Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues We are Chiefs We are Chiefs

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-24-2012, 07:44 PM   #21
Unregistered Cherokee
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Unregistered Cheroke is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3
Credits: 117.17
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
Anti-capitalist and consumerist to the point that they buy Fender guiatrs, Marshall amps and all the recording equipment and software to make their music and drive their brand named van to gigs and get paid for it.... Funny. Makes them even more "hipplets".
Ahh...
/
/
/
/
Yeah... I have a problem with that, too, and even now, I'm questioning my own involvement with that. I unsubscribed from both of my drumming magazines that I get in the mail because I am put off by exactly what you stated about their lifestyle and the increasingly Christian views I'm seeing from the Jazz Snobs, and I have found a way out of western music, but I'm just now learning it.

I might even go so far as to ask, "What moral right does the United States of America have to exist, since it was based on theft of everything from the Native Americans?" I'm considering opening another thread about money that discusses the very weak link in the white world and what this might mean for Natives trying to reclaim the continent once a president signs the same document that Gorbachev signed, ending the USSR. It brings up all kinds of questions about the survival of "former federally-recognized tribes" - do they then become "state-recognized tribes," or is it everyone for themselves when American rule of law no longer exist at the federal level?

But, please keep in mind that these bandmates might be willing to support the Native American cause once they realize it's over and the opportunity arises to end it and return us back to a sane, sustainable way of life.

If ANYTHING, all whites need to be taught the native ways of living in order to prevent the possibility of us losing Earth entirely and ending up like Mars or the moon. Things wouldn't be so bad if whites had never lost their European Tribal ways and stayed close to home.

this is what we are faced with, RIGHT NOW. Perhaps, I should consider some sort of "Native European" program to help them deculturate as modern Christians and revert back to pre-Christian Tribal ways, hopefully with some modifications.
Unregistered Cheroke is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-25-2012, 03:17 PM   #22
Banned
 
Items Tree
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: in constant conflict with myself
Posts: 493
Credits: 13,536.73
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered Cheroke View Post
Ahh...
/
/
/
/
Yeah... I have a problem with that, too, and even now, I'm questioning my own involvement with that. I unsubscribed from both of my drumming magazines that I get in the mail because I am put off by exactly what you stated about their lifestyle and the increasingly Christian views I'm seeing from the Jazz Snobs, and I have found a way out of western music, but I'm just now learning it.

I might even go so far as to ask, "What moral right does the United States of America have to exist, since it was based on theft of everything from the Native Americans?" I'm considering opening another thread about money that discusses the very weak link in the white world and what this might mean for Natives trying to reclaim the continent once a president signs the same document that Gorbachev signed, ending the USSR. It brings up all kinds of questions about the survival of "former federally-recognized tribes" - do they then become "state-recognized tribes," or is it everyone for themselves when American rule of law no longer exist at the federal level?

But, please keep in mind that these band mates might be willing to support the Native American cause once they realize it's over and the opportunity arises to end it and return us back to a sane, sustainable way of life.

If ANYTHING, all whites need to be taught the native ways of living in order to prevent the possibility of us losing Earth entirely and ending up like Mars or the moon. Things wouldn't be so bad if whites had never lost their European Tribal ways and stayed close to home.

this is what we are faced with, RIGHT NOW. Perhaps, I should consider some sort of "Native European" program to help them deculturate as modern Christians and revert back to pre-Christian Tribal ways, hopefully with some modifications.

Pardon me for saying so but this just sounds very unrealistic. If and when the US, looses power it will not be to return properties, rights, etc back to the Natives, but it will instead, lose power to the Global level of authority, ie: UN, and/or EU. To think any other way is just delusional.

the problem with people spitting complaints about another religion is first and foremost, childish and chicken, the second is it is usually tainted by bitterness and bias, or just plain ignorance. I would venture to ask, would you be put off if your drumm magazines were to promote the increasingly neo-pagan, or Wiccan lifestyle and views within it's pages? I have come to find that so many a folk complain about Christians and Christianinty on this site, with the same ignorance of it, as those who puke up the romanticized Hollywood trash about Native life and ways and customs. And I'm sure from someone on here, I will hear, "Well, I used to be a Christian, but ..." Sorry if you left the Christ of Christianity in the church you left, you weren't a Christian in the first place. Your parents may have made you go, but that don't make you a Christian, anymore than a relative 7 generations back with a trace of Native blood, makes you an NDN.

