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Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues School shooting at Red Lake Mn - anyone know anything? School shooting at Red Lake Mn - anyone know anything?

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Old 03-23-2005, 12:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing Eagle
Right on Jibbs!

Our Premier (of Manitoba) has offered aid to Red Lake - our National Chiefs have expressed their sorrow - where's the president?

Wow, that's a really good point. Now that I think about it, I remember the way the pres and other biggies from DC spoke out about Colombine, but I haven't seen anything yet about Red Lake. The government's two-faced behavior isn't surprising, but geez, at least make the gesture for those in mourning!!

It's like somehow all the stuff about that lady in Florida is more deserving of Bush's attention! It's just so obvious that ndn and other people of color do not get the respect they deserve. How can the lives of troubled youth of all the colors get better in these conditions?

My prayers go out to them.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:08 PM   #42
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shootings

I wanted to get more information on the shootings and it seem like I couldn't get more.... I remembered from the previous shootings at Columbine and the whole news were broadcasting every minute of it.. and Jibbs made a good point about GW..

My heart goes out to the community up North...
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibby™
Good questions SE!

I think I sense yet another intense deliberation between, you me and Gotchie haha!

Well good old G Dubbz had to be called away from vacation to to attend to the matter of the woman in Florida who's feeding tube was removed because she has been in a severe vegetative state for the last decade or so and her husband insists that she would not want to exist this way.

Funny that he comes to the rescue of someone who essentially wants to die - yet can't offer a condolence or two to a community (and ultimately a Nation) that lost a dozen in a senseless act.
And not only is GDub busy autographing bills for things he should stay out of - he's busy giving Paul Martin the two-bit tour of his ranch in Texas today! Some people have warped priorities!
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:37 PM   #44
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just goes to show how no one cares about what's going on in native communities (granted, some of this can be attributed to the fact that it's a nation & they are handling everything- the FBI, news reporters, etc. have been allowed minimal access/information - and the terri schiavo situation has taken precedence over all else concerning news)
even still, it has not been reported as widely as the columbine tragedy - and considering the magnitude of this, that's a shame!
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibby™
I think I sense yet another intense deliberation between, you me and Gotchie haha!
Nope you and me's on the same page today!
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:30 PM   #46
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Our People

I would just like to say a prayer for all of those involved in the shootings at Red Lake. Especially the families of the children who were shot. I would also like to say to our people, that blame doesnt get us anywhere, we need to come togather now and support our people as they are in pain and are suffering a great loss. Our children are the most important part of our lifes and it is time for us to hold our children near and really be a part of thier lives. Let this be a lesson to those of us who walk past our own people without so much as a word, and to those of us who forget that our children are our future. We are all related, so it is time for us all to mourn for the loss of these beautiful children and the adults who were trying to give of themselves to protect and guide that which is most important to us. My prayers and my thoughts go out to our people in Red Lake and to our people and our children here on Unci Maka.
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:00 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing Eagle
Nope you and me's on the same page today!
Yep. Still remember the good ol' days of e-bytch slapping each other!
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geronimo
just goes to show how no one cares about what's going on in native communities (granted, some of this can be attributed to the fact that it's a nation & they are handling everything- the FBI, news reporters, etc. have been allowed minimal access/information - and the terri schiavo situation has taken precedence over all else concerning news)
even still, it has not been reported as widely as the columbine tragedy - and considering the magnitude of this, that's a shame!
Fox News reporter last night said they are being given very little information and are being allowed only in a parking lot and one road around there. They are not being allowed access to any residents or students. HOORAY for Red Lake!! It's about time these leeches stopped praying on the families struck by such tragedies! Bad part is, they can only speculate on things and come up with their own stories like they tend to do a lot of the time.

My prayers go out to the entire community on this tragedy.
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:50 PM   #49
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Its just a bunch of indian kids t hat got it come on now they arent those rich white bred kids from columbine. Now you folks should know by now how much white america really views induns. Jibby Jibby Jibby if i didnt love you so much i would come up there and smack you.
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gache
Jibby Jibby Jibby if i didnt love you so much i would come up there and smack you.
Don't get your loin cloth in a knot! haha! It's all love still ;)
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:19 PM   #51
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>>>i got this from mtv.com, they also have a page where you can make comments <<<


Minnesota High School Shooter Lived Troubled, Lonely Life
03.23.2005 10:15 AM EST

Few really knew Weise, who struggled through a difficult childhood.
9-year old Jeff Weise
Photo: WCCO
Among a group of outcasts who wanted to disappear, Jeff Weise was virtually invisible.

