Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues Two-spirit dancing Two-spirit dancing

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-01-2011, 11:47 PM   #1
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
T

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................v
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 04:05 AM   #2
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
HaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Larryville
Posts: 40
Credits: 588.45
Savings: 0.00
first: what tribe are you? it makes a difference to the discussion
and
my thought are this:
there is stuff that women are supposed to do and arent supposed to do
there is stuff that men are supposed to and stuff they arent supposed to

in some ways there are people who fall between these lines and can do certain things, but i dont think dancing "mens traditional" is one of them, im not northern but thats just how it seems to me, maybe a northerner could add their thoughts since that is where that dance comes from

maybe go with mens fancy if your really wanting to dance like a man..
for one thing women used to do that, ive seen pics and talked to a few older women who have when they were younger

and if you danced fancy it would probably be harder for people to tell your a women, since it sounds like your set on dancing like a man

another note is that if you are going to dance as a man at least make yourself look like a man and not halfway (i dont know how you dress yourself or how you look, but if people can tell your a woman that easily that all kinds of people are coming up to you about it your probably looking a bit womanly..) maybe you need a compression shirt..

and just as a side note i am stating this because i am myself gay (tho i dont call myself "two-spirit" for a few reasons, but thats a different discussion) and so i am just sharing my opinions with you as a peer in that respect...

and from my own standpoint i dance as a man and live my life as a man (and last time i checked im biologically male, just to clarify lol) but i dont know of anyone off hand in my generation that habitually dances in the clothes of a gender they are not biologically endowed with lol (0_0)
tho i do know people that switch dance and may even do so quite often but that isnt really the same thing

thats what i think, take it or leave it, im nobody important to be dictating what you can or cant do, but thats what i think and thats my advice

---
just thought i would add that actually i cant think of anyone off hand that habitually dresses in clothes of the "opposite gender" -in the powwow arena- of any generation, with the exception of the previously stated woman fancy feather dancers.. but from what i understand that wasnt really an "alternative gender" thing...
---
just noticied you stated switch dance is "a mocking of heritage and culture".. why would you say that?

Last edited by HaskellAlum; 04-02-2011 at 04:17 AM.. Reason: two added thoughts
HaskellAlum is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 04:08 AM   #3
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RinLou is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
You are not forgotten

I am so excited to hear of you. :) I see the struggles the gay and lesbian community are going through right now and whenever someone brings up the topic I always say the same thing
"Well, ya know in most Native cultures homosexual, bisexual, trasngendered, etc. were revered by their community, they were seen as possesing something magical and special that was to be shared, loved, and honored; not shunned, rejected or hated." I'm usually confronted with looks of confusion after this. To which I continue "Ya know, because it was like they posses two spirits....could see both sides," It usually clicked about then and the "oh yeahs" and "I could see that" starts (I also live in a mostly liberal area of northern CA). Thankfully I didn't have to continue because I didn't know a whole, whole lot. Now I have some more information from reading your post, and for that I am grateful. Thank you
Maybe we shouldn't blame them entirely sis. Perhaps you are aware of the traditions because you had to be, where others (heterosexuals) didn't have the awarness. May I suggest printing a flyer or something with the traditions involving the Wintke, to have with you at your next dance and educating our misled brothers and sisters. :) Btw, mad props on being respectful (though not understanding the hypocrisy) and asking permission.
Dance on. I remember you :)
RinLou is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 11:48 AM   #4
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
.................................................. ..
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 11:58 AM   #5
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
.......................
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 12:04 PM   #6
Pow Wow Visitor
 
wanjica_the_one's Avatar
 
Items PresentDolphinDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: west of the missouri (lakota)
Posts: 1,042
Credits: 36,801.61
Savings: 0.00
Being raised by Lakota does not give you tribal priviledges. Who dressed you? Who taught you? Who spoke for you at your coming out ceremony? Who was the drum who sang your honor song? Which wacipi did this take place at? Who helped with your giveaway? How long did you prepare before dancing like a man? Which northern plains family assisted you?
wanjica_the_one is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 12:05 PM   #7
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
................

Last edited by RainWarrior; 04-02-2011 at 12:19 PM..
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 12:07 PM   #8
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
..............................

