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Old 09-12-2010, 02:26 AM   #1
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Saponi Indian

Hello everyone....My name is Penny and according to ancestry.com my gggggrand mother was a Saponi indian named Hannah Love born in 1692 At the Saponia plantation in Bertie, NC. Any information about her, the plantation or anything else would be much appreciated!
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:37 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by PennyG View Post
Hello everyone....My name is Penny and according to ancestry.com my gggggrand mother was a Saponi indian named Hannah Love born in 1692 At the Saponia plantation in Bertie, NC. Any information about her, the plantation or anything else would be much appreciated!
You can contact this office: http://www.haliwa-saponi.com/

So how about the 4 generations between you and her? What are your parents saying about their parents? If you have information about a relative 4 generations away, surely you have information of those in between.

timmy tiger is off powwowing this weekend. When she gets back, she'll write something in here.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
You can contact this office: http://www.haliwa-saponi.com/

So how about the 4 generations between you and her? What are your parents saying about their parents? If you have information about a relative 4 generations away, surely you have information of those in between.

timmy tiger is off powwowing this weekend. When she gets back, she'll write something in here.
I know who they were and were the came from and in most cases, where they died. But theres noone alive between here and there to ask. I knew I had "an indian" in my background, that was the extent of that, i knew I had a grandfather who faught in the civil war for the south and one for the north...no details, just facts until I started running my family tree and finding things out on my own. I googles Saponia Plantation and got a link to this site.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:55 PM   #4
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Hey Penny,

Have you been to the SaponiTown forum?
Have seen at least one other person there researching Hannah Love.
You might at least find some cousins over there.

www.saponitown.com
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyG View Post
Hello everyone....My name is Penny and according to ancestry.com my gggggrand mother was a Saponi indian named Hannah Love born in 1692 At the Saponia plantation in Bertie, NC. Any information about her, the plantation or anything else would be much appreciated!
Well, JD's right and here I am.LOL

Okay, again he's right in what about the other 4 generations between you and this Hannah Love. You said that they are all gone, but if you found Hannah, did you find them the same way?

Also, when you say you found them on Ancestry, what does that mean? I like Ancestry for the purposes of documentation and county records and things like that. But for the purposes of family trees. Well, I've found mistakes in them. If you are going by someone else's work you might also be going by someone else's mistakes and you might not even know it.

You are talking about 1692 and then jump to the Civil war which was 1860's--almost a whole two hundered years later. What's in between there? And then from the 1860's to now, another 150 years later.

And if you found her in 1692 listed as NDN well where were her children when they were born and what were they listed as?

Ancestry is not errorproof and they do not have people who go around and check every family tree that's entered there. So you might want to double check the work yourself, using documentation, if someone found it and it's accurate, they you should be able to find it too. I only use things like the family trees as a guide, never as fact until proven with actual documentation.

Give you a good idea. I found a family tree that listed a man as being born in 1774 and he was listed as a Rev War hero. What did he do? Fling his diaper at the enemy? Well, maybe then that's why the colonists won.

Just an example of one, and I found quit a few other things like that as well. So they are not totally accurate. Be very careful. ANd make sure you make the connection from you back to that person, don't jump generations at all. It's okay to jump around documentation, but not generations.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:02 AM   #6
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Go to Saponi Town Forum. I have and found many Cuzns I didn't even know I had. Some are even quite close generations wise. These people are very nice and extremely helpful.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:20 PM   #7
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This is kinda old thread...but these answers may be useful.


Hannah Love was Saponi John Austin's mother.

If you descend from that family then your part of the family that has the most saponi documentation out of any Saponi.

Not sure exactly your line to the austins but here is a partial of the proven family tree.

John and "Saponi's" son-
2.) John Austin jr. B 14 Sep 1726, Va., D. 1815, Sumner Co., Tennessee, and Mary Maybee b8 Jan 1726/1727,d in Va.
Their son-
3.) Stephen Austin, B 4 Nov 1755, Halifax Co., VA, D. 1850, Savannah, Hardin Co., TN and Dorcas Pinson, B Abt 1757,Laurens Co., Tennessee Or Pittsylvania County Virginia. D., 13 Apr 1836, Savannah, Hardin Co., TN.
Their son-
4.) Saunders Austin, B 1782, Grayson Co., VA. D. aft 1856, Hardin Co., TN. and Nancy Qualls, B 3 Mar 1790,Va. D Aft 1860, Hardin County Tennessee.
Their son-
5.) John "Bally or Bauldy" Austin, B 8 Jun 1816, Smith Co., Tennessee. D. 2 Nov 1896, Hardin County, Tennessee. and Jane Lamb, B 1819, Tennessee. D 1880, Hardin County, Tennessee.


