949 = 2 listing
different dates Marriage place: Bryantown, Maryland Spouse's name: 1.
Josiah Proctor / 2. Washington Butler = no kids by him

Child No. 3: Mary Jane
Sex: F
Birthdate: 1832
Birthplace: Maryland
Death date: June 30, 1916
Place of death: Oxon Hill, Maryland
Marriage date: January 20, 1851
Marriage place: Prince Geo. county, MD records
Spouse's name: Sylvester Newman

Child No. 4: Elizabeth Ellen
Sex: F
Birthdate: 1835
Birthplace: Maryland
Death date: February 10, 1903
Place of death: Cedarville, Maryland
Marriage date: September 05, 1852
Marriage place: St. Peters recording - but Wash D.C. marriage
Spouse's name: Micheal "Miley" Proctor

http://www.fgs-project.com/maryland/h/harley-j1.txt


Remember in the mid 1700's...some of the Saponi joined the Cayuga in New York becoming part of the 6 nations.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:45 AM   #89
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LOL You sure are persistent!

Seems like you have documentation out the yazoo! Most of your documentation is from the 1700's to early 1800's.

So I'll tell you what...

Show us your documentation for the last 200 years. That's roughly 10 generations.

Surely, if you have doumentation that says you are Saponi Indian, you'll have it for the last 5 generations. This will show the migration of your family up until present.

I'll personally put you in contact with the Executive Director of the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs.
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


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Old 05-27-2008, 03:24 PM   #90
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http://www.myoutbox.net/wdob.htm

William Dobbins married (2nd) Eliza "Lizer" Jeffers (daughter of John Jeffers). She was born in 1822 in Georgia and died and was buried in 1907 in Marshall Co AL. William and Eliza had the following children:

70 Nancy A. Dobbins was born in 1847 in Georgia.



Thats my line

That gets you to 1847

From there it goes to the Teal family, from there it goes to where the Teal family married one of the Petty women.....from there to newman family where I'm at now
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:31 PM   #91
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There is my petty family in the 1800's paulding county ga.



There the paulding county petty family is in the early 1900's.


This family came from the Catawba's area in SC about 1790/1800. Before that they was in NC. Some people from this famile are on the 1943 roll of the federally recognized Catawba tribe.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:41 PM   #92
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and yes my petty line is part of Richard petty's line lol (the petty line is not saponi..but it does show constant native american marriages)..and the catawba/Saponi still staying together.











Last edited by ECSN; 05-27-2008 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:50 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
http://www.myoutbox.net/wdob.htm

William Dobbins married (2nd) Eliza "Lizer" Jeffers (daughter of John Jeffers). She was born in 1822 in Georgia and died and was buried in 1907 in Marshall Co AL. William and Eliza had the following children:

70 Nancy A. Dobbins was born in 1847 in Georgia.



Thats my line

That gets you to 1847

From there it goes to the Teal family, from there it goes to where the Teal family married one of the Petty women.....from there to newman family where I'm at now

Okay, wait a minute here. Now you posted your family chart above--again I haven't looked at it yet--I will be looking over this stuff later today. However based on what you just said above--did you start with a name back in the 1700's and then follow that line through the families to get to you? That would be taking it backwards in a genealogy sense and could miss alot of other info by doing such. To verifiy you--you start with yourself--first and foremost and then work your way backwards to that person. But what was asked of you above was if you have to documents from you all the way back to the ones you are listing here in the 1700's and early 1800's and I think that you were made a very good offer, not many get that chance. I don't know about anyone else--but the pictures, although nice to look at--really don't mean a thing to me. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating what I'm seeing here.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:51 PM   #94
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And if you want to see further proof that this family was staying together.

Richard petty pictured above.
his GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDfather was
Thomas Petty, b. ... , d. Orange Co., N. C., 20 Aug. 1769
m.

So there is the Orange county yet again...and at the same time.


http://www.wargs.com/other/petty.html

there is his family tree.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:00 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Okay, wait a minute here. Now you posted your family chart above--again I haven't looked at it yet--I will be looking over this stuff later today. However based on what you just said above--did you start with a name back in the 1700's and then follow that line through the families to get to you? That would be taking it backwards in a genealogy sense and could miss alot of other info by doing such. To verifiy you--you start with yourself--first and foremost and then work your way backwards to that person. But what was asked of you above was if you have to documents from you all the way back to the ones you are listing here in the 1700's and early 1800's and I think that you were made a very good offer, not many get that chance. I don't know about anyone else--but the pictures, although nice to look at--really don't mean a thing to me. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating what I'm seeing here.

