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Old 02-17-2010, 03:14 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outershell View Post
As a gay person i have found that when a straight person says "flaunting" they usually mean "existing".
As a straight person, I have found that when a gay person says "existing," they often mean "flaunting."

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And there's nothing I can do...
That's just untrue, and even a little paranoid?

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I can walk down the street and be accused of "flaunting it".
Can't, anyone?

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Its the complainer's problem that they are uncomfortable and they will have to learn to deal with it.
Uh, no. Poor taste is poor taste.

To press their radicalized agenda, many gay people have a tendency to desire doing things in public that I don't desire to see straight folks do. At that point, it's just exhibitionism.
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:07 PM   #182
Ugh. As. If.
 
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I remember this past summer me and my man decided to go hang out downtown. So we catch the bus and a gay guy is waiting at the same stop. He was well dressed, very nice hair cut and easy smile. It was early evening and the bus was packed. We get to 8th street and he was being too nice trying to get off the bus. With people standing in the aisles you have to push past them to get off. He wasn't moving fast enough and when the bus started moving he put his arm out in front of him (you know the "talk to the hand" gesture) and said very loud in his undeniably gay accent- Exxxxcuuuuuse Meeeeeee! Back Door! So the bus stops again and let's him off. Now the whole bus is quiet and we get off at the next street. We are getting off the bus when my man mockingly said excuuuusssse me! Back Door! That is when the whole bus started cracking up!

True story, still makes me smile. The guy seemed nice and if I ran into him again I would bring it up and I'm sure he would get a laugh out of it too.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:51 PM   #183
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What people do in their bedrooms is their business.

My only questions are:

Why do they think I need to know about it?

Why do they need me to approve of it?

I can see where LGBT folks would want "acceptance" in society - the ability to live and work in a community without fear of persecution. I think where the difficulty comes in is that when seeking "acceptance" turns into pushing for "approval" of their way of life. That is where both sides need to show some restraint. People who don't "approve" of LBGT shouldn't be persecuted for their point of view any more than LBGT should be persecuted or discriminated against in the workplace, school, community, etc.

Does that make sense?
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:07 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
As a straight person, I have found that when a gay person says "existing," they often mean "flaunting."
Fair enough. What behaviors do you consider to be "flaunting?"

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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Poor taste is poor taste.
Agreed!

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To press their radicalized agenda, many gay people have a tendency to desire doing things in public that I don't desire to see straight folks do. At that point, it's just exhibitionism.
But...I don't think what you, I or any individual desires to see is truly relevant to the question of what is acceptable public behavior. If society "accepts," for example, straight couples walking down the street hand in hand - I don't think society can then turn around and condemn gay couples for doing the exact same thing. By definition, it can't be "flaunting" or "exhibitionism" if everyone else is doing it, too.

Thanks for pulling this thread back up. I always enjoy your posts - 'cause when I see the name Zeke, I know thoughts will be provoked!
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:18 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
What people do in their bedrooms is their business.

My only questions are:

Why do they think I need to know about it?

Why do they need me to approve of it?

I can see where LGBT folks would want "acceptance" in society - the ability to live and work in a community without fear of persecution. I think where the difficulty comes in is that when seeking "acceptance" turns into pushing for "approval" of their way of life. That is where both sides need to show some restraint. People who don't "approve" of LBGT shouldn't be persecuted for their point of view any more than LBGT should be persecuted or discriminated against in the workplace, school, community
Does that make sense?
Makes sense to me. People tend to confuse "tolerance" with "approval." Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean you have to like it. There are a lot of things in society that I don't approve of at all...but I still have to tolerate them. Or, as I've always said: people can hate me because of my gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, marital status, or whatever reason they see fit...They just don't get to "f" with me because of it. And that's really all anyone can ask for.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:24 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Uh, no. Poor taste is poor taste.