"He had no friends; he didn't communicate," 14-year-old Allan Mosay told the MinneapolisStar-Tribune of the 16-year-old at the center of Minnesota's horrific school shooting. Mosay, who said he would occasionally see Weise on the Red Lake Reservation, explained that the troubled youth, who killed five students and four adults before turning a gun on himself Monday (see "High School Shooter Reportedly Admired Hitler, Was Previously Investigated"), was not known well by many in the small, tightly knit Red Lake community.

Sondra Hegstrom, who had classes with Weise, told the paper he was quiet and "never said anything," but that he was teased and "terrorized" by other students who thought he was weird. A family member said the 6-foot, 250-pound Weise had been held back several grades.

The troubled teen came from a fractured home. According to media reports, his father, Daryl "Baby Dash" Lussier Jr., committed suicide in 1997 after a day-long standoff with police. His mother, Joanne, is in a nursing home, confined to a wheelchair after suffering brain damage in a drunk-driving accident. Several residents told The New York Times that they believe Weise had been taking medication for emotional problems and that he had been admitted to the psychiatric ward of a hospital at some point last year.

He lived in bleak surroundings on the 880-acre reservation with a population of 5,118, 40 percent of which lived below the poverty level, according to the 2000 census.


Students described Weise wearing eyeliner and an oversized black trench coat, drawing pictures of skeletons and talking about death "all the time." The big black trenchcoat has become a symbol of high school massacres since the April 20, 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, during which killers Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, referred to as the "Trenchcoat Mafia," both wore them.

According to The Associated Press, classmate Parston Graves Jr. said that Weise sketched a skeleton strumming a guitar about a month ago, with the caption, "march to the death song 'til your boots fill with blood."

Weise seemed to model himself after the Columbine killers, said 18-year-old Willy May, who knew the boy from school. Like Klebold and Harris, he said, Weise frequently wore combat boots with red laces. May said Weise drew "disturbing" images of people with bullets going through their heads and that, at some point, Weise was blamed for phoning in bomb threats to the school.

Though they said he seemed suicidal and that he had once stated, "That would be cool if I shot up the school," those who knew Weise dismissed the comment as just talk.

A Red Lake High student, who said she probably avoided being shot by skipping her last period class (see "FBI: Minnesota Shooter Acted Alone, Chose Victims At Random"), told the Star-Tribune that she heard Weise was having some problems, but that he seemed normal to her. "He seemed like a pretty good guy," Alicia Meadow said. "Whenever I talked with him, he seemed all friendly. I never thought that anything like that would come from him."

But Minneapolis TV station WCCO-TV reported that Weise was obsessed with the obscure horror-core rapper Mars, particularly his song "Go Suicidal," which features the lyrics "no more pain, no more suffering, the dead ain't feeling nothing ... just put that pistol to your chin."

The rapper's upcoming album, which his official Web site said delves into subjects such as "murder ... and suicide" is called Some Girls Deserve to Die, a title inspired by police interrogation tapes of the serial killer known as the Hillside Strangler.

Weise, who had been pulled out of school and put in a home tutoring program last year for an unspecified medical reason, reportedly frequented a Nazi Web site, where he posted screeds decrying race mixing and the decline of "full-blooded Natives."

He is also reported to have been a regular visitor on fiction Web site Rise of the Dead, where, using the screen name "Blades11," he once wrote, "I'm a fan of zombie films, have been for years, as well as fan of horror movies in general. I like to write horror stories, read about Nazi Germany and history, and some day plan on moving out of the [United States]."

The inherent contradiction in wanting to affiliate himself with a movement that preached white supremacy had occurred to Native American Weise, but he still sought acceptance from the group society had shunned. Posting on a Nazi-sympathetic Web site last year, he wondered whether he was too young to join an Aryan supremacist group and if they would take a "non-white" Chippewa youth, according to a Washington Post report.

Despite his background, using the screen name "Todesengel," German for "angel of death," Weise was embraced on the site by a member who told him, "We welcome you, brother." When another member expressed hope that Weise would stick with the group, the teen responded, "Once I commit myself to something, I stay until the end."

A month after school authorities had suspected him of wanting to attack the school, the threat passed and Weise wrote: "I was cleared as a suspect. I'm glad for that. I don't much care for jail. I've never been there, and I don't plan on it."

Weise wrote of having a "natural admiration" for Adolf Hitler and his ideas "and his courage to take on larger nations ... It kind of angers me how people pass prejudgment on someone [who says he supports Hitler]." He also wrote of encountering some hostility because of his Nazi beliefs, but that "because of my size and appearance, people don't give me as much trouble as they would if I looked weak."

In a statement released Tuesday, the supremacist group confirmed Weise's use of the site, but did not denounce the tragedy, saying that it "refused to wring hands" over the rampage. The group also said that the murders confirmed its core beliefs in "eugenics, racial separation and removal of elements hostile to a healthy society."

If you ever see a student carrying a weapon, you can anonymously call (866) SPEAK-UP toll free and the tip will be forwarded to the proper local authorities.

Are you a Red Lake High School student with a story to share about this incident? Do you have thoughts and insight to share about your community? Please let us know what you'd like to share, and please include your age, hometown and contact information.

— Gil Kaufman
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:55 PM   #52
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Some observations/comments.

1. Jeff Weiss was involved in the same "Goth" subculture that
Eric Harris and Dillon Kliebold--the killers at Columbine--were
involved in, and had many of the same personality traits--no
close friends, an obsession with death and violence, etc. My
opinion is that many of the young people attracted to the
"Goth" lifestyle have serious emotional problems that need to
be addressed. They need counselling and therapy, not
rejection and punishment.

2. For years I have been saying that the Neo-Nazi websites
are dangerous--they try to incite violence, and target weak
minded or emotionally disturbed people. Notice that the
people who operate these websites never get involved in
violence themselves--they try to incite other people to do
their dirty work. Websites such as White Aryan Resistance,
Posse Commitatus, World Church of the Creator, National
Alliance, 14 Words Press, and Scriptures for America should
be SHUT DOWN. Just look at some of the cartoons on the
White Aryan Resistance website and tell me those don't incite
violence against minorities--and I will sell you some ocean
front property in Arizona.

3. I am baffled that a native person would be attracted to
neo-Nazism. After all, aren't ndn's supposed to be subhuman
"mud people" like blacks, Asians, and Jews, in the Neo-Nazi
mythology and demonology?
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:52 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Some observations/comments.

3. I am baffled that a native person would be attracted to
neo-Nazism. After all, aren't ndn's supposed to be subhuman
"mud people" like blacks, Asians, and Jews, in the Neo-Nazi
mythology and demonology?

It sounds like he agreed with the Nazi belief that all races should stay among their own and not mix (hence the "pure" Aryan). I highly doubt they accepted him as one of them or as an equal, but it did say that he agreed with some of the segregation rhetoric they spew.

I don't think it's that uncommon either. In my travels, I have known 2 Jewish adult men who, as teenagers, were obsessed with Nazism. One of them even had collected authentic items- an official flag and some pamphlets. They were pretty scary! There was also a great movie about it called 'Believer'. It's a pretty extreme case, but about a Jewish kid who hides his heritage and become the leader of a neo-Nazi group.

That said, remember where the info is coming from- media leeches. We're lucky if there's 10% truth in any of their stories.
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Old 03-24-2005, 09:49 AM   #54
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APTN NATIONAL NEWS SPECIAL
LIVE Thursday March 24 @ 7 pm eastern
TRAGEDY AT RED LAKE
10 dead; 14 wounded as teen opens fire at northern Minnesota
reservation school yesterday

For links go to: www.aptn.ca/news

It's being reported as the second worst school killing in the US since
Columbine, and a northern Minnesotan Aboriginal community is at the
center of the storm.

And although some might regard it as a strictly American tragedy,
Anishnabe ties cut across all borders, provincial or national.

APTN National News brings you a LIVE one hour call in at a special time
Thursday at 7 pm eastern, 6 central as we discuss How do we help our
children heal? How can Red Lake deal with the aftermath of this
tragedy? What can be done to prevent this from ever happening again?

Call in with your thoughts and comments toll free at 1-877-647-2786,
email your thoughts to contact@aptn.ca or visit our forum:
http://www.aptn.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=315

Note: This will re-air during Contact's original time on Friday March 25th
replacing our Encore Presentation of IS CANADA GUILTY OF ITS OWN
HOLOCAUST
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:49 PM   #55
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Well first off, I was shocked at the events and greatly saddened by it all. My thoughts and prayers go out to the whole community, especially those who were directly affected by this incident.

I don't really know what to say, however the grievances he lived through undeniably fueled whatever fire burned within him. It frightens me that no one bothered to help him let alone attempt a friendship with him. I have a brother who is into death metal, draws skulls and dresses in black, but has a wide variety of friends, attends the university with me, is very intelligent and goes to church almost every sunday. I think a lot of what people may have perceived of him is that he was inherently a "bad" person and had no hope in "fitting in". For all we know he may have been chastised in school like many goth kids, which probably spurred his anger in a direction that ended so tragically. The irony of this situation is that was a "purist" about Native American heritage but neglected the preservation of cultural standards; by destroying life and ultimately his own, he undermined his own beliefs.
My intention is not to defend his actions but to empathize with the pre-conditions and the many possible answers to which they had. Its upsetting to me personally, when a problem is not addressed but rather egged on in a bad direction, then later to know that it was avoidable. I feel that a community, especially if they are native, in part helps to raise a child. Instead of gossiping, action should have been taken to care for any obviously needful teen. I hope that this incident would hearken attention to ALL of our youth.
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:42 PM   #56
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I guess I am what might be considered "goth" I don't dress like anybody else, I've got black, blue and white dreadlocks in my hair right now, I'm into heavy metal and industrial, and
horror movies. When I was young and stupid I too thought hitler had some good ideas.

Hell, there were times when people pisses me off so bad that I really did want to kill them, and If the teachers hadn't pulled me off of them, I probably would have done serious damage. I was a pretty bad kid, and i was really bad at controlling my temper. But that whole premeditated walking into a school and killing other natives? I just can't get my head around it.
How can you kill you own kind? I don't get it.

I guess that's the difference between me and him.
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Old 03-24-2005, 08:21 PM   #57
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I was gonna say alot more in reply to that kids that listen to goth style need help, but I feel I dont need too. The same could be said of kids attracted to other type of music. But the music isnt to blame. We will never know what was going on in his head, what type of help he needed but never recieved. We can nit pick and say all this now. All I want to know why wasnt he ever given the help he needed, why blame that type of music, why wasnt he given prompt attention when his other actions were seen. Should of , could of , would of, those words dont help now. The biggest questions I have are when, we as adults going to help those who need it, when as a society are we going to help our children learn violence doesnt work. When are going to stop saying its because of music or this or that!! I feel very sorry for those who lost loved ones, because we all know from experience thats the worse pain of all. My prayers to all the families that are hurtin up in RedLake.
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Old 03-24-2005, 08:54 PM   #58
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To me, these kids are no different than kids we all know and love - everyone of us knows this young man - all of us. We have all looked in his eyes and not known what to say, but whispered "weird" or "strange" under our breathe. We have placed our arms around our kids and moved them out of this boys way...we have known his past and just said, "tsk, tsk, tsk" because we didn't know what to say. We have heard troubled things come out of their mouths, and some of us have reached out to him in time, and some of us did not. When we saw him going down the wrong path, many of us have said - "well I can't talk to Johnny because - well you know how he is."

What happened in Red Lake is an absolute tragedy....but it could have happened in any of our communities. Let's hope that this situation can at least shed light to our kids and instill hope - let's pray it shows our children what happens when you do give up - what happens when you do snap - and as we will all witness in the next few days, weeks and months - one invisible teen's actions in a few minutes have not only affected his family, his school, tribe and community, it has affected all of us.

Hug your kids - love them - show them how much you care - you have a second chance - those that lost their lives that day, don't.

Peace.
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:10 AM   #59
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im pretty sure that this wasnt the first shooting in the red lake school. a few years back a student opened fire. i dont know all the details. shame on me if this is a cruel rumor/memory.

red lake is a hop skip and jump from our rez. its no secret that its a rowdy place. my family has always warned me of those nasty red lakers. i really dont see it that way. i see some talented singers and dancers. one of the best powwows i ever been to was in red lake. that bit has kept me coming back. matter of fact im headed back this summer..

and lastly. the first thing i thought of when i heard about the shootings was meth. meth has found its way into this community. but i dont wanna start anything or open wounds or whatever soo for whatever reason id thought id throw that in...
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:22 PM   #60
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Our e-mails worked!!!! Bush responded!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_frien...151538,00.html

Bush Offers Condolences for Monday's School Shooting

Friday, March 25, 2005



WACO, Texas — President George W. Bush (search) on Friday expressed condolences to the leader of the Minnesota Indian reservation where 10 people died Monday in the second-worst school shooting in U.S. history.

Bush talked to Floyd Jourdain Jr., chairman of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa (search), for five minutes Friday morning, offering his sympathy for the victims of a teen-ager's shooting rampage and for the entire Red Lake community. He pledged to provide federal assistance, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Jeff Weise (search), 16, shot to death five students, a security guard and a teacher at the school on Red Lake Indian reservation, then killed himself. Earlier, he shot to death his grandfather and the man's girlfriend.

Some American Indians have complained that Bush did not respond publicly to the shooting for four days. Just hours after the shootings at Colorado's Columbine High School that left 15 dead, then-President Bill Clinton publicly expressed his condolences.

Perino said that Bush tried to call Jourdain a couple of times on Thursday but couldn't reach him. "I know that he got voice mail a couple of times," she said.

Gifts of money have been pouring into the tribe as it prepares for the victims' funerals. Bush told Jourdain that he used part of his weekly radio address to encourage Americans to send more help, Perino said. The president's address was taped Friday morning and will be broadcast Saturday.
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