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Old 12-04-2006, 08:28 AM   #81
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Side Notes

Think about this:
Society has taught us two rolls female and male. Now look at our way of life in general.

In government in the States we have republican and democrat. There is also a minority in the middle that no one really accepts the "independant". We also have "right wing" and "left wing" What about the people in the middle who like some from both ends but will not commit to either side.

You can see where I am going with this. Now apply the two-spirit people to these type concepts as the "people in the middle". Society has taught us that there are only two sides.
The people in the middle are forced to pick a side or get pushed away because the won't commit to either side.

That is exactly what society has done to our two-spirit population. Pushed them aside because they won't pick the side where society expects them to be because of gender.
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:33 AM   #82
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Good morning Patrick
I see you up and well.

Have a great day!

Ken
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:03 AM   #83
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'mornin' Ken... working from home today. Being a human barometer sux, the drugs are good but it also means I can only work 3 out of every 5 hours :-P
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:28 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds
'mornin' Ken... working from home today. Being a human barometer sux, the drugs are good but it also means I can only work 3 out of every 5 hours :-P
Long day for me today. Up at 5:30AM to get things started. Now I'm taking a break on the boards to see what is happening. Later today the crew is headed out to setup to record an orchestra. Another live remote thing. We have a lot of setup work. The concert starts at 7:00pm and ends at 10:00PM. It will be a 74 track mixdown because every instrument is being tracked. We are not doing groups this time. It will be a mess of cables and a nightmare to sort them out after the show. The earilest we can get in the hall is noon to set up so it's going to be an interesting day. I'm hoping to be back home by 11:00 or so tonight. Gonna let the crew do the clean-up. We'll see what happens. It's just part of the business. Gotta roll with it.

Ken
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:13 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaCotau
I have actually read research that states the opposite. That there is absolutely no connection between male homosexuality and how high, or how low, a man's level of testosterone is. Besides, I have met several gay men that were very "manly" so to speak, you would never guess that they were gay without them telling you. Not all gay men are effeminate, just like not all lesbian women are "butch".
I hope you didn't think I mean that goes for ALL gay people, cuz that's not what I meant. And anyway, I read that article awhile ago, information may not be entirely correct, so don't quote me on that. I have, however, found some information that may or may not back up my 'theory'. Hope you all enjoy reading them.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/...ers/index.html

http://kdka.com/health/health_story_129001647.html

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600132649,00.html
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:33 PM   #86
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I think you are really on to something here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
Think about this:
Society has taught us two rolls female and male. Now look at our way of life in general.

In government in the States we have republican and democrat. There is also a minority in the middle that no one really accepts the "independant". We also have "right wing" and "left wing" What about the people in the middle who like some from both ends but will not commit to either side.

You can see where I am going with this. Now apply the two-spirit people to these type concepts as the "people in the middle". Society has taught us that there are only two sides.
The people in the middle are forced to pick a side or get pushed away because the won't commit to either side.

That is exactly what society has done to our two-spirit population. Pushed them aside because they won't pick the side where society expects them to be because of gender.
I think you are really on to something here. The western mind is taught to think in dichotomies (white/black, master/slave, NDN/non-NDN). And those of us who have experience being in-between in one way or another know the world is a much bigger place than that and we know the diversity of the human family is much wider in scope than most care to imagine. Traditionally, we Native people have always been good at being able to deal with and understand 2 or more seemingly opposing realities being true or not negating each other. That also happens to be a sign of genus according to the western standard of intelligence. How do you like them apples?!?
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Old 12-04-2006, 04:30 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowthunders mama
I think you are really on to something here. The western mind is taught to think in dichotomies (white/black, master/slave, NDN/non-NDN). And those of us who have experience being in-between in one way or another know the world is a much bigger place than that and we know the diversity of the human family is much wider in scope than most care to imagine. Traditionally, we Native people have always been good at being able to deal with and understand 2 or more seemingly opposing realities being true or not negating each other. That also happens to be a sign of genus according to the western standard of intelligence. How do you like them apples?!?
This is soooo true!!!!
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:09 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowthunders mama
I think you are really on to something here. The western mind is taught to think in dichotomies (white/black, master/slave, NDN/non-NDN). And those of us who have experience being in-between in one way or another know the world is a much bigger place than that and we know the diversity of the human family is much wider in scope than most care to imagine. Traditionally, we Native people have always been good at being able to deal with and understand 2 or more seemingly opposing realities being true or not negating each other. That also happens to be a sign of genus according to the western standard of intelligence. How do you like them apples?!?