Last edited by RainWarrior; 04-03-2011 at 03:41 PM..
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 01:03 PM   #9
Pow Wow Visitor
 
wanjica_the_one's Avatar
 
Items PresentDolphinDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: west of the missouri (lakota)
Posts: 1,042
Credits: 36,801.61
Savings: 0.00
Expect to have a counter reaction at your coming out ceremony. I have seen this happen one time. People may turn their backs on you.
wanjica_the_one is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 03:03 PM   #10
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
terrylynn's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
terrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scale
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: right here for now
Posts: 41
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I am new to everything so please be patiant,besides mens traditional and the jingle dance.isnt there another form for the women.who want to dance alittle more similar to the men,I dont wish to sound disrespectable.or is it how it should be.I understand there are spiritual dances,and other dances,is there aspecial or is there aloud to be a circle for woman who dont wish to disrespect anyone ,wish to show thier admiration for the dances that are meaningful to them as well as the men?
terrylynn is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 06:50 PM   #11
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
.........................
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 07:42 PM   #12
HUUUUUUUUUH!
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Iowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond repute
Iowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,140
Credits: 4,359.51
Savings: 0.00
Two spirit is a modern term. You must be whatever your tribe/culture calls you. You cannot be a winkte, that term was used only for men who assumed the gender roles of women. There was no Lakota gender form of a woman who assumed the roles of men.

Too many contemporary homosexual pick and choose terminology from tribes they are not a part of to justify a modern lifestyle that has no direct connection to an historic form.

I am not trying to be negative, I am trying to be honest with you. If you are cherokee, then be cherokee.
Iowa_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-02-2011, 07:44 PM   #13
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
.........................
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 12:16 AM   #14
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
terrylynn's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
terrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scale
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: right here for now
Posts: 41
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Smile i have a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainWarrior View Post
I'm a woman and I get a lot of disrespect for dancing Men's traditional. There are those that say it is not traditional for a woman to dance this way. I am saddened at the ignorance when it comes to the tradition of the Two-spirit. The Cherokee word is Ski-Gin (that way) in Lakota we are called the Winkte (two spirits) to be a two spirit is to be a person who bi, les, gay etc. What's sad is most (not all) native cultures highly respected people like me who were two spirits. I guess I'm just nervous, I'm headed to a inter tribal pow wow tomorrow and its going to be so hard for me, I know that there will be looks and frowns people thinking I am not traditional or that perhaps I'm simply doing it for attention or to disrupt tradition.

Looking back at historical documentations there are over 130 tribes that supported people like me, now days we get called "non-traditional" or asked to leave a pow wow... Like we are doing something wrong when it is simply how creator made us.

I wanted to know what people thought on here, or at least shed some light on a dark subject. Maybe help someone who didn't understand when they ran into a two-spirit why they were dressed that way? To help educate so maybe instead of frowns there would be understanding.

My elders tell me that being Winkte is special, we were the medicine people, the inbetweens, now we are frowned upon, persecuted..... Has anyone else on here ever come across another two spirit at a pow wow that corss dresses? We are few and far between but I have seen some out there including men that jingle dress, but according to most traditions we should be respected yet we get laughed at and mocked for our medicine. Even if your tribe didn't honor the two-spirit at an inter tribal everyone is allowed to dance and we come together to respect all our cultures and get along in celebration, especially if it isnt on a reservation.

Even though I'm Winkte and its tradition for me to dance either womens or men's traditional I always ask permission before entering the circle. I don't agree with switch dancing as its a mocking of heritage and culture. I dance men's traditional because it is what I am supposed to do, it is not a laughing matter.

Your thoughts?
yes i dont want too disrespect anyone ,are there some dances for woman that are more up beat as the mens dances,is it possible to come up with new dances?or must they be traditional?thank you so much for your time and understanding
terrylynn is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 06:32 AM   #15
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
HaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond reputeHaskellAlum has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Larryville
Posts: 40
Credits: 588.45
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainWarrior View Post
Yes the winkte word was coined in the 80's or 90's I suppose it is quite new age.


Then the term I will use is Ski-gin' the word of my people.

Thank you.
*scratches head*
theres some many statements you have made that i would love to pick apart and show you what i feel is wrong with them but that would be counterproductive, and frankly an extremly enourmous consumption of my time.

let me just ask are you aware of what the word "ski-gin" means? ie have you talked with someone knowledgable about it? im not asking you to to repeat that information just asking if you know it.

we have a word in my tribes language and ive been told what it means and what it entails, tho i am not confortable sharing this for different reasons. just think you should actually -know- and not be assuming because you seem to have misinterepted a few things.

i dont want to keep beating a dead horse, or sound rude but
as stated before, the words "winkte" and "two-spirit" are new agy terms and are missused which is why i do not apply them to myself. i have never heard an elder call me or someone like me a "two spirit".
and like so many words invovling native americans (like the word native american) there is a nomenclature issue.

i dont even know where to begin on that one, but suffice it to say that women and men are vastly different and the reasons for being "gay" are different for both of them.

oh and just as a side note
i have heard that there are a few certain powwows up north somewhere that have crossdresses present tho i have no idea of names dates or locations. maybe you would be interested in being involved with those..