Mary was indian also but not Saponi...John jr was a Saponi though.

April 19 1755:
Abstracts of the Minutes of the
Court of Pleas and Quarter
Sessions Rowan County,
North Carolina 1753-1762
II:72 19 April 1755
Esquires present: Jas Carter, Jno Handby, Alexr Osburn & Thos Potts. Whereas John Auston a Saponia Indian and Mary a Susquhanah Indian and Thos a Cattaaba applied for a pass to the Cataba Nation being now on their Journey to conclude a Genl Peace with ye Catabas in behalf of the Sd Nation and also presented 3 Belts of Wampum to Sd Court by which the sd Treaty is to be concluded.
Copyright Jo White Linn 1977
Mrs. Stahle Linn, Jr.
Box 1948
Salisbury, N.C. 28144
Stamped (Carnegie Public Library, Washington C. H., Ohio 43160)"


Not sure the date on this one:
John Johnson (Johnston) settled in Bertie and established a large
plantation called "Saponia" which was adjacent to the Indian Reservation. He was the brother of Samuel Johnston, Governor of the
colony of Carolina, and Brother to Hannah Johnston - who married James
Iredel who became the first chief Justice of the NC Supreme Court during
the Revolutionary War. John became a noted Bertie County Clerk of
Court.


For that time frame of John's parents we have a few things to look at.

1682:
Maryland made peace with the Iroquois League; Iroquois conducted raids against the Saponi and Tutelo in Virginia.

1699:
The Monacans had fairly well disappeared from the area around the upper James River. At one point the tribe had been reduced to thirty bowmen with a population of fewer than 120 people.

Febuary 1701:
John Lawson stopped at a Waxhaw indian villiage that was just on the NC/SC border along the Catawba river. A Saponi messanger arrives in the villiage to discuss business between the two tribes. This messanger had his entire face painted with Vermillion and carried a Cutlas in his belt and Gun in his hand. The Waxhaw celebrated that night with a Masqurade which John Lawson and Lawson's party attended. This Saponi Messanger apperantly came from the Saponi village on the Yadkin river near present day Salisbury NC. Lawson visted this Village after leaving the Waxhaw, This village was called Sapona, the Village is a few miles NE of the Salisbury NC in Davidson county.


Page 39 of The Siouan Tribes of the East By James Mooney


1701:
John Lawson finds Sapona indians along the banks of the Yadkin river (at that time was named Sapona river).
Also in 1701 NC Davidson County. Trading Fort established on Sapona River (now called Ydkin River) at the Indian town of Sapona Town.

1701-1709:
After John Lawson's visit to Sapona Village around Febuary 1701, the Saponi and Tutelo left their villages behind.
The Siouan tribes had been getting attacked from the North and South Iroqious tribes.

These 2 tribes moved Eastward and the Saponi creek near Nashville NC probally shows the path they took. Occaneechi and the other allied tribes followed. They was al moving toward the settler's settlements so Saponi village was no longer safe.

They crossed the Roanoak river before the Tuskarora war of 1711.

Their new Village was called Sapona townn. The Location was slightly East of roanoak river and about 15 miles westward from Windsor in Bertie county NC.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:04 PM   #8
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Two women from this austin family did DNA tests which resulted in European, Asian, Sub-Saharan African and Native American results.

We don't really know Hannah Love's real last name...but we do know she was Saponi. Also there is no solid proof where John Austin was born...Some suggest England.. some suggest Virginia.

The AFAOA (Austin family association of America) is the primary researchers of the Austin family and they have tons of records.

Here is some research of that association. Things to note is Brunswick was where the saponi reservations was. The tuscarora reservation where the Saponi went after Brunswick. and the Martin/Bertie county border was around the location of the Saponi town before the brinswick reservation. The Saponi traveled non stop...just about every year they was in a new location.

Elizabeth austin is mentioned in her father Richard's will. Richard was one of the executors of his mother's estate when she died. Her name was Hannah. John Sr. mentions his sons including Richard in his will.
The will of John Sr. and Richard are both listed in the "Early Wills 1746-1765 Lunenburg Co., Virginia "compiled by Katherine B. Elliott South Hill, VA, page 74-75. Austin, John will book 1 page 308.
Will of Richard Austin from same source pp. 69-70.

Biography - John Austin Sr. Quoted from "Southside Virginia Austins" by Janet Austin Curtis. "The Virginia Genealogist" October-December 1961, 147-54. John Sr. made his will in 1758........named his wife Hannah and sons John, Valentine, Stephen, Richardson, also called Richard, and Joseph, mentioning that the first 2 were married. In the biography, John W. Scott has Richard listed as the son of a Saponie Indian.

Marriage: "Abstract of minutes of court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions, Rowan Co., NC 1753-1762" By Jo White Linn, pp 38. This source apparently states that John Austin Jr.'s mother was an Indian.

Marriage: A recording in the Rowan Co., NC book pp 72 and dated April 19, 1755 a difficult text to read...best effort..."Whereas John Austin Jr. and a Saponia Indian and Marry or Mary, a Susquohanah Indian and Thomas Cattaba applied for a pass to the Catabe Nation being now on their journey to conclude a general peace with the Cattabas in behalf of the said Nations and also presented three belts of Wampum to said court by which the treaty is to be concluded."

John Austin Jr. identified himself as a Saponi at a court hearing in Surry Co. Valentine was also identified as an Indian at a court hearing in Surry Co. Later, it was discovered that Richardson/Richard and Joseph were identified by the State of Virginia as Melungeons. Since 4 of the 5 children have been identified as "mixed blood" it is felt that there was only one mother for all the known children. (Statement made by Charles Edwin Austin).



John Austin
b. 27 Mar 1701 Kent, Eng.
d. 5 Feb 1760 Halifax Co., Va

who m'd 1st abt. 1720 Cornwall, Va:
Saponey Indian
b. abt. 1684 Saponia Plantation, Bertie Co., NC
d. abt. 1722 Va

m'd 2nd abt. 1725 Brunswick Co., Va
Hannah Love
b. 1702 Pittsylvania Co., Va
d. 20 April 1778 Pitts., Co., Va
dau of Alexander Love, b. 1690 Northumberland Co., Va, and
Elishe _?_ , d. 1729 Va.

Children:
John, b.abt. 1729 Brunswick Co., Va
Valentine, b. abt. 1730 Pitts. Co., Va
Hannah, b. abt. 1734
Stephen, b. abt. 1740
Richard/Richardson, b. abt. 1742 Brunswick Co., Va
(whose dau Elizabeth is b. abt. 1725)
Joseph, b. abt. 1746

There are Land Entry Records for the area of Brunswick and Pittsylvania counties, Va., matching most of the listed children's names, begining in 1751, and I suspect some moved to Surry and Rockingham Co's NC.

..........................
Another line of information has John Austin Sr b.abt. 1687 Surry Co., Va, d. abt. 1760 Lunenburg Co., Va, and m'd Hannah Love about 1725, and their eldest John Austin Jr b. 14 Sep 1726.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:53 AM   #9
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Angry Saponi Indian

timmy tiger,
my name is Shirley I am also a descendant of John Austin sr and his saponi wife, I am still banging my head against a brick wall that so far has not even budged, I have been trying to find the indian and christian name of Hannah, and also who were her Saponi parents.
I descend from them through thier son John Austin jr and his Sasqueannah indian wife Mary Maybee.
I descend from them to thier son Stephen "Baldy" Austin and his wife Dorcas Pinson.
I descend from them through thier son Sanders Austin and his wife Nancy Qualls.(Nancy Qualls descends from Patawomeck and Powhatan ancestors)
I than descend through thier son John Austin and his 1st wife Jane Lamb.
I than descend through thier daughter Judy/Juda Austin and her husband (and cousin)Thomas Jefferson Qualls.
I than descend through thier son Felix Young Qualls and his wife Emaline Wilson.
I than descend from thier daughter Gertie Lou Qualls and her 1st husband Exie C. Chapman.
I than descend from thier daughter (and only child) Bertha Aline Chapman and her husband George Wesley Gollihar.
than from them is me Shirley Ann Gollihar and her husband Guy Wolf Raymond.
and we have 1 son and 1 daughter.

now I have to back up to Nancy Qualls and her husband Sanders Austin.
I descend through Nancy's line also and it goes as followed.
I descend through William Qualls/Quarles and his wife Polly Lamb.
through them I not only descend through thier daughter Nancy, but also through thier son John Qualls and his wife Mary Lamb,
I descend than through thier son Thomas Jefferson Qualls and his wife Judy/Juda Austin
from here my line is the same as it shows above from Judy/Juda Austin and Thomas Jefferson Qualls in my Austin line down to me,

the 3 families Austin-Qualls-Lamb intermarried so many times, pretty much all lines you will find these 3 lines.
can anyone possibly help crack my wall just maybe enough I can maybee get my toe through it.

Thanks in advance for anyones help
my e-mail is....shirley778446@yahoo.com
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