No we started with ourselfs...and the Saponi stuff is where it lead us.....there is about 200 of us which are all working together. we each started with our selfs....we was all lead to the Collins in Granville Nc in the 1700's.

however...the last recorded mention of the Saponi in America was 1761 graville nc...that is the last Saponi document.....that is why people was saying we was extinct.

I posted all the old stuff first so people would understand who the "REAL" saponi was.......they can use that information and ask people who "claim" to be saponi just to see if the people who "claim" saponi even know what documents state about the Sapnoi lol
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:20 PM   #96
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I'm working on th ebest way I can add the family documents that trace from current time to the 1700's....alot of documents...alot more than what I've already posted. But for the time being I'll post the Saponi timeline from the 1600's to the last 1700's.

1671:
Tutelo found living near Salem, Virginia
September 5th 1671
''The three gentlemen bore a commission from Major-general Wood "for the finding out tile ebbing and flowing of the Waters on the other side of the Mountains in order to the discovery of the South Sea."
They struck off due west along a trail that was evidently already familiar, and having five horses made rapid progress. On the fourth day 'they reached the Sapony villages, one of which Lederer had visited the year before. They were "very joyfully and kindly received with firing of guns and plenty of provisions." **They picked up a Sapony guide to show them to the Totero village by "a nearer way than usual," and were about to leave when overtaken by a reinforcement of seven Appomattox Indians sent them by Wood. They sent back Mr. Thomas Wood's worn out horse by a **Portuguese servant of General Wood's whom they had found in the village**, and pushed on to the Hanahaskie "town," some twenty-five miles west by north, on an island in the Staunton River. Here Mr. Thomas Wood was left, dangerously ill.''
The Expedition of Batts and Fallam:
A Journey from Virginia to beyond the Appalachian Mountains, September, 1671.
From Annals of Southwest Virginia, 1769-1800.


After 1671:
Sometime after 1671 the Tutelo and Saponi was driven south by the Norhern Iroqious to Join the Occaneechi in Clarksville, Each tribe settled on a different neighboring island on the Dan and Staunton rivers. They then leave the islands and enter North Carolina until 1710.

1677:
Treaty of 1677 signed.
Queen Pomunckey and her son, Captain John West
The King of the Nottowayes
King Peracuta of the Appomattux
The Queen of Wayonaoake
The King of the Nanzem'd
King Pattanochus of the Nansatiocoes, Nanzemunds, and the Portabacchoes
King Shurenough of the Manakins
King Mastegonoe of the Sappones
Chief Tachapoake of the Sappones
Chief Vnuntsquero of the Maherians
Chief Horehonnah of the Maherians
(Mastegonoe, young King of the Sappones)

(Tachapoake, Chiefe man of the Sappones)





1701:
John Lawson finds Sapona indians along the banks of the Yadkin river (at that time was named Sapona river).
Also in 1701 NC Davidson County. Trading Fort established on Sapona River (now called Ydkin River) at the Indian town of Sapona Town.

1709:
In 1709 North Carolina courts the Saponi Chief complained in Court to the Judge that the Nottoway and Tuskarora had killed two Saponi, the Nottoway replied that the Saponi had killed 3 of theirs and wounded 2 more before their return attack. The Saponi proposed the indian custom which stated that if one tribe murdered another tribe's person then that tribe must pay them. The Nottoway appeared upon this if the Saponi would also pay for the 3 they had killed as well. This made the Judge mad and said this was not the white man's way to put aprice upon human life and if they bargain among themselves then he would have nothing to say on the matter. That Saponi then stated that it was not them which killed the 3 Nottoway, stating it was the Tutelo. The Nottoway stated the Tutelo and Saponi was one, the Nottoway further stated that some time ago the Nottoway paid these Saponi a ammount of Wampum (a shell used in jewlery and adoption ceremonies) to help kill off all the Tutelo. The Nottoway said instead these Saponi took the Wampum then told the Tutelo of the plan. This is probally why the three Nottoway was killed. The Nottoway then proposed that they would allow the Saponi to keep the Wampum and also pay for the 2 dead if they would honor their original deal and join the Nottoway in killing off all the Tutelo. The Saponi chief stated he would consider this new offer, the tribes returned home. The judge over this matter wrote to the Virginia government stateing that if the Tuskarora was offered up to be murdered by the Saponi then English lives would for certain be taken.


