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Old 04-27-2006, 11:23 AM   #1
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What do People think about non-indians...

what do people think about non-indians making and selling look alike indian arts/crafts/regalia? Do you think this practice should be allowed? Would you purchase such a piece? and do you feel it takes away from legit Indian artists/craftspeople? is this more cultural theft?
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:01 PM   #2
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It is illegal. It can and should be reported.
There was a recent thread that had the information on how to report those types of people.
Maybe it was in Chit-Chat?
I'm old and don't remember.
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maji
It is illegal. It can and should be reported.
There was a recent thread that had the information on how to report those types of people.
Maybe it was in Chit-Chat?
I'm old and don't remember.
sorry,im meaning things NOT labled as ndn made,but rather look like our art etc.
things sold as ndn made and arent ,are illegal...im talking about a hobbiest who sells things that look indian but not labled as ndn made sorry for any confusion..
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:13 PM   #4
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My advice is to not buy from them, then.
Not sure how else to combat such things.
Maybe, make sure they have a disclaimer showing it is not authentic?
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:56 PM   #5
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I think they should not be able to profit from someone else's cluture. I would not buy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maji
My advice is to not buy from them, then.
Not sure how else to combat such things.
Maybe, make sure they have a disclaimer showing it is not authentic?
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Old 04-27-2006, 06:53 PM   #6
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Makes no sense to buy ndn crafts and artwork made by a non ndn, not when u can get as good or better from an ndn. Besides , why support the culture vultures
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hywalker
Makes no sense to buy ndn crafts and artwork made by a non ndn, not when u can get as good or better from an ndn. Besides , why support the culture vultures
maybe people should boycott people who make the "knock off's".....
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokoki_wolf
maybe people should boycott people who make the "knock off's".....
boycott the makers, the shows that dont promote native work, would be a good start. I keep my copy (lol) of educating lil tree close by me so i remember to make sure of what i'm buying (yeah i know, i'm still grumbling over buying that book lol)
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hywalker
boycott the makers, the shows that dont promote native work, would be a good start. I keep my copy (lol) of educating lil tree close by me so i remember to make sure of what i'm buying (yeah i know, i'm still grumbling over buying that book lol)
a bittersweet reminder eh HW?
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokoki_wolf
a bittersweet reminder eh HW?

bittersweet and yet a lil relief, only cost me a cpl bucks for the lesson not hundreds and sometimes thousands others loose to non ndn made items or plastic medicine men. i got off cheap i think lol.
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hywalker
bittersweet and yet a lil relief, only cost me a cpl bucks for the lesson not hundreds and sometimes thousands others loose to non ndn made items or plastic medicine men. i got off cheap i think lol.
lol ya you did....if eveyone would stop and ask the person theyre buying from are you indian? then maybe it would help stop this tide of culture vultures profiting from our culture...what they do isnt illegal but its highly unethical and hypocritcal...if they wannabee so badly,then why are they exploiting legit indian artists?they spout these beautiful words and yet they continue to steal from outr childrens mouthes with each and every thing they sell and every order they take away from a real indian...talk about a lack of respect for the people the imitate and emulate....
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Old 04-27-2006, 09:20 PM   #12
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How do you know whether they are telling the truth or not? If you can't tell quality or true native work by examining it, then you should expect to get cheated. My issue is seeing all the knock-off beadwork from over seas, and people trying to convince me they made it or it is real. Hello! I'm an artist myself, and I do not have dumb-blond indian written all over my face, get a clue people...
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Old 04-27-2006, 09:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WocusWoman
How do you know whether they are telling the truth or not? If you can't tell quality or true native work by examining it, then you should expect to get cheated. My issue is seeing all the knock-off beadwork from over seas, and people trying to convince me they made it or it is real. Hello! I'm an artist myself, and I do not have dumb-blond indian written all over my face, get a clue people...
i agree about the hong kong crap but theres many hobbiest types who duplicate our art and sell it maybe as ndn made maybe not but im sure they dont bother to say its not ndn made either....all about the money and i think when they sell thinsg that look ndn it swells their egos...and im sure they take satisfaction in knowing they puit one over on us porr dumb indians and took away our business happens all too often
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:10 AM   #14
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My husband has roaches made by Camille Michaels and are of top notch quality. I know she does alot of business with natives or she would'nt be in business. She is not native but man that woman can tie a roach!

My husband also has moccasins made of buffalo rawhide and brain tanned leather, fully beaded by a white man in IL who was selling moccassins because he needed money being a cancer patient and could'nt work, only collected disability. They are made as well as any native can make them. He did'nt undercut native prices either to sell them.

But just because we have bought from non native crafters does not mean that we have'nt given plenty of work to native crafters as well. And we do put preferrence to the native artisans above the non native.

It just does'nt bother me if a non native makes and sells crafts, as long as they are well made and don't undercut native prices to give them an edge and don't try to claim that they are native made. If they are selling native crafts that look like crap, then who's going to buy from them anyhow right?
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Old 04-28-2006, 09:55 AM   #15
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Cool

Blackbear has stated it very eloquently, or you will buy, in most cases, those items that are of good quality, expertly made and at a reasonable price from any good craftsman...Native or Nonnative. And let me throw in...who is an honest craftsman with a reputable reputation who delivers their product in stated time and price.
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
My husband has roaches made by Camille Michaels and are of top notch quality. I know she does alot of business with natives or she would'nt be in business. She is not native but man that woman can tie a roach!

My husband also has moccasins made of buffalo rawhide and brain tanned leather, fully beaded by a white man in IL who was selling moccassins because he needed money being a cancer patient and could'nt work, only collected disability. They are made as well as any native can make them. He did'nt undercut native prices either to sell them.

But just because we have bought from non native crafters does not mean that we have'nt given plenty of work to native crafters as well. And we do put preferrence to the native artisans above the non native.

It just does'nt bother me if a non native makes and sells crafts, as long as they are well made and don't undercut native prices to give them an edge and don't try to claim that they are native made. If they are selling native crafts that look like crap, then who's going to buy from them anyhow right?
quality of work isnt the issue at all...the best quillwork ive ever seen was done by a non-indian woman...and a person on disability selling a pair of mocs isnt the same at all as some one who is openly making a living or a substantial income from selling... there are many non-indian people who do our arts and they openly solict for work and more times than not undercut on prices...happens all the time and right here on this site too....not all say their indian either,i think most are genuine and say theyre not or dont claim to be...if you were at cultural street fair BB and theres 2 people selling the same type of beadwork...quality is about the same,styles and pieces are similar...one vendor is indian,one is not...the non-indian vendor has their work priced 25% lower than the indian artist...who would you buy from? how would you ,as an artist feel,if a non-indian took work away from you when you needed that money? ... not only does undercutting push legit artists out ,but it also lowers fair market price on work...i learned that lesson years ago when i taught beading...after i taught a few classes the area became saturated with lower priced,lesser quality work and it literally killed my income...thats why i dont teach anymore... sadly the average person whos going to buy something indian doesnt really care who makes something as long as it looks nice and they get a good price...look at dreamcatchers...something that was ours ,isnt anymore...ive seen dreamcatchers with pentagrams in them for sale ,plastic baby dolls attached,and all that god awful pink and purple leather and feathers... dont you think thats affected alot of indian people who used to make dreamcatchers? and what about the non-indians who sell replicas of our sacred things? the web's full of them
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
And let me throw in...who is an honest craftsman with a reputable reputation who delivers their product in stated time and price.
im sorry would you please clarify and /or explain this statement?
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:25 AM   #18
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As we both know, there are craftsmen out there who take money and then do not send the goods made. Recently there have been posts on this website bemoaning this problem. So, reputation of being an honest artist can also play in this area.
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
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As we both know, there are craftsmen out there who take money and then do not send the goods made. Recently there have been posts on this website bemoaning this problem. So, reputation of being an honest artist can also play in this area.
ty for the clarification...reputations for honesty in work extend to everywhere,not just in indian world..of course theres dis-honest artists of all races etc....and a person who is dishonest in business is soon no longer in business either...but with indian arts,the honesty about being indian or not being indian is a factor that doesnt occur in other businesses
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:50 AM   #20
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I think there are really two types of people buying stuff:

Artsy Fartsies. They are interested in authentic pieces for their walls and display cases. They insist on, and rightly should have, all the documentation they want that their item is indeed Indian made.

and

Pow wow peeps. They love good looking stuff no matter who makes it.

I believe the law states something like you can't pass off non native made stuff as native made stuff. Non native made stuff can be sold (legally) if is stated that it is non native made. Hence the term "replica" for all the non made stuff out there. If you are Native it isn't a replica I guess, it is the real deal. Even if the items are made in the same manner with the same materials.

One is art, one is a pratical item that us used regularly.
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