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Old 11-15-2006, 09:22 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds
The government does all sorts of weird things with the "combo race" people for reports. Here is the official stance for "mixed" race people for 2 of the government stat projects I have personal knowledge of:

if you say you are one race then you are that race (including other)
if you say you are more than one race:

if you say white and some other race from the list - you are the other listed race

if you are any two races other than white - you are multi racial

if you check any race and choose "other" then you are multi racial

SO -

All ndns + black (or asian, etc) are multi racial
All ndns + white are ndn
All ndns who checked other and wrote in their tribes are multi-racial

Just an FYI -

b2w

Statistics don't lie but liars often use statistics.

All of these stats prove only one thing:

The federal government is more confused about our NDN cultures then we are.

WE are "Winning the War"!!!!!!!!

The feds are baffeling themselves with their own bull! LOL

After a bit of thinking, Some people out there can be white + multi-racial + have a tribal ID card but not be NDN. Now that's our federal goverment in Action for you!!!!!!
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:44 AM   #62
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most ppl play this
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:53 AM   #63
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and the rest of us are serious
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:15 AM   #64
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Twisted Census Stats

Looking at all the stats that have been posted here over the last day or so proves one thing. The government pre-twists the stats to reflect what they think is correct. The only true way that the government can actually count the NDN population is to look at the regestry of Native American. ( who is card carring). Even that is inaccurate because all NDNs do not regester.

I guess that make most of us "illegals" "no green card". We better run and hide or our fate will be the same as the people crossing the border from Mexico. What are they going to do with us. Send us home? That means if I am caught, I will be sent out west for free. (wow a free trip to Montana) or they could send me to my place of tribal origination. That's about five miles away from where I live. Those houses in that part of the city are worth over a million each. Better start packing!!!! LOL!
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:35 AM   #65
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Nah man, they got an easier solution - McCain's Bill absolving the government of it's "losing " 900 billion in ndn money does so by removing the fiduciary treaty obligation the feds have towards the ndn Nations. Which is a big step towards dissolving the tribes. After which it will be declared that "ndns don't exist anymore".

And we'll all just disappear in a puff of statistics and become "other".
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:36 AM   #66
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To me, a real indian, is full blood and speaks their own language. This is what I've been told by my elders. So I'm not a true native, but I do have native descent. I don't speak my own language and I am 5/8 native. Sooooooo, I'm just saying if I'm not "native" then I know a whole he-ll of alot of others that are nowhere close either!!!

I don't mean to step on toes, but in reality it's really a good thought. Anyone can learn culture and ways and still not be native or be of that tribe......doesn't make them native.


k, I'm done. *L*
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:50 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds
Nah man, they got an easier solution - McCain's Bill absolving the government of it's "losing " 900 billion in ndn money does so by removing the fiduciary treaty obligation the feds have towards the ndn Nations. Which is a big step towards dissolving the tribes. After which it will be declared that "ndns don't exist anymore".

And we'll all just disappear in a puff of statistics and become "other".
Does that give us legal rights to REPO Manhatten????
Never mind it would cost more then $900 billion to clean it up and restore it.

Don't mind me. I'm in one of my moods a gain!
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:57 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
Does that give us legal rights to REPO Manhatten????
Never mind it would cost more then $900 billion to clean it up and restore it.

Don't mind me. I'm in one of my moods a gain!
One of the elders who spoke at the GMU Vet's pw suggested that we start a repo. I actually think that may have merit.

We can start with getting the WHOLE Black Hills area back, Bear Butte and surrounding areas and continue on; expanding all of the treaty granted ndn lands until the 900 Billion is satisified. Wonder if the World Court at The Haighe would hear the case???
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:20 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds
One of the elders who spoke at the GMU Vet's pw suggested that we start a repo. I actually think that may have merit.

We can start with getting the WHOLE Black Hills area back, Bear Butte and surrounding areas and continue on; expanding all of the treaty granted ndn lands until the 900 Billion is satisified. Wonder if the World Court at The Haighe would hear the case???
Somehow I don't think they will listen unless we start a war or something. Wounded Knee 3 is not my idea of a good time. My wife lost innocent family members up on Pine Ridge during 2.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:23 AM   #70
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A repo would be great. Up here in Canada alot of the land is un-ceaded. Guess they better say good bye to capital hill, amoungst other places.