1710:
Governor spotswood encourages the Saponi and Tutelo to return to virginia from North Carolina

Febuary 27th 1713 Treaty made with Saponi
These traders not only went into the Carolinas, but also were apparently active in the local Indian trade. The native people in southside Virginia at this time were the Saponi, the Ocaneeche, the Eno, and the Tutelo, part of the eastern Siouan speaking tribes. The Treaty of Fort Christianna on 27 February 1713 led to an era of settlement where these Indians lived at Fort Christianna, including a 36 square mile area set aside for them, located in what is now Brunswick County (4). Richard Smith helped to build Christianna.

1715:
Major Joshua Wynne, youngest son of Colonel Robert Wynne, born 1659-1662 in Charles City Co., Virginia. Joshua lived in Prince George County, Virginia. On 29 March 1715 Major Joshua Wynne was shot and killed by Saponey Indians because one of Joshua's servants had killed one of the Indian's "great" men.
Upon trial of the Indian, they pleaded that the Wynne's were the aggressors and that they never rest without revenge. The Indians said that they and the Wynne's were then equal, each having lost a great man. To avoid more bloodshed the Indian was pardoned. Joshua was an Indian interpreter and was said to be a fearless adventurer. He was a Justice in Charles City County, Virginia as well as Sheriff of Prince George County, Virginia. Joshua was born in Charles City, Virginia in 1660. He was married to Mary Jones, daughter of Captain Peter Jones and wife Margaret (Wood) Jones, daughter of the eminent Major General Abraham Wood, head of Virginia's fur trade under Royal Governor Sir William Berkley. Joshua was overseer of the Berkley plantation during Bacon's Rebellion, was a member of the Governor's Council, and a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses. After building Fort Henry in 1646, he and three other Virginians, two servants and a guide explored what someday would become Tennessee and Kentucky, and being the first Englishmen to set foot there.

April 15 1716:
Spotwood visits the Saponi indians at Fort Christiana which he is met by . The Saponey are dresed for war and perform a war dance and practice shooting arrows, They numbered 200 men and had recently been Governed by a Queen, she had either died or was dying so are now governed by 12 men, these 12 men meet Spotswood as he arrives and lay several animal skins at his feet and bow to him at the same time. They inform Spotswood thru a interpretor that the Genitoes had surprised 15 of them and had killed these 15 men. They asked for Spotswood's assitance in killing 15 of them (which is the code of the Saponi that if any of your men was killed then you could kill that same number but no more). He agreed that they may take revenge and that he would supply ammunition. They also complained of being cheated by the English which Spotswood furnished resitution. 60 young men then show up with feathers in their hair and thru their Ear like a Earring. Face painted blue and Red (the Saponi war colors). Their hair was cut in fantastic ways with some appearing like a Rooster's comb. They had Blue and Red blankets wraped around them (their war dress), this made them appear like Furies, these men (the soliders) made no speach. Then the women enter, long straight hair to the waist, blanket tied around them and hanging like a petticoat, most of the women was naked from the waist up, the ones not naked from the waist up wore a Mantle over one shoulder made of two deer skins sewed together. These women was greased with bear oil on their head and body which gave a disagreeable smell due to the bear oil mixed with the smoke of their cabins (Cabins was the Saponi current homes). These women was modest and very faithful to their Husbands, straight and well limbed, good shape and extraordinary good features, they look wild and shy of Englishmen with which they will not allow to touch them. The Saponi village was a musket shot from Fort Christiana (which taught 77 children), the village cabins were all joined making a circle with 3 passages 6 feet wide each, the doors all faced inside the circle while the center of the cirlce was a tree stump which the 12 head men spoke on, the infants was hung from trees out of harms way by them being bound to boards in the shape of the child with the top being round in shape, a string went thru a hole on the top of the board making a hoop to place upon tree branches or pin of a post. The boys praticed bow and arrow shooting by shoot at the eye of a axe 20 yards away, spotswood gave the boys knifes and hourglasses. After their village war dance Spotswood treated them to food which they ate wildly.
History of the Colony and Ancient Dominion of Virginia By Charles Campbell. Pg.385 (the book lists references).
John Fontaine was the author of above.