Just my opinon, ...and I guess, "Game on."
rezrazed is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-25-2012, 05:34 PM   #23
Unregistered Cherokee
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
deafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scale
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11
Credits: 304.01
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezrazed View Post
Pardon me for saying so but this just sounds very unrealistic.

Fine... Just watch... Hopefully, we won't live to see the horrors coming to us.

Yes, I would have similar issues if other beliefs had taken power in alternate universes with the same consequences of war, pestilence, and diseases. However, Christianity takes the cake in the abuses that have occurred in the 2000 years. Native Americans are just among some of the more recent victims of it in its push to make this world a Christian world. Tribal Europeans were its victims 1,000-1,500 years before. The trouble I have is, people on the street come to me to try to convert me, saying "Well, the bible says..." NOBODY ELSE does this in my area. It is ALWAYS a Christian of some sort. AND, I was told by somebody in my company, which is in my store a Christian stronghold, a place where a lot of people are hired through references at church. This lady is from California, so when she first came to work with us, she was questioned about her long-term relationship with her boyfriend, like, "Why aren't you married?" She'd never really had someone question her back in California. I've never had a muslim, a hindu, or some other person ask me that. She recognizes that people here in Texas are more traditional as Christians, and they are very pushy about it. Fortunately for her, she has gotten a promotion that takes her back to California. I've had another coworker do the same thing to me, only we were discussing something very personal. She said, "I'd like you to come to our church, just to see the community of love. Just see what we do there." She REALLY tried to sneak her way in, and IMMEDIATELY, my guard went up. She has not talked to me in email since... People of other faiths, or non-Christians, are much better behaved than this, at least on the surface, BECAUSE they understand what people who push religion look like to them and how it makes them feel.

You need to read more carefully what I wrote, and I'll explain more carefully in the future. I first lived in a household where my Mom did not push me to be Christian once they realized I wasn't getting it (before they found out I was deaf). After my parents found out, it was "hands off" with me. Mom and Dad never did try to push me, even as Mom took me to church on the weekends she visited me. She was originally Quaker and really questioning her beliefs when I was 9-13 years old, so one year, she was Prebyterian, another year, she tried Catholicism until she heard the claim from a priest that "We are all such bad people, we don't deserve anything." Mom let a lot of that go in the last 20 years of her life and became content in life once she stopped questioning things, trying to make religion so important, and just accepted herself as a human being. Mom may have reverted back to Quaker in the days before she died, but she didn't say anything and didn't indicate that she was about to go (died the day after I talked to her over the phone), so I don't know that for a fact.

And in case you you think I have Hollywood visions of Native Americans, I'll set you straight. I've read that when the whites came here, NAs were found to be warring with each other, as you would have found in Tribal Europe before the Roman conquests came about. There were things that Cherokees had supposedly done to prisoners of war. I have to accept that there are things that I don't like about what they did to some people or some aspects of the traditional, pre-Contact beliefs, but those are the facts, and I have to accept that. The good with the bad. To live closer to the earth is hard, as you don't have AC, you don't have credit to buy tools you don't have, etc., so it's not pastoral and easy like people have it today.
deafdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-26-2012, 12:44 PM   #24
Unregistered Cherokee
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
deafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scale
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11
Credits: 304.01
Savings: 0.00
Ban Lubaha if this person doesn't stop. Looks like a spammer.
deafdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-26-2012, 02:00 PM   #25
Agent of Chaos
 
RestlessN8iv's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond repute
RestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 476
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 10,230.60
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Fine... Just watch... Hopefully, we won't live to see the horrors coming to us.

Yes, I would have similar issues if other beliefs had taken power in alternate universes with the same consequences of war, pestilence, and diseases. However, Christianity takes the cake in the abuses that have occurred in the 2000 years. Native Americans are just among some of the more recent victims of it in its push to make this world a Christian world. Tribal Europeans were its victims 1,000-1,500 years before. The trouble I have is, people on the street come to me to try to convert me, saying "Well, the bible says..." NOBODY ELSE does this in my area. It is ALWAYS a Christian of some sort. AND, I was told by somebody in my company, which is in my store a Christian stronghold, a place where a lot of people are hired through references at church. This lady is from California, so when she first came to work with us, she was questioned about her long-term relationship with her boyfriend, like, "Why aren't you married?" She'd never really had someone question her back in California. I've never had a muslim, a hindu, or some other person ask me that. She recognizes that people here in Texas are more traditional as Christians, and they are very pushy about it. Fortunately for her, she has gotten a promotion that takes her back to California. I've had another coworker do the same thing to me, only we were discussing something very personal. She said, "I'd like you to come to our church, just to see the community of love. Just see what we do there." She REALLY tried to sneak her way in, and IMMEDIATELY, my guard went up. She has not talked to me in email since... People of other faiths, or non-Christians, are much better behaved than this, at least on the surface, BECAUSE they understand what people who push religion look like to them and how it makes them feel.

You need to read more carefully what I wrote, and I'll explain more carefully in the future. I first lived in a household where my Mom did not push me to be Christian once they realized I wasn't getting it (before they found out I was deaf). After my parents found out, it was "hands off" with me. Mom and Dad never did try to push me, even as Mom took me to church on the weekends she visited me. She was originally Quaker and really questioning her beliefs when I was 9-13 years old, so one year, she was Prebyterian, another year, she tried Catholicism until she heard the claim from a priest that "We are all such bad people, we don't deserve anything." Mom let a lot of that go in the last 20 years of her life and became content in life once she stopped questioning things, trying to make religion so important, and just accepted herself as a human being. Mom may have reverted back to Quaker in the days before she died, but she didn't say anything and didn't indicate that she was about to go (died the day after I talked to her over the phone), so I don't know that for a fact.

And in case you you think I have Hollywood visions of Native Americans, I'll set you straight. I've read that when the whites came here, NAs were found to be warring with each other, as you would have found in Tribal Europe before the Roman conquests came about. There were things that Cherokees had supposedly done to prisoners of war. I have to accept that there are things that I don't like about what they did to some people or some aspects of the traditional, pre-Contact beliefs, but those are the facts, and I have to accept that. The good with the bad. To live closer to the earth is hard, as you don't have AC, you don't have credit to buy tools you don't have, etc., so it's not pastoral and easy like people have it today.
First of all this conversation will go nowhere so long as Christians, and Natives and any othergroup for that matter are being lumped into generic piles. I know, stereotypes are a fun and easy shortcut to thinking, but nothing healthy will come of it.

Christianity is not bad in and of itself. Like most things in this wold it is dangerous in the wrong hands.

An easy mistake to make is to assume that because the most obnoxious Christians are the loudest, they must speak for all Christians. This simply is not true. There are many mild mannered Christians who don't spend every waking hour thinking "convert teh heathans" or "OMG the gays!" They are simply harder to spot as unlike their obnoxious counterparts these people have the decency to not jam their religion down your throat. It also doesnt help that few news outlets want soundbites from sane Chrostians, they want the foaming-at-the-mouth "you're going to Hell" Christian,that's what gets people's attention. Every group has its obnoxious members be it a religion, political party, vegitarians, or Twilight fans it is important not to judge the rest by the actions or words of a few.

The same can be said of atrocities carried out in the name of God. Similar horrors have been carried out in the name of many gods, political views, science, and lets not forget the old favorote. " for your own good." Christianity is no exception.

Incidentally these crimes against humanity usually begin with an over simplistic view of a group of people coupled with a "us good, them bad" style of thinking. Lables are a very effective means of calling people to arms for all of the wrong reasons. When you lable someone you no longer see them as people with thoughts feelings hopes and fears. They instead become "them".

That's what angered me about the band in question. How many Indians do they know? What makes them think we can all be lumped together in the same category? A good trip around these forums should be enough to tell anyone we don't all agree on everything, but I'm guessing they've never visited this site. I'm guessing they know only what they've seen on television. And I'm guessing that's what makes them think they can "speak for the Indian".
__________________
"Don't trust anyone who isn't angry."
- John Trudell

"Don't trust anyone who isn't hungry."
- Me
RestlessN8iv is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-26-2012, 02:19 PM   #26
Agent of Chaos
 
RestlessN8iv's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond repute
RestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond reputeRestlessN8iv has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 476
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 10,230.60
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Ban Lubaha if this person doesn't stop. Looks like a spammer.
__________________
"Don't trust anyone who isn't angry."
- John Trudell

"Don't trust anyone who isn't hungry."
- Me
RestlessN8iv is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 10:30 AM   #27
Banned
 
Items Tree
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: in constant conflict with myself
Posts: 493
Credits: 13,536.73
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Fine... Just watch... Hopefully, we won't live to see the horrors coming to us.
I've watched it my entire life, and still see it now, why do I need to wait?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Yes, I would have similar issues if other beliefs had taken power in alternate universes with the same consequences of war, pestilence, and diseases.
That wasn't the question, go back and read it again please. And ...Alternate Universe? PLEASE don't tell me you are gonna starting spitting out words like Illuminati, Synergy and paradigm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
However, Christianity takes the cake in the abuses that have occurred in the 2000 years. Native Americans are just among some of the more recent victims of it in its push to make this world a Christian world.
Actually to be more accurate in your accusation you might want to say Catholicism, as I am sure you are referring to the Crusades as you #1 of "christian" massacres, which by the way, history and time should reveal to an unbiased mind, happened in the years:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272

Protestantism started in 1517 with the posting of Luther's 95 theses.

If you are referring to the fact that more wars have been fought or started in the "name of god" true! but I would hardly call those folks Christian. I mean, is Hilter really a good example of Christ? Did he REALLY love his brother? I think not. So again, your thought and elementary diatribe is misinformed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Tribal Europeans were its victims 1,000-1,500 years before. The trouble I have is, people on the street come to me to try to convert me, saying "Well, the bible says..." NOBODY ELSE does this in my area. It is ALWAYS a Christian of some sort. AND, I was told by somebody in my company, which is in my store a Christian stronghold, a place where a lot of people are hired through references at church. This lady is from California, so when she first came to work with us, she was questioned about her long-term relationship with her boyfriend, like, "Why aren't you married?" She'd never really had someone question her back in California. I've never had a muslim, a hindu, or some other person ask me that. She recognizes that people here in Texas are more traditional as Christians, and they are very pushy about it. Fortunately for her, she has gotten a promotion that takes her back to California. I've had another coworker do the same thing to me, only we were discussing something very personal. She said, "I'd like you to come to our church, just to see the community of love. Just see what we do there." She REALLY tried to sneak her way in, and IMMEDIATELY, my guard went up. She has not talked to me in email since... People of other faiths, or non-Christians, are much better behaved than this, at least on the surface, BECAUSE they understand what people who push religion look like to them and how it makes them feel.
So then I ask are all NDN's drunk, wife beating, deadbeat lowlifes because one might be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
You need to read more carefully what I wrote, and I'll explain more carefully in the future. I first lived in a household where my Mom did not push me to be Christian once they realized I wasn't getting it (before they found out I was deaf). After my parents found out, it was "hands off" with me. Mom and Dad never did try to push me, even as Mom took me to church on the weekends she visited me. She was originally Quaker and really questioning her beliefs when I was 9-13 years old, so one year, she was Prebyterian, another year, she tried Catholicism until she heard the claim from a priest that "We are all such bad people, we don't deserve anything." Mom let a lot of that go in the last 20 years of her life and became content in life once she stopped questioning things, trying to make religion so important, and just accepted herself as a human being. Mom may have reverted back to Quaker in the days before she died, but she didn't say anything and didn't indicate that she was about to go (died the day after I talked to her over the phone), so I don't know that for a fact.
I heard you just fine, as did everyone who read this, and I didn't make my response difficult to understand, I said what I said, and I meant it, if you want to personalize it, that is up to you. You have that right. If you want to reflect on it and see how much of it is true, (though not directed at you specifically, but to people in general) that is up to you as well. As far as your mother, that is not mine to comment on, that is apparently a cross your mother had to bare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
And in case you you think I have Hollywood visions of Native Americans, I'll set you straight. I've read that when the whites came here, NAs were found to be warring with each other, as you would have found in Tribal Europe before the Roman conquests came about. There were things that Cherokees had supposedly done to prisoners of war. I have to accept that there are things that I don't like about what they did to some people or some aspects of the traditional, pre-Contact beliefs, but those are the facts, and I have to accept that. The good with the bad. To live closer to the earth is hard, as you don't have AC, you don't have credit to buy tools you don't have, etc., so it's not pastoral and easy like people have it today.
What? This last statement in itself, shows your ignorance on this matter.

And? Exactly what do you mean "You need to read more carefully what I wrote" This is your only post on this thread, Or are you saying that your original post in this thread is under the name Unregistered Cherokee?

We're done here!

Last edited by rezrazed; 05-29-2012 at 10:39 AM.. Reason: typing fast than I can proof read.
rezrazed is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 10:54 AM   #28
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,023
Credits: 95,125.86
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezrazed View Post
...
That wasn't the question, go back and read it again please. And ...Alternate Universe? PLEASE don't tell me you are gonna starting spitting out words like Illuminati, Synergy and paradigm?
...
Maybe he is talking about the theory in theoretical physics of parallel universes (multiverse)... LOL.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #29
Banned
 
Items Tree
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: in constant conflict with myself
Posts: 493
Credits: 13,536.73
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
Maybe he is talking about the theory in theoretical physics of parallel universes (multiverse)... LOL.
So there might be more than one of me out there. (shutter) what a revolting thought. lol
So I'd be like Jet Le in "the One?" COOL!
rezrazed is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #30
Unregistered Cherokee
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
deafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scale
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11
Credits: 304.01
Savings: 0.00
I changed users because I realized I screwed up on the login name, and I would not remember to login incorrectly, so I asked one of the web masters to delete the first account so I don't get double email notifications.

As for the history you quoted, I assumed you knew that.

"So then I ask are all NDN's drunk, wife beating, deadbeat lowlifes because one might be?" I don't know where you got that idea. Of course, I know that not all Christians are like that, but they do make the ones who really mind their own business look back. They make my cousins and Aunt/Uncle look bad because they respect my need to be a cavewoman in my own way and have not tried to say, "You have to go to church. You're going to hell if you don't!!" They realize that everyone comes into their worlds as social beings from their own origins, of where they were in the early part of life.

"Maybe he is talking about the theory in theoretical physics of parallel universes (multiverse)... LOL." I have NO idea if that's possible, and I hope not. Imagine being about to commit a crime, and then jumping from one universe to another to escape punishment.

"That wasn't the question, go back and read it again please. And ...Alternate Universe? PLEASE don't tell me you are gonna starting spitting out words like Illuminati, Synergy and paradigm?"

That WAS the question, because if wiccannism had the same history of crusades and killing and wiping out cultures, I would have issues with it. Of allying yourself with a culture that has a bloody history. The fact is, Christianity is continuing to spread, wiping out unique cultures and at the least, altering them to the point that my ancestors had largely forgotten their pre-Contact ways by 1880. One of the reasons we know as much as we do about the Cherokees is because it was written down somewhere, along with people who hid out and continued as much of the pre-Contact traditions as they could. If you read this book here, you'll see what had happened to the Cherokees.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Uwg...0-1838&f=false

Click on the left arrow repeatedly above the yellow bar to start from the very beginning.