As to the comment that you got to be full blood & speak your language, well that's a load of BS. I know elders who are not full blood,, mostly, but not entirely. And then there are those of us who were adopted out, what wer'e not ndn cause the government took us & placed us where we wouldn't learn the language? That would be givin the government exactly what they wanted when they scooped us! I have never met an elder who believed I wasn't ndn because of this, I have met ndn ppl who said this sure, but not ever met an elder who did.

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Old 11-15-2006, 11:40 AM   #71
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I can't speak for Standnwolf---but Hubby can't have any of the caine sries of meds, like Novacain. Dentists have to put him totally under; he broke the arm of an Army Dentist years ago who told him, "this won't hurt a bit." REALLY! He can't handle any alcohol---but lotsa Indians are like that, LOL! Many antibiodics are a bad thing. He gets a buzz off ibuprophen--go figure. He is highly sensitive to meds that a Dr wouldn't think twice about offering a white person. He is diet controled diabetic; he was on insulin for awhile, but it didn't help his sugar swings. Now we just watch his diet---not alot of junk. The anti-nausea shot after a bad bout of tummy flu sent him unto all night shaking jitter fits. Blood pressure meds can be organized into several categories, and some of the categories an NDN should NOT take. He WAS on Lisinopril, a Beta blocker; that was the one the VA Dr gave him, and he tolerated it the best. But after a few years of muscle cramps, he weaned himself off of that and got on an herbal formula that is working much better with far fewer side effects. Sounds like he's sickly---but he isn't. He used to be a drill Instructor for the Army, could push troops with the best, and is still a very active guy. But I hve to watch him like a hawk if he gets to feeling a bit puny----because most Dr's don't realize there's a differents in how NDN's handle meds--or they think we are stupid and just don't know anything.

As for the dental thing---the old dentist that worked on my MIL's teeth told her that Indians have FOUR roots on their molars----which make them more difficult to pull. The novacain shots have to be given in the bracial nerve, on the jawbone joint. That gets the whole area numb. He was the first dentist that hadn't REALLY hurt her, and when she asked WHY it hadn't hurt, he told her she was Indian. And that started the whole voyage.....

You got that right! I had the same experience with Novacaine when I was a teenager and the Dentist "Pulled" my wisdom teeth, he was shocked to see 4 roots..I tried to tell him but he wouldn't listen, neither would my mother they insisted I go back and have the last one pulled too. I did and after that I didn't visit another dentist until years later. When I finally did go,I made sure my guy Knew what he was dealing with and he actually looked up what and how to do for me. Needless to say he's never hurt me and I've had plenty done!
When I joined the Marines I was given a series of shots before getting orders to ship out, I was sick as a dog from one of them, never did find out which one and they didn't care to find out. But thats the Govnt. for ya.
I have found herbal remedies work best for me, no side effects.
If I'm REALLY sick my doc knows what I can take. Afew years ago, I had swelling in my neck, it hurt like all get out to swallow and was getting worse, so my husband took me to the E/R. I had what they called a "saliva tube blockage" thats on the side of your throat and when you swallow you can feel it. Mine got blocked by calcium build up and got infected. All the docs there wanted to "have a look at that" they had read about it, but had never seen it.If I hadn't gone it could have kept swelling until my throat closed off. Afterwards, I found out ndns are prone infections most docs have read about but never seen. Just another tidbit for ya.
So, any "unusal symptons" see your doc and make sure he understands your different and can't always be treated like the "normal" person can. Oh yeah, another thing, ndns are more likely to have cancer, gerds, heart and lung problems, along with diebetes etc. I'm not saying other races don't have the same problems, but we tend to have the ones that are rare.
Hope what we both had to say here helped. Feel free to ask anytime!
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:47 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
To me, a real indian, is full blood and speaks their own language. This is what I've been told by my elders. So I'm not a true native, but I do have native descent. I don't speak my own language and I am 5/8 native. Sooooooo, I'm just saying if I'm not "native" then I know a whole he-ll of alot of others that are nowhere close either!!!