To press their radicalized agenda, many gay people have a tendency to desire doing things in public that I don't desire to see straight folks do. At that point, it's just exhibitionism.
What's in poor taste? To be as i am? To be comfortable in my own skin? To not be ashamed or repressed?

I'm not feminine by nature. I don't dress in a feminine way, and therefore I get remarks from random strangers that I am "wrong" because of how i look. Its wrong not to dress "pretty". Pretty for someone else. Pretty by someone else rules. Because .. you know.... its a woman's job to be pretty. Its somehow wrong not to make myself available to men sexually and emotionally. All I'm trying to do is get to the post office.

Maybe it is "Radical" to not spend all that money on dresses and cosmetics and spa treatments and all that crap women do to make themselves pretty enough for.... whoever? But i suppose the drag queens pick up my slack. Totally "radical", dude.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:44 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
What people do in their bedrooms is their business.

My only questions are:

Why do they think I need to know about it?

Why do they need me to approve of it?

I can see where LGBT folks would want "acceptance" in society - the ability to live and work in a community without fear of persecution. I think where the difficulty comes in is that when seeking "acceptance" turns into pushing for "approval" of their way of life. That is where both sides need to show some restraint. People who don't "approve" of LBGT shouldn't be persecuted for their point of view any more than LBGT should be persecuted or discriminated against in the workplace, school, community, etc.

Does that make sense?
Let's consider a real world example for a second:
Let's say you have been together with your mate for nearly 20 years. you have a house together, raised kids together, built a life together.
You go on vacation in Florida and your mate has an aneurysm and collapses in front of you.
Rushing to the hospital, with your kids worried and afraid.... the hospital treats you like ... a monster. Refusing you information. Refusing you visitation. And telling you that ... because you're different.... you don't have the same rights as normal, proper people.

This happened to Janice Langbehn and her partner Lisa Pond.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/health/19well.html

Now does this require everyone elses "approval" to get visitation rights at the hospital or is "acceptance" enough?
Was the hospital afraid that if they let Janice in to the IC unit they were just going to start having gay sex right there on the gurney?
This is what the "radical agenda" of gay marriage is about. This is why two adults who chose to get married want their marriage recognized.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:19 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outershell View Post
Let's consider a real world example for a second:
Let's say you have been together with your mate for nearly 20 years. you have a house together, raised kids together, built a life together.
You go on vacation in Florida and your mate has an aneurysm and collapses in front of you.
Rushing to the hospital, with your kids worried and afraid.... the hospital treats you like ... a monster. Refusing you information. Refusing you visitation. And telling you that ... because you're different.... you don't have the same rights as normal, proper people.

This happened to Janice Langbehn and her partner Lisa Pond.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/health/19well.html

Now does this require everyone elses "approval" to get visitation rights at the hospital or is "acceptance" enough?
Was the hospital afraid that if they let Janice in to the IC unit they were just going to start having gay sex right there on the gurney?
This is what the "radical agenda" of gay marriage is about. This is why two adults who chose to get married want their marriage recognized.
I work in health care, and I don't understand why someone in this situation wouldn't be allowed to visit their partner. "Acceptance" should provide for that.

Unfortunately the HIPAA laws have made health care entities EXTREMELY protective of patient information. It is possible that the hospital's actions were due to their concern over privacy issues and had nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the patient.

Nonrelated individuals are allowed to even give consent for medical procedures with the proper paperwork, i.e., medical power of attorney.

I'm going to throw something out there, and I don't mean to offend you or anyone else...

Is it possible that a perceived injustice to someone of a minority status (race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.) is just automatically attributed by some to being bigotry, racism, homophobia, or the like? Could it be that some folks are just jerks?
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:30 AM   #189
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Could it be that some folks are just jerks?
Or, bound by law?

Civil Unions fix this, but that's not enough for the gay agenda... (Which, my perception, is to be mainstream. I can live with that -- it doesn't harm me -- but don't be like 2nd Amendment Nazis who "support" their cause by parading around with an open carry sidearm...)

Here's the deal: poor taste is poor taste. If I don't want to see heterosexual folks doing it in public, I don't want to see homosexual people doing it, in public.

Now, could the definitions of "poor taste" differ due to where you are and who is involved?

SURE.

But that happens, everywhere. It's not a "poor me" gay thing. If walk around, in Tulsa, with a girl that looks like Nicole Kidman, we both get dirty looks...
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:36 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Or, bound by law?

Civil Unions fix this, but that's not enough for the gay agenda... (Which, my perception, is to be mainstream. I can live with that -- it doesn't harm me -- but don't be like 2nd Amendment Nazis who "support" their cause by parading around with an open carry sidearm...)

Here's the deal: poor taste is poor taste. If I don't want to see heterosexual folks doing it in public, I don't want to see homosexual people doing it, in public.

Now, could the definitions of "poor taste" differ due to where you are and who is involved?

SURE.

But that happens, everywhere. It's not a "poor me" gay thing. If walk around, in Tulsa, with a girl that looks like Nicole Kidman, we both get dirty looks...
That's why I brought up the HIPAA laws. Enforcement of the law doesn't make one a jerk, but the "way" in which it is enforced could. There is always a gracious way to handle things or an insensitive way.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #191
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idk

Wow I don't know where you live Zeke that you see gay men doing it in public.

Personally I find that straight people are more likely given to overzealous public displays.

Maybe I live a sheltered life idk.
There are gay people in various social circles that I am apart of.
They are as respectful as anyone else.They want the same rights as any other
person.

Not that it matters but I am not gay but I can see why my friends are working so hard for change.

As far as acting gay, femenine or butch or whatever,
Most likely people are just being themselves. It is not like someone says gee
I think I'll go freak out the heteros today. If a person is freaked out I think that says more about them than the behavior of somone who is homosexual.

annie
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
As a straight person, I have found that when a gay person says "existing," they often mean "flaunting."

To press their radicalized agenda, many gay people have a tendency to desire doing things in public that I don't desire to see straight folks do. At that point, it's just exhibitionism.


I hate it when I'm just minding my own business and I walk by a bunch of gays hooking up in the middle of the street without a care in the world; damn flaunters. If I had a dollar for every time I saw that; I'd be broke.

Their "radicalized agenda" is disturbing; it is so outrageous that someone who is different would have the nerve to ask for the same rights as "normal folk".

If it were up to me I would just strip all the rights from anyone who doesn't fit exactly into the corn fed, six pack drinkin, NASCAR watchin, cross burning mainstream.

(sarcasm)
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:55 AM   #193
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I hate it when I'm just minding my own business and I walk by a bunch of gays hooking up in the middle of the street without a care in the world; damn flaunters. If I had a dollar for every time I saw that; I'd be broke.

Their "radicalized agenda" is disturbing; it is so outrageous that someone who is different would have the nerve to ask for the same rights as "normal folk".

If it were up to me I would just strip all the rights from anyone who doesn't fit exactly into the corn fed, six pack drinkin, NASCAR watchin, cross burning mainstream.

(sarcasm)
So you've just passed judgment on someone whose tolerance levels are different than yours.

How does that make you any better?
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #194
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So you've just passed judgment on someone whose tolerance levels are different than yours.

How does that make you any better?
Please quote the judgment passing if you find any in my post.

It's not like I was calling anyone a "jerk".
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:38 PM   #195
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It's not like I was calling anyone a "jerk".
Calling me a jerk is redundant, anyway.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:31 PM   #196
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I'm going to be lazy and not quote everything I respond to. Hopefully, this won't be too disjointed.