"If you are referring to the fact that more wars have been fought or started in the "name of god" true! but I would hardly call those folks Christian. I mean, is Hilter really a good example of Christ? Did he REALLY love his brother? I think not." So, the question becomes, "Who is really the Christian in this hypothetical group of 1,000 people standing around me, say at 11:30 on February 23, 2012?" Is it those who say that LGBT is an abomination of people who should not exist, or is it those who say that these people are an intentional creation of the Apportioner, along with everyone else?" I think the Christian that is in power of a particular sect, denomination, or splinter group is one who belongs to the largest group of Christians that think alike. Look at what happened when the Puritan Parliament came to power - Christmas was banned, and in Colonial America, Christmas was banned by similar people in 1659. If you brought a Puritan from the past and brought him here to observe what happens at Christmas time, explain the technology, and then asked him, "Do you believe these people are true Christians?" He would probably say no. The question I have is, is there a record of particular Christian denominations having changed position on various things 200-400 years apart? One of these is the inclusion of openly LGBT people in the congregations today. If you went back in time and asked them 300 years ago (if the denomination was in existence by then), would they have accepted LGBT people? If not, would that mean if the people from 300 years ago were brought to the future of the church they were in, would they then kick out the current Christians for supporting LGBT rights? Does that mean in the eyes of centuries ago, today's people are not Christians?

What I see happening is that there is this sometimes imperceptible, gradual change in what makes a Christian a Christian, and it appears to be weakening in places, little by little.
deafdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 02:05 PM   #31
Sg̱aaga g̱uu hla.
 
yaahl's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 2,790
Credits: 42,587.55
Savings: 0.00
Ok folks, please try and respect that there are many people on here that practise organized religion or have belief systems that are not straight out of a book. The next post that takes a shot at any religion without authorities, citations or references will get this thread locked up. We clear?

Deaf Drummer, you have been placed on moderated posting which means all your posts will be moderated by me for a while. This is a precaution to prevent spammers/trolls from getting multiple accounts going.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
I changed users because I realized I screwed up on the login name, and I would not remember to login incorrectly, so I asked one of the web masters to delete the first account so I don't get double email notifications.

As for the history you quoted, I assumed you knew that.

"So then I ask are all NDN's drunk, wife beating, deadbeat lowlifes because one might be?" I don't know where you got that idea. Of course, I know that not all Christians are like that, but they do make the ones who really mind their own business look back. They make my cousins and Aunt/Uncle look bad because they respect my need to be a cavewoman in my own way and have not tried to say, "You have to go to church. You're going to hell if you don't!!" They realize that everyone comes into their worlds as social beings from their own origins, of where they were in the early part of life.

"Maybe he is talking about the theory in theoretical physics of parallel universes (multiverse)... LOL." I have NO idea if that's possible, and I hope not. Imagine being about to commit a crime, and then jumping from one universe to another to escape punishment.

"That wasn't the question, go back and read it again please. And ...Alternate Universe? PLEASE don't tell me you are gonna starting spitting out words like Illuminati, Synergy and paradigm?"

That WAS the question, because if wiccannism had the same history of crusades and killing and wiping out cultures, I would have issues with it. Of allying yourself with a culture that has a bloody history. The fact is, Christianity is continuing to spread, wiping out unique cultures and at the least, altering them to the point that my ancestors had largely forgotten their pre-Contact ways by 1880. One of the reasons we know as much as we do about the Cherokees is because it was written down somewhere, along with people who hid out and continued as much of the pre-Contact traditions as they could. If you read this book here, you'll see what had happened to the Cherokees.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Uwg...0-1838&f=false

Click on the left arrow repeatedly above the yellow bar to start from the very beginning.