It's 11:55PM and I'm back from the recording gig. It went well for everyone and I'm a bit tired so I'll make this quick.

What I said is a feeling that I have had for a long time. I try to notice how people treat each other in both good ways and bad. This is what an Elder of mine has asked me to do a long time ago. I still do this today. It has taught me how to treat people the same way I want to be treated by others. It's the only way I can be. It feels right to me.

As far as liking them apples? I will fill you in on a PM about them apples. There are two types of apple in my book. One that is grown on a tree and eaten. The other like I said, I will PM you because they do not need to be discussed on this thread.

Good Night All,

Ken

Ken
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:48 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions

As far as liking them apples? I will fill you in on a PM about them apples. There are two types of apple in my book. One that is grown on a tree and eaten. The other like I said, I will PM you because they do not need to be discussed on this thread.

Good Night All,

Ken

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Huh?? Well, I guess that ain't my business!!
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:52 AM   #90
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Love is never wrong

I've never replied to one of these posts before but i felt compelled to respond to this one. I am a female that is currently in a long term relationship with a female. I have been in relationships with men and have been married before. I don't have an affiliation one way or another, does this make me bisexual? I don't know. I just believe that when u meet that special someone then that's it. It doesn't matter if your partner is male or female. I believe that love is never wrong. Love is love and that's all there is to it. A lot of people think that it's all about sex. Maybe because that's what they base their own relationships on, i'm not sure. But i do know that i truly love who i'm with and i truly believe that she was sent to me by God. I guess what it boils down to is this.........be happy within yourself.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:54 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by allonetribe
I've never replied to one of these posts before but i felt compelled to respond to this one. I am a female that is currently in a long term relationship with a female. I have been in relationships with men and have been married before. I don't have an affiliation one way or another, does this make me bisexual? I don't know. I just believe that when u meet that special someone then that's it. It doesn't matter if your partner is male or female. I believe that love is never wrong. Love is love and that's all there is to it. A lot of people think that it's all about sex. Maybe because that's what they base their own relationships on, i'm not sure. But i do know that i truly love who i'm with and i truly believe that she was sent to me by God. I guess what it boils down to is this.........be happy within yourself.
You hit it right on the head...it is about love and as long as you're happy, that's all that matters. I wouldn't even pressure yourself about trying to 'label' your sexuality. You are what you are and as trying to find out who you are-that will come in time. Right now, you just need to live your life the best way you can.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:41 AM   #92
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:13 PM   #93
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Fact of nature

I do understand that we are talking about two-spirit people. But lets look at another thing of nature. Look at the evergreen type tree. There are years where some of these types of trees take on a male form and sometimes a female form to pollinate so the tree survives. Survival is the most basic instinct of any plant or animal. Did you know that sometimes the pine take on both rolls being both male and female on the same tree? Wow!!!! a two-spirit tree!!!! How come no one questions this tree as we do two-spirit people?

What about the flowers????? Think about it!

Ken
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:32 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuj510
Are there resources for Two Spirit folks in your communities?

Do they participate in our dances and other social traditions?

Just wondered....
We have a few two-spirit people in our community. Some dance others don't. I guess it all depends on how one feels that day just like anyone else.

As far as resources, I assume you are talking about normal services such as medical and mental health? Then yes there are just as you or I would go see a doctor. As far as native two-spirit resources as in native life? I'm really not sure if there is a place at the NDN center that specifically caters to the two-spirit. I've never known anywhere of a special place for a two-spirit to go in our community.

Just like any other community, some people accept the two-spirit and others reject them. I guess it all depends on YOU!
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Old 12-09-2006, 09:54 PM   #95
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Got me some bad rep points I'm Honored!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
Before I posted last night, my wife and I went out to see a good friend performing music at a Tex-Mex restuarunt and bar. The food was OK and a bit over priced but the music and company we kept was great so we didn't mind too much about the over spending. We were home by 11:45. Our first night out alone without the kids in years. Call it a "HOT DATE"! We had fun.

Then I saw the bible slinging on the thread. "Now wait a sec here" I said to myself and posted my reply to the bible slinging.

I felt it was fair to say what I said because I feel the bible slinging isn't fair here because we are talking about what we think of the subject from a non-religious view. There was never a question of morals here. There was no right or wrong. It was all personal viewpoints without religious content.

So If you want to sling the bible over this issue then let's take it to another thread. I'll sling that book with you over the subject. And yes I can do it! I have had much study in the bible in many forms. For every chapter and verse you can sling, I can sling the counter part. Now where would the subject get us? Nowhere! Because for every verse, there is at least one counter verse showing that you are wrong. I can take the bible and make it say anything I want it to say just as any one else can.