HIPPA/Medical Records

You have a point, NorthofAda, sometimes there is no bigotry involved. Although I will say that HIPPA is about as clear as mud. I work in mental health - and I once had to try to explain to a woman that she was not entitled to access her partner's child's psych. records - not because she was a lesbian, or because I disrespected her relationship with the mother - but because she wasn't the child's biological parent. It would've been the same if it had been a straight couple, and the step-father wanted access to the records. The answer would have to be "no" unless the mother signed a release. She wasn't convinced - but it was a case of seeing homophobia where none existed. And since the mother continually refused to sign a release, I have to say that at least in that case, the law worked as intended.

Civil Unions/Powers of Attorney

I wish I could agree with you, Zeke, that civil unions "fix" such problems, but I'm afraid I can't. They should, but (imo) they don't. The reason is the dirty little secret of the courts: judge shopping. In Texas (and I suspect in large parts of the rest of the country as well) it isn't difficult to find a "sympathetic" judge who will set aside a partner's power of attorney when faced with a "grieving" mother who "just wants to do right by her boy." I've seen way too many cases where someone has been disowned by their family for being gay. That is, until their child is in the end-stages of dying from AIDS. Then the family swoops in like carpet-bagging locusts, and simply gets the power of attorney changed, 'cause after all, they're blood. It just isn't that difficult to do.

I admit that, in truth, civil unions are so new that the jury is still out on them...but I don't think I've ever heard a city, state (or whatever) debate civil unions where they haven't been described as: granting almost all the same rights and privileges of marriage. So, yes, I'm very suspicious of that "almost." I think, whatever "exceptions" there are will be used as a way for other people to come between a person and his/her chosen spouse.

Which is why I don't think anything other than a legal relationship for gay/lesbian couples, (and it can be called Civil Union if you want, I don't care) that is the exact legal equivalent of marriage is just.

Judges and courts can't dissolve/ignore marriages on judicial whim.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:47 PM   #197
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I hate it when I'm just minding my own business and I walk by a bunch of gays hooking up in the middle of the street without a care in the world; damn flaunters. If I had a dollar for every time I saw that; I'd be broke.

Their "radicalized agenda" is disturbing; it is so outrageous that someone who is different would have the nerve to ask for the same rights as "normal folk".

If it were up to me I would just strip all the rights from anyone who doesn't fit exactly into the corn fed, six pack drinkin, NASCAR watchin, cross burning mainstream.

(sarcasm)
This is by far the most hilarious thing I have read today. Thank you! I had a rough one today. My best friend was in the IRS building that some tea bagger anti-government cowerdly wackjob few his little plane in to today in Austin, TX so I really needed a laugh in a big way. I spent a few hours wondering if she was ok and she is! Zeke, you know I like ya and agree with you on a lot of threads but come on, lighten up buddy! Get outta yer head and have a heart on this one.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:17 AM   #198
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This is by far the most hilarious thing I have read today. Thank you! I had a rough one today. My best friend was in the IRS building that some tea bagger anti-government cowerdly wackjob few his little plane in to today in Austin, TX so I really needed a laugh in a big way. I spent a few hours wondering if she was ok and she is! Zeke, you know I like ya and agree with you on a lot of threads but come on, lighten up buddy! Get outta yer head and have a heart on this one.
I heard about that on the news. I'm glad to hear that you're friend is ok.
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:26 PM   #199
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This is by far the most hilarious thing I have read today. Thank you! I had a rough one today. My best friend was in the IRS building that some tea bagger anti-government cowerdly wackjob few his little plane in to today in Austin, TX so I really needed a laugh in a big way. I spent a few hours wondering if she was ok and she is! Zeke, you know I like ya and agree with you on a lot of threads but come on, lighten up buddy! Get outta yer head and have a heart on this one.
I'm glad your friend is okay. Violence is never the answer.

I was not aware that there was evidence that this perpetrator was involved in the tea party movement. A review of his manifesto shows that he hated Bush, hated Reagan, and was against the tax cuts made in the 1980s. Neither am I inclined to blame the left for the University of Alabama professor who murdered several individuals even though she was reported to be a "a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting."
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:57 AM   #200
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Good news. I might have a potential boyfriend with a Navajo guy.
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