Febuary 20th 1719
George II. To all know ye that for diverss good causes & considerations but more specialty for and in consideration of diverss services performed toward making the new settlement for the Saponi Indians at Christ Anna persuant to a treaty with that Nation We have given granted and confirmed and by these presents for us our heirs and successors do give grant and confirm unto Richard Smith of Isle of Wight County one certain tract or parcel of land containing three hundred and ninety acres lying and being on the south side of the Meherrin River in the county aforesaid (and being part of that tract of land whereon the said Indians lately dwelt and which they have surrendered to us in exchange for a like quantity of land which we have assigned them at the aforesaid place of Christ Anna) and bounded followeth, to wit,

Beginning at a pine in the Sapone old field a corner of Edward Brantley...In witness & witness our trusty and beloved Alexander Spotswood out Lt. Governor at Williamsburgh under the seal of our said Colony the twentieth day of February one thousand seven hundred and nineteen in the sixth year of our Reign.

A. Spotswood

1719
Iroquois raiders in 1719 ravaged the cornfields of the Christanna Indians and lay in ambush before the gate of the fort.

1722:
Peace treaty made between Siouan and iroqious nations.

27 Sept 1728
"Sir:
The 27th of September John Carter brought Negro Cofey to my house, as he says, by your orders, for me to examine concerning what the Saponys have told him about the white people, which I have done, and he tells me: that Great George told him that John Sauano and a fellow called Ben Harrison was gone to the Cotobers to fetch one hundred of them to come and see why their Indians was put in prison, and if Capt. Tom was hanged they would carry their wives and children over the Roanoke River and then they would drive the white people and negros as far as James River, and he says that Tony Mack told him that if Pyah was hanged he and the Cotobers would come and take revenge of the English, and he says that Sapony Tom told him if his son Harry Erwin was hanged they would kill you and three or four more Gentlemen and then go off," The original document is held by the Virginia Historical Society, Richmond, VA and will give you a copy of the original.
Letter from Thomas Avent

In 1730, "William Bohannon came into court and made oath that about twenty-six of the Sapony Indians that inhabit Colonel Spotswood's land in Fox's neck go about and do a great deal of mischief by firing the woods; more especially on the 17th day of April last whereby several farrows of pigs were burnt in their beds, and that he verily believes that one of the Indians shot at him the same day, the bullet entering a tree within four feet of him; that he saw the Indian about one hundred yards from him, and no game of any sort between them; that the Indian after firing his gun stood in a stooping manner very studdy [steady] so that he could hardly discern him from a stump, that he has lost more of his pigs than usual since the coming of the said Indians; which is ordered to be certified to the General Assembly. " Orange county VA

1740:
About this time a number of Saponi and the Majority if not all the Tutelo move to shamokin, Pennsylvania under Iroqious protestion.

1742 ""Alexander Machartoon, John Bowling, Manicassa, Capt. Tom, Isaac, Harry,
Blind Tom, Foolish Jack, Charles Griffin, John Collins, Little Jack. Indians
being brought before the court by precept under the hands and seals of Wm
Russell & Edward Spencer, Gent. for terrifying one Lawrence Strother and on
suspicion of stealing hoggs........"

" The above put up security individually. It was ordered that their guns be
taken from them till they are ready to depart out of this county, "they
having declared their intentions to the Court to depart this colony within a
week" (Orange Co..VA Order Book 3 1741-1743. 309) Orange Co Va Microfilm Reel
31, Va
Old Thomas Collins of Flatt Rive
Orange County [Virginia] Register of Deeds
1741-1743 Order Book 3:308-309. Orange, Virginia.

1742. Sundry Indians, among them Manincassa, Captain Tom, Blind Tom, Foolish Zack, and Little Zack, were before Court for "terrifying" one Lawrence Strother, who testified that one of them shot at him, that they tried to surround him, that he turned his horse and rid off, but they gained on him till he crossed the run. Ordered, that the Indians be taken into custody by the sheriff until they give peace bonds with security, and that their guns be taken from them until they are ready to depart out of this Colony, they having declared their intention to depart within a week. They gave bond.
VMHB III:190
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:20 PM   #97
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"25 Jan 1745 Louisa County, Virginia Court: William Hall, Samuel Collins, William Collins, Samuel Bunch, George Gibson, Benjamin Brannum, Thomas Gibson, & William Donothan appear to answer an indictment for concealing tithables. Plead not guilty, Case continued."

