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Old 11-26-2006, 03:15 PM   #41
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Did some thinkin on the subject last night

Before I posted last night, my wife and I went out to see a good friend performing music at a Tex-Mex restuarunt and bar. The food was OK and a bit over priced but the music and company we kept was great so we didn't mind too much about the over spending. We were home by 11:45. Our first night out alone without the kids in years. Call it a "HOT DATE"! We had fun.

Then I saw the bible slinging on the thread. "Now wait a sec here" I said to myself and posted my reply to the bible slinging.

I felt it was fair to say what I said because I feel the bible slinging isn't fair here because we are talking about what we think of the subject from a non-religious view. There was never a question of morals here. There was no right or wrong. It was all personal viewpoints without religious content.

So If you want to sling the bible over this issue then let's take it to another thread. I'll sling that book with you over the subject. And yes I can do it! I have had much study in the bible in many forms. For every chapter and verse you can sling, I can sling the counter part. Now where would the subject get us? Nowhere! Because for every verse, there is at least one counter verse showing that you are wrong. I can take the bible and make it say anything I want it to say just as any one else can.

Anyone want to play "Fire and Damnation"?

Bring It On!!!!! But on another new fresh thread!!!!!

Ken

Had to edit this several times for spelling.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:56 PM   #42
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im glad you had a nice time did you all have margrita chips and hot sause , if your ever in ausitn i would love to show you the good eats here in austin
there is a drink with tomato juise in a cold mug w/ a beer and some spice ,thats good and some real freash food all around town thier is Paloblos,Bouknos and Matts El Rancho
lots more too
any way now im hungry maybe some mexican rice and beans lol
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:59 PM   #43
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Been keepin an eye on this one

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Old 11-26-2006, 05:17 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lineCarrandMorgan
im glad you had a nice time did you all have margrita chips and hot sause , if your ever in ausitn i would love to show you the good eats here in austin
there is a drink with tomato juise in a cold mug w/ a beer and some spice ,thats good and some real freash food all around town thier is Paloblos,Bouknos and Matts El Rancho
lots more too
any way now im hungry maybe some mexican rice and beans lol
My sister lives in Round Rock. When I'm down that way, Matts is the place!!!!

We don't drink too much so we shaired a non booze margrita and didn't finish it. Oh well! I guess were not boozers!!!!! LOL!
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Old 11-26-2006, 05:25 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
My sister lives in Round Rock. When I'm down that way, Matts is the place!!!!

We don't drink too much so we shaired a non booze margrita and didn't finish it. Oh well! I guess were not boozers!!!!! LOL!
cool , what about south by south west in early march
alahandro escavada was here and the music is busting through the seems that is somthing to see, that great you have family here .
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Old 11-26-2006, 08:18 PM   #46
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I feel somewhat sorry for Grandson of Zeela. How sad that you have to judge people by their sexual orientation and not for who they are personally. To judge and condemn others in that matter is the true "sin". Hopefully, you'll learn to not continue with this type of bigotry.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lineCarrandMorgan
cool , what about south by south west in early march
alahandro escavada was here and the music is busting through the seems that is somthing to see, that great you have family here .
There is only 2 things I really like about Texas. One is my sis and her family and the other is hanging out on Lake Travis.

Never been there in early March.

Oops forgot one! That's Paul's Steak House in Dallas/Ft.Worth area.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfgirl
I feel somewhat sorry for Grandson of Zeela. How sad that you have to judge people by their sexual orientation and not for who they are personally. To judge and condemn others in that matter is the true "sin". Hopefully, you'll learn to not continue with this type of bigotry.
Gonna use a bit of religious text here.

To error is human. To forgive is devine. We all make mistakes. It's all in how you look at things. It's all in the ways you were taught. To some god is a being to be feared. To others god is a loving and wonderful being. It's all in how you were taught and believe in.

A lot of people don't know but the idea of one god (monotheisum) was practiced by many tribes long before good ole Chris Columbus rediscovered us. I'm sure even the two spirits back then had the same beliefs if in those tribes.
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Old 11-28-2006, 10:46 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfgirl
I feel somewhat sorry for Grandson of Zeela. How sad that you have to judge people by their sexual orientation and not for who they are personally. To judge and condemn others in that matter is the true "sin". Hopefully, you'll learn to not continue with this type of bigotry.
Wulfgirl,
I have a good friend that lost his father to AIDS, and yes he was bi-sexual. My friend did not hate his father he hated the fact that he lost his father to aids which was caused by homosexuality. He loved his father very much and talks about how great a man he was......

do you understand where I am coming from? hence, hate the sin !!

I just hope that everyone else can comprehend the issue at hand.....

God bless you all according to His will ...
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRANDSON OF ZEELA
Wulfgirl,
I have a good friend that lost his father to AIDS, and yes he was bi-sexual. My friend did not hate his father he hated the fact that he lost his father to aids which was caused by homosexuality. He loved his father very much and talks about how great a man he was......

do you understand where I am coming from? hence, hate the sin !!

I just hope that everyone else can comprehend the issue at hand.....

God bless you all according to His will ...
Actually I have to point out the homosexuality didn't cause AIDS but unprotected sex caused HIV which lead to AIDS. I know this may sound like a small thing but it is important to know the facts about HIV and AIDS.



Scotty
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:47 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRANDSON OF ZEELA
Wulfgirl,
I have a good friend that lost his father to AIDS, and yes he was bi-sexual. My friend did not hate his father he hated the fact that he lost his father to aids which was caused by homosexuality. He loved his father very much and talks about how great a man he was......

do you understand where I am coming from? hence, hate the sin !!

I just hope that everyone else can comprehend the issue at hand.....

God bless you all according to His will ...

I also have had a good friend that died of aids. The lifestyle he chose was of his own free will. He was a good person and did a lot for the community. Did he sin by having a same sex partner that loved him for who he was? These two were comitted to only each other for almost 15 years. Faithful to only each other. Was that sin?

In olden days the Romans had same sex lovers along with their regular mates. Did they sin? To them it was normal life as they knew it.

The sin is just your oponion from what you read from your bible book. That's how you were taught. To a two spirit, same sex sex is sometimes considered normal to their feelings. To them it may not be sin because it may be normal to them.

Just because you book says it is wrong, only means that it is wrong for you. Consider the feelings of others.

For you not considering the feelings of others, you may find you may have also sinned according to your bible book. Better take a good long look.
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Last edited by TKMJ Productions; 11-28-2006 at 11:50 PM..
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:17 AM   #52
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I agree with TK. One can read the Bible and interpret a passage one particular way. Another person can read the same passage and have a completely different spin on it. We were given free will by the Creator and with this knowledge, we can do positive or negative things with it. To me, there's no sin being in a sexual relationship with a man or woman, if one is gay or lesbian. It's not for me to condemn others who live this lifestyle if this is what they want to do. If I do that, then I'm a hypocrit and "sinner".
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:51 AM   #53
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With all due respect to all, is it possible to leave religion out of this topic? It seems like everytime this comes up, folks end up arguing Biblical semantics. Can we possibly consider leaving the Christian opinion out of it? I think the whole World knows where they stand on the subject....
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:21 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRANDSON OF ZEELA
Wulfgirl,
I have a good friend that lost his father to AIDS, and yes he was bi-sexual. My friend did not hate his father he hated the fact that he lost his father to aids which was caused by homosexuality. He loved his father very much and talks about how great a man he was......

do you understand where I am coming from? hence, hate the sin !!

I just hope that everyone else can comprehend the issue at hand.....

God bless you all according to His will ...
You do realize that the majoriity of new HIV/AIDS cases are amoungst heterosexuals right?

I think the reason the bigoted christian argument ticks be off so much (aside from being bigoted) is that it is generally uneducated. If your going to make an argument please be educated enough to make it acuratly.

Also, please realize that we all know way to well the christian opinion, we arn't interested, we've all heard it & the person who started this thread wanted an ndn perspective, probably cause the whole world already knows the christian perspective.
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:45 PM   #55
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Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
Let's keep religion out of this thread. That's not what were talking about. Were not talking "right or wrong" per the bible or any other religious book.

500 years ago, two spirits in our culture were no different then they are today except for the influances taught by other invading cultures. Those teachings were stuffed down us by oppression. It caused a lot of us to be just like the cultures that show intollerence to others. Remember they all came here and attemted to distroy our culture. (there still trying) We didn't invade them.

In the old days each member of the community had a place and job. Everyone worked together. It didn't matter who or what you were, you had a part.

Because of invading cultures, the two spirit people have been forced to go underground so to speak. Is that fair to them? Is that fair to us as well? For hundreds of years out two spirited people have been forced to hide because of invading cultures that were out to distroy them.

For all these years a part of our people and yes other cultures have been forced to hide. Look at all that a two spirit does for our culture. Look at all that was lost because of other cultures that have damaged ours.

Every person has a purpose in this life!

Read my signature and believe it!
You said it! Put into words exactly what I was thinking! Wow!
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:03 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4
You do realize that the majoriity of new HIV/AIDS cases are amoungst heterosexuals right?

I think the reason the bigoted christian argument ticks be off so much (aside from being bigoted) is that it is generally uneducated. If your going to make an argument please be educated enough to make it acuratly.

Also, please realize that we all know way to well the christian opinion, we arn't interested, we've all heard it & the person who started this thread wanted an ndn perspective, probably cause the whole world already knows the christian perspective.
Suzze
You're right, Suzze, I wanted the NDN perspective. I have had enough of the "christian" point of view, which is terribly hypocritical (which is why I stay away from churches and consider myself spirital). And the fact that I'm a lesbian and that 'homosexual sex' is the cause of HIV and AIDS makes my blood boil!!!
You do have a right to your opinion, but when it's uneducated and hateful, it's definetly not wanted or appreciated.
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:14 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuj510
With all due respect to all, is it possible to leave religion out of this topic? It seems like everytime this comes up, folks end up arguing Biblical semantics. Can we possibly consider leaving the Christian opinion out of it? I think the whole World knows where they stand on the subject....
That is exactly what I am trying to do. Moral issues were never discussed on this thread until this zella dude show ed up. I would like to keep the moral issues out of this one. If he wants to do a moral thing, he can take it and start another thread.

As of NOW, I will no longer try to convince him to keep the moral issues out. Nor will I reply to them debating the morality. Others may want to join me on this as well.

If he wants to do morals on this issue, then he should start a new thread

Ken
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by GRANDSON OF ZEELA
Wulfgirl,
I have a good friend that lost his father to AIDS, and yes he was bi-sexual. My friend did not hate his father he hated the fact that he lost his father to aids which was caused by homosexuality. He loved his father very much and talks about how great a man he was......

do you understand where I am coming from? hence, hate the sin !!

I just hope that everyone else can comprehend the issue at hand.....

God bless you all according to His will ...
Thank you for your good wishes, but I wouldn't feel right unless I pointed out the flaw in your logic.

Homosexuality doesn't cause AIDS. It doesn't even cause HIV. Having unprotected sex with a partner (of either sex) who has the HIV virus is the only thing that can lead to contracting HIV. HIV can cause failure in the immune system, which can lead to getting sick. Getting sick because of a depressed immune system is known as getting AIDS (Acquired Immuno Deficiency Syndrome)

Your friend's father didn't get AIDS because he was bisexual or homosexual. He got AIDS because he had unprotected sex with someone who was HIV+, contracted HIV himself and got sick. It may seem like hair-splitting, but it's important for everyone to be as informed as possible.

Now I will go back and read the rest of this thread, since I jumped into it in the middle
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Old 11-30-2006, 11:42 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by GRANDSON OF ZEELA
I believe that if you are homosexual then that's your right to live as you wish.....

But, there is a time and a place for everything.....
The "BUT", negates everything you said in the first statement.

Isn't it kinda like saying "I love men as long as they don't do anything manly."?

Homosexuality occurs in nature. There are gay monkeys, birds, mammals etc. About 10% of animal groups have a same- sex partnership. True they don't produce baby animals, but The Creator must have had some plan for them.

And I also take exception that you would assume we are all the same relgion as you. If that is your religion by choice and you choose to follow those rules, then that's up to you. But its not polite to force those rules on other people. There are other religions in this country/world that honor homosexuality. Different paths, same goal.
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Old 11-30-2006, 08:43 PM   #60
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nature

Quote:
Originally Posted by outershell
The "BUT", negates everything you said in the first statement.

Isn't it kinda like saying "I love men as long as they don't do anything manly."?

Homosexuality occurs in nature. There are gay monkeys, birds, mammals etc. About 10% of animal groups have a same- sex partnership. True they don't produce baby animals, but The Creator must have had some plan for them.

And I also take exception that you would assume we are all the same relgion as you. If that is your religion by choice and you choose to follow those rules, then that's up to you. But its not polite to force those rules on other people. There are other religions in this country/world that honor homosexuality. Different paths, same goal.
Right on outershell!
TKMJ-Thanks for bringing the thread back!

Allright, now.

I wondered if yall had heard of this story. Its not an exact paralell, its not about homosexuality in nature, but more about genetic rarieties that are related-did anyone hear about that doe in MN that was shot over last weekend? The hunter shot a buck, sure enough, but something was a bit different about this one:

MICHIGAN, N.D. -- When Carmen Erickson dropped a deer with a single shot in a cattail slough south of here, he thought he'd downed a nice buck. Unlike his shot, he was a little off. The deer was a doe.

"It's got no male utilities," said Erickson, who lives in Minot. "It has teats ... it was pretty unusual."

Six hunting partners with Erickson witnessed the doe with a 4-by-4 rack.

"I'm sure this story will be around for 10 years," he said. "At least in our group."

Erickson notified the state Game and Fish Department and received a voice mail from a biologist who said these types of deer often are bucks whose testicles haven't descended or for some reason are castrated. Erickson said that is not the case with his deer, however.

"We couldn't find any male genitals on the deer," he said.

"We turned it over, and I got a lot of heat over that. Like I was supposed to know," Erickson joked.

Gary Rankin, district game warden in Larimore, said he has seen a couple of antlered does over the years, but for a doe to have a well-developed rack is unusual.

It is not the first antlered doe to be reported in the region this year. A conservation officer for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources reported seeing a 10-point antlered doe shot near Robbin, Minn., during that state's firearms deer season. DNR conservation officers in other parts of Minnesota also reported a handful of antlered does.

Erickson said the antlered doe is a first for his crew, which has been hunting together for 25 years.

"It definitely was a keeper, he said.

There is a BBC documentary out there about gay animals but I forget its name
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