Anyone want to play "Fire and Damnation"?

Bring It On!!!!! But on another new fresh thread!!!!!

Ken

Had to edit this several times for spelling.
To the person who gave me the bad rep points,

Thanks!!!!!

I will now post the comment.

[SIZE=2]*sigh* not for the slinging comment, but you thoughs are not well articulated[/SIZE]

I never said I was a scholar or anything. Sorry dude, but I have my good days and bad just like everyone else.

I guess when you get a night out with your wife after so many years of taking care of business, kids and others responsibilities, the enjoyment of the moment may make you a little foggy the next morning. And no I didn't drink a drop or take any drugs. I never knew that we are graded on spelling, diction, or creative writing here. If we do, I expect quartly grading and progress reports. How about a pw.com diploma at the end of the year. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:20 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
Think about this:
Society has taught us two rolls female and male. Now look at our way of life in general.

In government in the States we have republican and democrat. There is also a minority in the middle that no one really accepts the "independant". We also have "right wing" and "left wing" What about the people in the middle who like some from both ends but will not commit to either side.

You can see where I am going with this. Now apply the two-spirit people to these type concepts as the "people in the middle". Society has taught us that there are only two sides.
The people in the middle are forced to pick a side or get pushed away because the won't commit to either side.

That is exactly what society has done to our two-spirit population. Pushed them aside because they won't pick the side where society expects them to be because of gender.

I really like your thoughts and ideas on this.. as I had a 2 spirited Brother... I loved hijm with ALL my heart and he wasnt a freak of nature.. He was So special whereever he went he was loved.. thankyou.. for your words..
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Old 12-10-2006, 08:51 AM   #97
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Quote:
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I really like your thoughts and ideas on this.. as I had a 2 spirited Brother... I loved hijm with ALL my heart and he wasnt a freak of nature.. He was So special whereever he went he was loved.. thankyou.. for your words..

Thanks!!!!! I feel everyone should be treated fairly and honestly. But don't take advantage or dodo happens. I say dodo happens because it is now Sunday. Ther rest of the week, popo happens.

Be fair and honest with me and I'll do the same with you.

Gonna go bowling with my family this morning.

See ya!!!!!
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:09 AM   #98
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To the person who gave me the bad rep points,

Thanks!!!!!

I will now post the comment.

[SIZE=2]*sigh* not for the slinging comment, but you thoughs are not well articulated[/SIZE]

I never said I was a scholar or anything. Sorry dude, but I have my good days and bad just like everyone else.

I guess when you get a night out with your wife after so many years of taking care of business, kids and others responsibilities, the enjoyment of the moment may make you a little foggy the next morning. And no I didn't drink a drop or take any drugs. I never knew that we are graded on spelling, diction, or creative writing here. If we do, I expect quartly grading and progress reports. How about a pw.com diploma at the end of the year. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to ask a completely unrelated question. TKMJ, what does a bad rep point look like? Sorry to be a dunce and off topic here but I am really curious. Someone gave me a point that is grey (not green like the others) and I was suspicious of that one but I did not know what it meant. I am still fairly new to pw so sometimes I need clarification on things. My apologies to everyone for interrupting the topic flow.
TKMJ, I think that stinks about the bad rep point for you. Some people just like to nit pick about everything!
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:50 AM   #99
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I have to ask a completely unrelated question. TKMJ, what does a bad rep point look like? Sorry to be a dunce and off topic here but I am really curious. Someone gave me a point that is grey (not green like the others) and I was suspicious of that one but I did not know what it meant. I am still fairly new to pw so sometimes I need clarification on things. My apologies to everyone for interrupting the topic flow.
TKMJ, I think that stinks about the bad rep point for you. Some people just like to nit pick about everything!
Yeah, I want to know, too!! I didn't even know you could get bad rep points here!!
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:53 AM   #100
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Quote:
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I have to ask a completely unrelated question. TKMJ, what does a bad rep point look like? Sorry to be a dunce and off topic here but I am really curious. Someone gave me a point that is grey (not green like the others) and I was suspicious of that one but I did not know what it meant. I am still fairly new to pw so sometimes I need clarification on things. My apologies to everyone for interrupting the topic flow.
TKMJ, I think that stinks about the bad rep point for you. Some people just like to nit pick about everything!
My understanding is that the "gray" ones are given by people who haven't gotten enough green ones to give any points away yet.

The "bad" rep are red.
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