1749:
3598 pg 384 WILLIAM MACKINTOSH 13 October 1749 200 acres in Johnston County on the S. side of the Neuse River on a place called Powells run near Sapony Camps, joining near the sd. run.

1750 The Saponia Indian reservation established near Hillsboro, North Carolina (I think this fits to the last paragraph on this post).

1751 near Orange county Va:
A party of indians visit a Indian burial mound, Thomas Jefferson observed this in which he later dug into.
"A party of Indians passing about 1751 where this barrow is, near Charlottesville, went through the woods directly to it, without any instructions or inquiry, and having staid about it some time, with expressions construed to be those of sorrow, returned to the high road, which they had left about six miles to pay this visit, and pursued their journey.""

1753:
The Tutelo and some Saponi are adopted into the League of Iroqious.

1754:
Granville—Willm Eaton Esqr Coll: of Granville county His Regimt consists of 8 companys 734 besides officers 2 Captns Simms & Jones are moved away the others Resigned He thinks the fines on delinquents should be fixed by a Court Martial.
No arms or ammunition in the Stores There are about 12 or 14 Sapona men and as many women & children in the county Major Payne by Col: Eaton for Granville county recommends John Martin to be Captn over part of Sugar Jones Company & Willm Hawkins Captn over the other part above Shaws Road and John Hawkins Captn over part of Richd Coleman's Company & Willm Johnston over part of Willm Harris Company & Willm Paton Captn instead of Benjamin Sims moved away Capt Hursts Troop with officers 32. Report concerning the militia in each county of North Carolina
Creator: No Author 1754 Volume 5, Pages 161 - 163. Found on Page 162.

April 19 1755:
Abstracts of the Minutes of the
Court of Pleas and Quarter
Sessions Rowan County,
North Carolina 1753-1762
II:72 19 April 1755
Esquires present: Jas Carter, Jno Handby, Alexr Osburn & Thos Potts. … Whereas John Auston a Saponia Indian and Mary a Susquhanah Indian and Thos a Cattaaba applied for a pass to the Cataba Nation being now on their Journey to conclude a Genl Peace with ye Catabas in behalf of the Sd Nation and also presented 3 Belts of Wampum to Sd Court by which the sd Treaty is to be concluded.
Copyright Jo White Linn 1977
Mrs. Stahle Linn, Jr.
Box 1948
Salisbury, N.C. 28144
Stamped (Carnegie Public Library, Washington C. H., Ohio 43160)"


1761:
A 1761 report counted 20 Saponi warriors in the area of Granville County, NC
Quere 13 What is the number of the Indians inhabiting those parts of America lyeing within or bounding upon your Province? What Contracts or Treaties of Peace have been made with them and are now in force? What Trade is carried on with them and under what Regulations and how have these Regulations been established?
Answer The only Tribes or remains of Tribes of Indians residing in this Province are the Tuskerora Sapona Meherin and Maramuskito Indians. The Tuskerora have about 100 fighting men the Saponas and Meherrin Indians about 20 each and the Maramuskitos about 7 or 8. the first 3 are situated in the Middle of the Colony upon and near Roanoak and have by Law 10,000 acres of Land allotted to them in Lord Granvilles District they live chiefly by hunting and are in perfect friendship with the Inhabitants

The Catauba Indians who are also in close friendship with the Inhabitants resided upon the Cataubas river near our Western Frontier near the Boundary Line in 35° No Latitude proposed to be laid out betwixt this and the South Province they consisted within these few years of about 300 fighting men but last year the small pox ravaged in their Towns which made them desert them and leave their sick behind them to perish; by an account from their King Haglar to me they are reduced to 60 fighting and about as many old men and boys and a suitable number of Women, upon which and the Cherokee war they removed farther West upon or near the Boundary Line where they have had a Town laid out for them in South Carolina but allege that they are still within this Government Mr. Glenn wantonly promised them a District of 30 Miles radius round their Towns, which wod have contained about 1,800,000 acres, but now as they are reduced I suppose less than 10,000 acres will content them.
page 616
Report by Arthur Dobbs concerning general conditions in North Carolina
Creator: Arthur Dobbs (1689-1765)
1761
Volume 6
[B. P. R. O. North Carolina B. T. Vol. 14. E. 53.]
THE COLONY, ITS CLIMATE, SOIL, POPULATION, GOVERNMENT,
RESOURCES, &c.
An Answer to the several Queries sent by the Lords Commissioners for Trade and Plantations.


1765:
In 1765,
when they were living on the upper Susquehanna, the Saponi are
said to have had 30 warriors.

1771:
The Tutelo and some Saponi are with the Cayunga tribe at the Cayunga lake in New York State. After the American revolution they travel with the Cayunga into Canada at which point the Tutelo and Saponi depart ways.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:13 PM   #98
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There is my petty family in the 1800's paulding county ga.



There the paulding county petty family is in the early 1900's.


This family came from the Catawba's area in SC about 1790/1800. Before that they was in NC. Some people from this famile are on the 1943 roll of the federally recognized Catawba tribe.
the photo listed as from the early 1900s cant be from the early 1900s...the guy holding the baby has too modern glasses and hair style...looks more like 1970's
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:20 PM   #99
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Hyde County, NC - Collins Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Cate Collings was called an "Indian Woman" servant of William Gibbs

when she was summoned by the March 1765 Hyde County Court [Minutes

II:113].


Hyde Co., North Carolina - 1820 Census
only two households with the collins/collens/collings
one of them is susanna collens as head of household over 45 years old with no kids...she is not there in 1830.

Hyde County 1820 Census (introduction)

Rutherford nc 1810 census
you find the spellings colling/collens/collins
(susanna collins is living with william dobbins...william dies in 1812 making her a widow)

http://files.usgwarchives.org/nc/rut...s/ruth1830.txt

1830 rutherford census Susanna Collins is living with drury dobbins.

Drury dobbins family bible which is on public display states susanna came from granville nc. It also states him and his siblings was taught at a "old fields" school".

I'm hoping someone has more information regarding Susanna Collins in Hyde County. I believe that Susanna was the daughter of the above mentioned Cati Collins. I am a direct descendent of the Collins line of Hyde County, NC. I have been researching for more than 10 years and always felt that the Collins line of Hyde came from somewhere else. Their name is not among the Native Americans who made peace after the Tuscurora War ended in 1715. The Colonial Council deeded the surviving coastal tribes a reservation at Lake Mattamuskeet. It was established in 1724 giving them 10,240 acres. The Hyde County Court minutes of 1765 contains the above mentioned reference to Cati Collins. This document is particularly significant since the Collins family's later history closely paralleled that of the individuals with Mattamuskeet surnames. It is believed she may have been a member of one of the groups that moved to the area from Roanoke and Hatteras Islands. It has been suggested that Cati is the mother of Susanna Collins of Rutherford, NC. It has also been said that the family came from Craven County, NC. The only other Collins names appearing on the 1820 Hyde County, NC census are Charity b. 1792 and Abijah b. 1790 (female) both heads of their own households. Missing from the census if my ggg-grandmother Milly Collins b. 1788. She shows up as head of her household on the 1830 and an additional family is headed by a male Elson Collins. Unfortunately, the census taker did not think it necessary to show a breakdown of ages for the families known as free people of color. However, all three women are about 2 years apart in age. This along with other research has brought me to the conclusion that they were sisters.
If anyone has done research on the Collins lines from these different areas, I would appreciate any information you could provide.

Thanks,
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:44 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
No we started with ourselfs...and the Saponi stuff is where it lead us.....there is about 200 of us which are all working together. we each started with our selfs....we was all lead to the Collins in Granville Nc in the 1700's.

however...the last recorded mention of the Saponi in America was 1761 graville nc...that is the last Saponi document.....that is why people was saying we was extinct.

I posted all the old stuff first so people would understand who the "REAL" saponi was.......they can use that information and ask people who "claim" to be saponi just to see if the people who "claim" saponi even know what documents state about the Sapnoi lol
Again I don't know much about the Person County Folks or the Ocannechi, but it is important for you to understand that in regards to the Haliwa they are seeking their federal recognition through the BAR process with the department of Interior.......and that process is no joke!

So trust me here, they have to provide documentation for all claims that they are making........so you won't have to worry about them getting federal status as Saponi if (not saying that they aren't) that's not what they are! I also know that they are aware of a lot of information you provided because the person who told me that the Collins were a Saponi family was a Haliwa (an influental one at that).

In regards to there being 200 of you guys.......are you all closely related and living relatively close (same county or two) to each other? If so.....it appears that it might be worthwhile for you folks to persue your own independant recognition. Be it Georgia or NC (wherever it is that you are now.....you don't have to be originally from a state to get recognized there.....so long as there is a whole community of you guys who moved there).
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