Last edited by HaskellAlum; 04-03-2011 at 06:41 AM..
HaskellAlum is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 10:02 AM   #16
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 15,758
Credits: 118,564.58
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainWarrior View Post
I'm a woman and I get a lot of disrespect for dancing Men's traditional. There are those that say it is not traditional for a woman to dance this way. I am saddened at the ignorance when it comes to the tradition of the Two-spirit. The Cherokee word is Ski-Gin (that way) in Lakota we are called the Winkte (two spirits) to be a two spirit is to be a person who bi, les, gay etc. What's sad is most (not all) native cultures highly respected people like me who were two spirits. I guess I'm just nervous, I'm headed to a inter tribal pow wow tomorrow and its going to be so hard for me, I know that there will be looks and frowns people thinking I am not traditional or that perhaps I'm simply doing it for attention or to disrupt tradition.

Looking back at historical documentations there are over 130 tribes that supported people like me, now days we get called "non-traditional" or asked to leave a pow wow... Like we are doing something wrong when it is simply how creator made us.

I wanted to know what people thought on here, or at least shed some light on a dark subject. Maybe help someone who didn't understand when they ran into a two-spirit why they were dressed that way? To help educate so maybe instead of frowns there would be understanding.

My elders tell me that being Winkte is special, we were the medicine people, the inbetweens, now we are frowned upon, persecuted..... Has anyone else on here ever come across another two spirit at a pow wow that corss dresses? We are few and far between but I have seen some out there including men that jingle dress, but according to most traditions we should be respected yet we get laughed at and mocked for our medicine. Even if your tribe didn't honor the two-spirit at an inter tribal everyone is allowed to dance and we come together to respect all our cultures and get along in celebration, especially if it isnt on a reservation.

Even though I'm Winkte and its tradition for me to dance either womens or men's traditional I always ask permission before entering the circle. I don't agree with switch dancing as its a mocking of heritage and culture. I dance men's traditional because it is what I am supposed to do, it is not a laughing matter.

Your thoughts?
First. Let me say welcome to powwows.com. You'll find the people open and warm. That being sad. I've been following this thread since the first post. I'm heterosexual and love it that way. If you don't have a problem with me being heterosexual, I don't have a problem with you being lesbian, gay, whatever name you want to use.

I do have a couple of observations. First, I see you jumping from Cherokee to Lakota references. When challenged about the Lakota word 'winkte', you move over and say you'll use the Cherokee word. Why didn't you challenge the poster who commented about the word? Which band are you from?

I also observed you saying you had issues with being allowed to dance the warrior's dance at certain powwows. Then you jump over and start talking about a family in Pine Ridge and traditionalists. What is it going to be? Traditionalist or contemp powwow? Do you sign up to dance contest? Do you enter GE with adult or Jr eagle bustle dancers?

I've also noticed you using the word 'should', as in people should be forced to accept your ways. My opinion is people will accept what they are willing to accept. Nothing more, nothing less.

My opinions are based on my years on this earth. In my time, I have seen many social changes. Some good. Some not so good. Not all openly accepted. I do not confuse social with culture.

I found this link that is of interest. I thought it had some good information. Hope it doesn't offend anyone.

Curve: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle to Find Their Way

Again, let me say welcome here. You'll meet some very nice people. I want to think I am one of them.

Jim
__________________


Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman

Last edited by Joe's Dad; 04-03-2011 at 12:31 PM..
Joe's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 10:14 AM   #17
HUUUUUUUUUH!
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Iowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond repute
Iowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond reputeIowa_Boy has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,140
Credits: 4,359.51
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainWarrior View Post
Yes the winkte word was coined in the 80's or 90's I suppose it is quite new age.


Then the term I will use is Ski-gin' the word of my people.