I don't mean to step on toes, but in reality it's really a good thought. Anyone can learn culture and ways and still not be native or be of that tribe......doesn't make them native.


k, I'm done. *L*
Someone better tell McCain to hold off on pushing that bill through the feds. It's a waste of time and money. According to CandsePrincess the bill doesn't need to be passed because in the next 100 years ther won't be any "REAL NDNs" left to pay off! The feds can do it cheaper by draging it out!
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:53 AM   #73
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Exactly my point Dtwosnakes! You seek out the truth and not make things up along the way. That's the way it should be done!

you go DTWO! I know the kind of man you are and honesty is what you have always brought with you that and the uncanny knowledge of things you understand without being told. Anyone who meets you knows it, like TK said..seek the truth and not making things up along the way. of course I am a little bit predjudice....
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:06 PM   #74
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Standnwolf sez...."Oh yeah, another thing, ndns are more likely to have cancer, gerds, heart and lung problems, along with diebetes etc. I'm not saying other races don't have the same problems, but we tend to have the ones that are rare."

HA!!! I'll have to tell your dental story to my Mother in Law---she'll get a big ole kick out of it! Thanks for bringing the last group of diseases up, Standnwolf. Lung stuff, esp. is hard on Indians---Hubby gets chest colds BAD. I told him if he were a racehorse, they'd breed him out of the genepool 'cause he has weak lungs. He just gave me an onrey look, LOL!!! Too late---we have four kids...and three grandbabies!
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:07 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4
A repo would be great. Up here in Canada alot of the land is un-ceaded. Guess they better say good bye to capital hill, amoungst other places.

As to the comment that you got to be full blood & speak your language, well that's a load of BS. I know elders who are not full blood,, mostly, but not entirely. And then there are those of us who were adopted out, what wer'e not ndn cause the government took us & placed us where we wouldn't learn the language? That would be givin the government exactly what they wanted when they scooped us! I have never met an elder who believed I wasn't ndn because of this, I have met ndn ppl who said this sure, but not ever met an elder who did.

Suzze
You sound a little defensive to me. I'm talking about in the native world. Others know what I am talking about. It's not a complicated view point or a narrow minded one. But I think it takes a narrow mind to NOT see the big picture. People get so touchy about their race or it's like they try to PROVE how native they are. You either are or you aren't and that's basically it.

And to the comment about natives not being around in the next 100 years, YEAH, that's a possibility. If the same amount of white people died at the rate of natives based on population.....about 200,000 would be dying a day. THEN IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM. But not if it's natives dying. It's just "part of being native". Right???
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:19 PM   #76
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1990 Census???? sorry not good enough. That info is 16 years old. Less the 75% of the population fill out the census forms and send them in. A lot of the forms that are also sent in are inaccurate due to smudges and other errors. Just think of voting machines and the errors they create. There is also a population of people who refuse to be counted. Another part of the population was living at a different address from where the forms were sent so those people were never counted. There was also that check box marked "other". A lot of mixed people checked that box. black/white red/white black/red red/other etc. The cencus is very inaccurate.

Another thing: Due to parents covering their true culture, a lot of native people were marked as white.

Looking at your bio, you were only 4 years old or so. How did your parents mark there census for you? Did they even get one?

Oops! One thing I forgot: Many reseveration in this country didn't have home delivery of mail in 1990. They still don't today. How many ndns got the forms from their post office and tossed them in the trash can at the office. Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of ticked off ndns because of what was going on in the government who could not care less about the census.
Sorry, didn't mean to upset you. I am also taking a class that says there is only about 2% of Natives in the United States. You are absolutely right though, those records could be inaccurate.

Actually I am not full Native (If you couldn't tell, hehe, But I'm sure you could.) My dad is Navajo and my mother is Irish. And no, we never have filled out a Census report. I was 5 in 1990; I'm sure that I wasn't counted on that report. I have always lived a Native lifestyle and I do have NDN blood. My grandparents refused to be confined to a reservation; they wanted to be treated equally as the white men. My grandmother is still alive but my grandfather is not. I was told that I needed to claim the male side of my blood (Navajo is what I was told...) but my grandfather passed when I was three. Which may be why I do not have a card. I am trying to get information on that though so I can get my card if possible. Actually, if anyone can help me find my grandfather on a list it would be appreciated. I have his full name and birth/death dates.

I agree that if you have NDN blood, no matter the degree and you live an NDN lifestyle and you are true to your heritage than you are, most definately, NDN.
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:30 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
You sound a little defensive to me. I'm talking about in the native world. Others know what I am talking about. It's not a complicated view point or a narrow minded one. But I think it takes a narrow mind to NOT see the big picture. People get so touchy about their race or it's like they try to PROVE how native they are. You either are or you aren't and that's basically it.