"If you are referring to the fact that more wars have been fought or started in the "name of god" true! but I would hardly call those folks Christian. I mean, is Hilter really a good example of Christ? Did he REALLY love his brother? I think not." So, the question becomes, "Who is really the Christian in this hypothetical group of 1,000 people standing around me, say at 11:30 on February 23, 2012?" Is it those who say that LGBT is an abomination of people who should not exist, or is it those who say that these people are an intentional creation of the Apportioner, along with everyone else?" I think the Christian that is in power of a particular sect, denomination, or splinter group is one who belongs to the largest group of Christians that think alike. Look at what happened when the Puritan Parliament came to power - Christmas was banned, and in Colonial America, Christmas was banned by similar people in 1659. If you brought a Puritan from the past and brought him here to observe what happens at Christmas time, explain the technology, and then asked him, "Do you believe these people are true Christians?" He would probably say no. The question I have is, is there a record of particular Christian denominations having changed position on various things 200-400 years apart? One of these is the inclusion of openly LGBT people in the congregations today. If you went back in time and asked them 300 years ago (if the denomination was in existence by then), would they have accepted LGBT people? If not, would that mean if the people from 300 years ago were brought to the future of the church they were in, would they then kick out the current Christians for supporting LGBT rights? Does that mean in the eyes of centuries ago, today's people are not Christians?

What I see happening is that there is this sometimes imperceptible, gradual change in what makes a Christian a Christian, and it appears to be weakening in places, little by little.
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
yaahl is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 02:09 PM   #32
Unregistered Cherokee
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
deafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scale
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11
Credits: 304.01
Savings: 0.00
Yaahl, that's fine by me. Anything to stop these trolls/spammers.

Rezrazed, I realize that we have different views on this. Let's leave it at that.
deafdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 03:39 PM   #33
Banned
 
Items Tree
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: in constant conflict with myself
Posts: 493
Credits: 13,536.73
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
Ok folks, please try and respect that there are many people on here that practise organized religion or have belief systems that are not straight out of a book. The next post that takes a shot at any religion without authorities, citations or references will get this thread locked up. We clear?
Yes Ma'am!


Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
That WAS the question
To be more precise the question was would you continue with your drum magazine subscription if the Wiccan or New Aged or Neo-Pagan lifestyle was promoted, not if they were a bloody religion. Which then again ask the question, where is your stance on Extreme Islam? Or Buddhist monks who attack other religious houses of worship? http://transcurrents.com/news-views/archives/11589

The point being when you point the finger at one you can point the finger at all, even Americans forget about Timothy McVeigh. Still not the shiningest example of a Christian, if you ask me.
As a musician myself, and one who makes a pretty decent second income off of it, I can tell you that the industry is alson NOT increasing it's Christian values, but more and more increasing in secular humanism. If you mag is increasing in Christian values, it might be because you subscribe to Christian Drummer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
As for the history you quoted, I assumed you knew that.
You mean you don't remember this stuff from grade school? I'll admit, an encyclopedia did help with the exact dates, but I thought the rest was common knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
"If you are referring to the fact that more wars have been fought or started in the "name of god" true! but I would hardly call those folks Christian. I mean, is Hilter really a good example of Christ? Did he REALLY love his brother? I think not." So, the question becomes, "Who is really the Christian in this hypothetical group of 1,000 people standing around me, say at 11:30 on February 23, 2012?" Is it those who say that LGBT is an abomination of people who should not exist, or is it those who say that these people are an intentional creation of the Apportioner, along with everyone else?" I think the Christian that is in power of a particular sect, denomination, or splinter group is one who belongs to the largest group of Christians that think alike. Look at what happened when the Puritan Parliament came to power - Christmas was banned, and in Colonial America, Christmas was banned by similar people in 1659. If you brought a Puritan from the past and brought him here to observe what happens at Christmas time, explain the technology, and then asked him, "Do you believe these people are true Christians?" He would probably say no. The question I have is, is there a record of particular Christian denominations having changed position on various things 200-400 years apart? One of these is the inclusion of openly LGBT people in the congregations today. If you went back in time and asked them 300 years ago (if the denomination was in existence by then), would they have accepted LGBT people? If not, would that mean if the people from 300 years ago were brought to the future of the church they were in, would they then kick out the current Christians for supporting LGBT rights? Does that mean in the eyes of centuries ago, today's people are not Christians?
I think the problem that you have here is that you like so many others don't understand that there are Christians and there are christians. Little c christians are the one who the media loves to portray as the majority. The protest funerals for soldiers, and tells everyone that God hates them, and they are all gonna burn in hell, except them of course. then there are Christians, big C, they are the majority, and the silenced majority at that. They are the ones that believes homosexuality is wrong, but KNOWS, their sins before God stand out just as much as the LBGT's does. They are also the ones who know what tolerence, (as taught in the bible) truly is, and what it is not. And for some of us who were raised up with both ways (Native and Christian) we KNOW the good the good Christians do, when they help to better lives on the Rez. Care enough to bring missionary groups to help better lives, people and a community. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked and bring relief to the widow. If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. Isaiah 58:10
For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me. Matthew 25:35-40