Thank you.
The "two-spirit" term is modern, "winkte" is a very old term. Two spirit is new age. There is a complete set of cultural constructions that go along with winkte, that are deeply embedded in to Lakota culture that are not typically seen in someone who today identifies themselves as winkte.
Iowa_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 12:14 PM   #18
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
terrylynn's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
terrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scale
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: right here for now
Posts: 41
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaskellAlum View Post
*scratches head*
theres some many statements you have made that i would love to pick apart and show you what i feel is wrong with them but that would be counterproductive, and frankly an extremly enourmous consumption of my time.

let me just ask are you aware of what the word "ski-gin" means? ie have you talked with someone knowledgable about it? im not asking you to to repeat that information just asking if you know it.

we have a word in my tribes language and ive been told what it means and what it entails, tho i am not confortable sharing this for different reasons. just think you should actually -know- and not be assuming because you seem to have misinterepted a few things.

i dont want to keep beating a dead horse, or sound rude but
as stated before, the words "winkte" and "two-spirit" are new agy terms and are missused which is why i do not apply them to myself. i have never heard an elder call me or someone like me a "two spirit".
and like so many words invovling native americans (like the word native american) there is a nomenclature issue.

i dont even know where to begin on that one, but suffice it to say that women and men are vastly different and the reasons for being "gay" are different for both of them.

oh and just as a side note
i have heard that there are a few certain powwows up north somewhere that have crossdresses present tho i have no idea of names dates or locations. maybe you would be interested in being involved with those..
oh i thank you for clearing that up i am not gay.I was just wondering and yes i understand men and women are different .i was wondering about the dances.i dont want to sound disrespectful of anything ,i have noticed that womans dances are slower,forgive me if you get mad ,cant we as a woman have a dance not the same as men ,only similar.i know men and woman are different.some like to dance fast like the men.i dont mean to sound disrespectful..i have a question do woman have sort of the same rights as a man.i understand there is a reason that we are different.and there are sacerd dances that the man have.I would love for a man to take care of me.when i see him dance i know in my heart i would want to dance with him.or would that be considerd shameful?be honest with me.is it so wrong for us to want to enjoy the same things as men do.or is there a special meaning for the fancy dance??Please by all means pick apart my statements .i wont learn if i am not properly taught.thank you.yes i am straight and female100% thank you for your time.
terrylynn is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 12:25 PM   #19
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
terrylynn's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
terrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scaleterrylynn is off the scale
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: right here for now
Posts: 41
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaskellAlum View Post
first: what tribe are you? it makes a difference to the discussion
and
my thought are this:
there is stuff that women are supposed to do and arent supposed to do
there is stuff that men are supposed to and stuff they arent supposed to

in some ways there are people who fall between these lines and can do certain things, but i dont think dancing "mens traditional" is one of them, im not northern but thats just how it seems to me, maybe a northerner could add their thoughts since that is where that dance comes from

maybe go with mens fancy if your really wanting to dance like a man..
for one thing women used to do that, ive seen pics and talked to a few older women who have when they were younger

and if you danced fancy it would probably be harder for people to tell your a women, since it sounds like your set on dancing like a man

another note is that if you are going to dance as a man at least make yourself look like a man and not halfway (i dont know how you dress yourself or how you look, but if people can tell your a woman that easily that all kinds of people are coming up to you about it your probably looking a bit womanly..) maybe you need a compression shirt..

and just as a side note i am stating this because i am myself gay (tho i dont call myself "two-spirit" for a few reasons, but thats a different discussion) and so i am just sharing my opinions with you as a peer in that respect...

and from my own standpoint i dance as a man and live my life as a man (and last time i checked im biologically male, just to clarify lol) but i dont know of anyone off hand in my generation that habitually dances in the clothes of a gender they are not biologically endowed with lol (0_0)
tho i do know people that switch dance and may even do so quite often but that isnt really the same thing

thats what i think, take it or leave it, im nobody important to be dictating what you can or cant do, but thats what i think and thats my advice

---
just thought i would add that actually i cant think of anyone off hand that habitually dresses in clothes of the "opposite gender" -in the powwow arena- of any generation, with the exception of the previously stated woman fancy feather dancers.. but from what i understand that wasnt really an "alternative gender" thing...
---
just noticied you stated switch dance is "a mocking of heritage and culture".. why would you say that?
i dont think i said that .nope i went back and checked that was a post from rainwater it was at the end of my post i put a quote there .i dont say things like that

Last edited by terrylynn; 04-03-2011 at 12:29 PM..
terrylynn is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2011, 03:07 PM   #20
Rain Warrior
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to beholdRainWarrior is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 33
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
..........................

Last edited by RainWarrior; 04-03-2011 at 03:23 PM..
RainWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Straight Dancing Pan-Tribal? WisconsinBlackBear Straight Dancing 80 08-07-2009 10:44 PM
Harjo: Dancing on graves of missing Native Americans Kakeeya Native Issues 0 07-26-2004 12:52 PM
dancing and ways of the powwow Nishnawbe10 Jingle Dancing 5 06-06-2003 06:22 PM
Intertribal Dancing - different ways of dancing lngfthr Archives 25 10-04-2001 12:10 AM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery