[HistoryStudent]

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[Joe's Dad]

I think you are right about this being a good place to start. You've done much research, and you've come to the conclusion there are three (3) Saponi tribes which are frauds. As a matter of fact, why don't you take your findings to the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. I'm sure they would want to know the recognized, or 'undocumented', Saponi tribes of North Carolina tribes are frauds. As a matter of fact, if you send me your name and so forth, I can almost guarantee you a personal meeting with the Executive Director of the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs.

Have I mentioned Greg is a member of the Haliwa Saponi tribe of North Carolina?

PM me your personal information and I will forward it to the commission. I'm sure they will be eager to hear, read and study your findings.

[HistoryStudent]

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[HistoryStudent]

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[HistoryStudent]

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[Joe's Dad]

Thank you for the PM. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. If I didn't, then let me apologize. First, I am neither Saponi, nor a historian. I am not here to refute your findings. However, if you would search this site, you will find that this subject has been discussed previously on this board. Mainly, it was done, by people who had no direct connection to any of the recognized tribes of North Carolina, South Carolina or Virginia. They used the same findings as you have provided, used the same argument you have, and still cannot get enrolled in any state recognized tribe. They have even gone as far as trying to start their own Saponi tribe...to no avail. It's like they are a people without a home. If you delve further into the history records, you will find many who changed their identity to be either black...or white. Now, they want to become Saponi again. History says they should go talk to the ones who sold out.

Maybe those who want to claim Saponi should go talk to the likes of the late W.R. Richarson's family, the late Mr. Camp Goins family and the late Mr Cliff Freeman and the late Mr. Rossie Freeman's families. Now that is real history.

The words you see quoted in my signature were said to me many years ago by Mr. Rossie as we sat under the trees in his yard. He gave me history lessons not found in books. I'm positive those that have gone on before us, gave history lessons to their families. Else...how could there be a North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs that recognize Saponi tribes within that great state?

Again, I make the offer. Send me your personal information and I will forward it to my good friend, Mr Greg Richardson, a registered Haliwa Saponi, at the NCCIA.

[HistoryStudent]

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[HistoryStudent]

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[HistoryStudent]

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[Joe's Dad]

Originally Posted by HistoryStudent

::They used the same findings as you have provided, used the same argument you have, and still cannot get enrolled in any state recognized tribe. They have even gone as far as trying to start their own Saponi tribe...to no avail. It's like they are a people without a home. If you delve further into the history records, you will find many who changed their identity to be either black...or white. Now, they want to become Saponi again. History says they should go talk to the ones who sold out. ::

This is actually my point.


:: Now, they want to become Saponi again. History says they should go talk to the ones who sold out.::

That is actually those three groups in NC that now call themself Saponi. I provided proof of that. After they heard the collins being called Saponi in 1978 they instantly a year later wanted to add it to their name. Yet they do not want to enroll any of the people that was recognized as Saponi before them. These Austins, Collins, Erwins, etc have been using the saponi label before that 1978 Document. I mean that 1978 article and the 1979 name changing by the Haliwa is too close to be a thing that just happen. The Haliwa, Occaneechi, and Person county indians are all included in that same document. The Robert K Thomas' Cherokee communities of the south is available online.



::Again, I make the offer. Send me your personal information and I will forward it to my good friend, Mr Greg Richardson, a registered Haliwa Saponi, at the NCCIA. ::

I'm not really sure what you want me to send. I included various quotes with sources. I'm not saying the three groups are frauds because they could have some saponi mixture somewhere along the line but I could not find anything naming them Saponi or showing where they was listed directly with Saponi. It is just very confusing and the point of me trying to get a discussion here as to why they named themself Saponi after these other families was already recognized as Saponi in NC just they never established a tribe dude to my understanding that they did not want to reclaim land or seek government money they just wanted to share their knowledge with other Saponi and create a unity among all the Saponi heirs that was more important to them and eaiser than starting their own group. They did not want to be labeled as people who sought money and land when there is others that needed it more than them so they never sought establishing a actual "tribe". However when they started seeing some other groups had started using a name they had already been known for they eventually tried to make contact with them only to find these three groups apprently did not seek the same unity idea they carried. Several of these documented Saponi have said they felt disrespected and wronged by those three groups which is a oppinion but none the less. I've looked at this and I'm real confussed about it makes no sense why these people are denied. I mean would it not look better from their self since they have no solid proof of Saponi descent to include these other families who do have documentation? It just brings further confussion. You got three groups who have their tribes established yet no solid documentation....got this other group of people with no tribe established yet got the solid documentation...put the 2 together and you have something strong...one group gets their unity and the other group gets documentation to back themself up. My posting was not to say fraud or anything...just confussion. It was just to see if anyone else knew more about what was going on...nothing big just a discussion is all.

This will probably be the last time I respond to this subject. I state again...I am neither Saponi or a historian.

Send me your name, telephone number, address, name of firstborn..blah, blah, blah. All that writing means nothing to me. You may get one or two other people to post their opinion on here.

Send me your information and I will forward your information to the commission.