And to the comment about natives not being around in the next 100 years, YEAH, that's a possibility. If the same amount of white people died at the rate of natives based on population.....about 200,000 would be dying a day. THEN IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM. But not if it's natives dying. It's just "part of being native". Right???
Sorry if it seems like I got a little hot there. But a lot of us look at things a little different. Sure most of us are not 100%. That's a given. The people who are 100% are a very small part of the population. Less then 1/4 of 1%. Once we loose those people, in your elders way of looking at things, The Genacide of the Native American is finished. They just wiped out the entire race and culture in 600 years through opression.

Now look at us. We are the one who want the native people to live on and thrive. We are the 1/2 the 1/4 the 1/8 the 1/16 and less. We are the ones who are fighting to keep the traditions.

The way you posted your words, It appears your 5/8 means nothing. There are a lot of people here that would love to trade your 5/8 for there 1/16 or less. Might just be a really fair trade .
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:32 PM   #78
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Someone better tell McCain to hold off on pushing that bill through the feds. It's a waste of time and money. According to CandsePrincess the bill doesn't need to be passed because in the next 100 years ther won't be any "REAL NDNs" left to pay off! The feds can do it cheaper by draging it out!
I do speak my Grandfather's language, I do have ancestory, but I know some will never accept me as native. Not that this is a big deal to me, I made peace long ago with who I am and where I belong.

It's just that the whole "knowing your language" thing that Candae mentioned gets me going.

I speak fluent German.

Does that make me German? My German relations say no - my father and grandfather are not German (read not white) so to THEM I am not German. I can polka 'til I puke and celebrate OktoberFest and read Goethe in the original... not ever going to be German to them.

I speak passable French... so am I French? No blood, never been to France - the knowledge did come in handy deciphering Creole when I lived among the Cajun in Louisiana and has been helpful in talking to folks in parts of Canada. So while I know how to act properly in Cajun country and can politely ask someone to pass the butter in Quebec - no I'm not French either.

Just knowing a language and being culturally adept doesn't confer a particular racial, cultural or personal identity on me anymore than being fluent in Pascal, Fortran or Basic and attending DEF CON every year makes me a computer.

Just my .02 being between2worlds
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:48 PM   #79
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I do speak my Grandfather's language, I do have ancestory, but I know some will never accept me as native. Not that this is a big deal to me, I made peace long ago with who I am and where I belong.

It's just that the whole "knowing your language" thing that Candae mentioned gets me going.

I speak fluent German.

Does that make me German? My German relations say no - my father and grandfather are not German (read not white) so to THEM I am not German. I can polka 'til I puke and celebrate OktoberFest and read Goethe in the original... not ever going to be German to them.

I speak passable French... so am I French? No blood, never been to France - the knowledge did come in handy deciphering Creole when I lived among the Cajun in Louisiana and has been helpful in talking to folks in parts of Canada. So while I know how to act properly in Cajun country and can politely ask someone to pass the butter in Quebec - no I'm not French either.

Just knowing a language and being culturally adept doesn't confer a particular racial, cultural or personal identity on me anymore than being fluent in Pascal, Fortran or Basic and attending DEF CON every year makes me a computer.

Just my .02 being between2worlds
Oh Patrick!!!!!

I wish I had your way with words.

I guess I just get a little "hot headed" sometimes.

I need a good sweat. I'm over due!
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:38 PM   #80
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Sorry, didn't mean to upset you. I am also taking a class that says there is only about 2% of Natives in the United States. You are absolutely right though, those records could be inaccurate.

Actually I am not full Native (If you couldn't tell, hehe, But I'm sure you could.) My dad is Navajo and my mother is Irish. And no, we never have filled out a Census report. I was 5 in 1990; I'm sure that I wasn't counted on that report. I have always lived a Native lifestyle and I do have NDN blood. My grandparents refused to be confined to a reservation; they wanted to be treated equally as the white men. My grandmother is still alive but my grandfather is not. I was told that I needed to claim the male side of my blood (Navajo is what I was told...) but my grandfather passed when I was three. Which may be why I do not have a card. I am trying to get information on that though so I can get my card if possible. Actually, if anyone can help me find my grandfather on a list it would be appreciated. I have his full name and birth/death dates.

I agree that if you have NDN blood, no matter the degree and you live an NDN lifestyle and you are true to your heritage than you are, most definately, NDN.
It was my understanding that the Dine' are a matriarchal society and the lineage comes down thru the mom. Maybe someone can shed some light on this for ya.
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