Do you know how many of us have been on the receiving end of this, and on the giving end? To come on here and spout hatred out of your mouth about Christians is to say the least insulting, and typical for the New Agers and Wannabe, it's also just jumping on the global band wagon. I'd ask you just as I ask everyone else. Would you DARE to say anything about extreme Islam? I think not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
"So then I ask are all NDN's drunk, wife beating, deadbeat lowlifes because one might be?" I don't know where you got that idea. Of course, I know that not all Christians are like that,
But that IS the VEMON that came out of your mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
What I see happening is that there is this sometimes imperceptible, gradual change in what makes a Christian a Christian, and it appears to be weakening in places, little by little.
And you would be correct for those who have no clue about what Christianity is, and for those who think they know what Christianity should be. BUT and this is a VERY big BUT, (I like big butts and I can not lie... sorry Flashback,)Christians, BIG C Christians, know what they believe, and there is no need for change because they got the answer from the author of all things. The only thing they need to change, is themselves, not their belief system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Rezrazed, I realize that we have different views on this. Let's leave it at that.
I can totally leave it at that, I just corrected some ill thought rants about a particular group/clan/culture/religion from someone who was claiming that their group/clan/culture/religion was being attack by another.
rezrazed is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #34
Unregistered Cherokee
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
deafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scaledeafdrummer is off the scale
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11
Credits: 304.01
Savings: 0.00
Rez - let's not get this thread locked. Yaahl asked to stop this.

Edit: you went ahead and did it anyway on that last pass.

Yaahl, lock it. People are watching.

Last edited by deafdrummer; 05-29-2012 at 04:31 PM..
deafdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 05:07 PM   #35
Banned
 
Items Tree
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: in constant conflict with myself
Posts: 493
Credits: 13,536.73
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Rez - let's not get this thread locked. Yaahl asked to stop this.

Edit: you went ahead and did it anyway on that last pass.

Yaahl, lock it. People are watching.
I believe I am within the parameters that the moderator asked, if not, I am sure I will be informed, and will take the necessary actions to rectify the offense.
rezrazed is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 06:01 PM   #36
Me & Eyes are the best !
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 16,013
Credits: 73,467.70
Savings: 1.00
He's using general terms , and provided a link to his source....I see no problem with his post.

Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more the going into the garage makes you a car.....I think that was by George Carlin...
Another favorite of mine is " The best cure for Christianity , is to read the Bible !" Mark Twain
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-29-2012, 06:21 PM   #37
Banned
 
Items Tree
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
rezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond reputerezrazed has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: in constant conflict with myself
Posts: 493
Credits: 13,536.73
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
He's using general terms , and provided a link to his source....I see no problem with his post.

Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more the going into the garage makes you a car.....I think that was by George Carlin...
Actually I think it was G.K. Chesterton, but both funny and true, but I do believe Carlin referenced it somewhere also.
rezrazed is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 06-01-2012, 08:20 AM   #38
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
He's using general terms , and provided a link to his source....I see no problem with his post.
Agreed.

"Lock this" is what folks typically say when they're getting KILLED by another poster.
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Columbus day 49in_ndn Chit Chat 11 10-07-2004 06:26 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery