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Old 11-15-2006, 01:45 PM   #81
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I understand what Candae is sayin. Kind of like a person claiming to be Catholic and never attending mass. Do the heads of church and other members view them as being Catholic just because they were christened when they were babies?

(poor example one is blood and the other is religion i know that... but it's still early........ just work with me here and you'll know what I mean )
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:47 PM   #82
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You are right, the women are the head of the Dine. My grandfather (my grandmother is Chickahomony I think...) was the Navajo though which is why I was told to claim his side because his mother was Navajo. Hehe. It is a little confusing. My grandfather's mother is not alive either. If she was I would be living with her with my husband and daughter because it is traditional to live with the grandmother or great-grandmother in my case because my grandfather does not have sisters. Although, I did live with MY grandmother for a long while (until I was married) even though she is not Dine.

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Old 11-15-2006, 01:51 PM   #83
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Isn't Chickahomony matriarchal too? You could go thru that grandma couldn't ya?
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:54 PM   #84
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I don't know much about Chickahomony unfortunately. My grandmother lived her life as Navajo with her husband and I was taught Dine ways. I could ask her about those things... I'm glad you brought that up. I'll have to look into it. I do not want a tribal card just to have it. I want it so I am recognized with my heritage/culture and so that I can find possible lost family and to pass down to my daughter and her family when she has children. I will teach my daughter what I have learned when my grandmother can no longer teach or when she passes. Being Native is a wonderful thing and it is something to cherish because the way society is today is so rediculous. So many murders...stereotypes...people treading this land...it's terrible.

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Old 11-15-2006, 02:02 PM   #85
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I doubt this will make anybody feel any better, but a couple years ago I read about a study that concluded that in 100 years, there will be no more natural blondes left in the entire world - it's a real recessive gene and it will disappear. Only the bottled variety will be left - and actually, in the United States, I suspect the only real blondes now are first or second generation Scandivanians.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:05 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trob226
I doubt this will make anybody feel any better, but a couple years ago I read about a study that concluded that in 100 years, there will be no more natural blondes left in the entire world - it's a real recessive gene and it will disappear. Only the bottled variety will be left - and actually, in the United States, I suspect the only real blondes now are first or second generation Scandivanians.
Could that be a reason why Hitler wanted to kill everyone who wasn't blonde with blue eyes?
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:08 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds
I do speak my Grandfather's language, I do have ancestory, but I know some will never accept me as native. Not that this is a big deal to me, I made peace long ago with who I am and where I belong.

It's just that the whole "knowing your language" thing that Candae mentioned gets me going.

I speak fluent German.

Does that make me German? My German relations say no - my father and grandfather are not German (read not white) so to THEM I am not German. I can polka 'til I puke and celebrate OktoberFest and read Goethe in the original... not ever going to be German to them.

I speak passable French... so am I French? No blood, never been to France - the knowledge did come in handy deciphering Creole when I lived among the Cajun in Louisiana and has been helpful in talking to folks in parts of Canada. So while I know how to act properly in Cajun country and can politely ask someone to pass the butter in Quebec - no I'm not French either.

Just knowing a language and being culturally adept doesn't confer a particular racial, cultural or personal identity on me anymore than being fluent in Pascal, Fortran or Basic and attending DEF CON every year makes me a computer.

Just my .02 being between2worlds
Yeah, you have it right. I think it's both blood and culture that make you who you are, if you want to be part of a category of people. I have German, Irish, French, Indian, English and Swiss blood, but don't have much understanding of any of these cultures and don't have enough blood of any of them to amount to half of me. So I guess I'm Amurican.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:12 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar
Could that be a reason why Hitler wanted to kill everyone who wasn't blonde with blue eyes?
Nah, it never occurred to Hitler that blue-eyed blondes would ever die out. He was just nuts.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:32 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar
Sorry, didn't mean to upset you. I am also taking a class that says there is only about 2% of Natives in the United States. You are absolutely right though, those records could be inaccurate.

Actually I am not full Native (If you couldn't tell, hehe, But I'm sure you could.) My dad is Navajo and my mother is Irish. And no, we never have filled out a Census report. I was 5 in 1990; I'm sure that I wasn't counted on that report. I have always lived a Native lifestyle and I do have NDN blood. My grandparents refused to be confined to a reservation; they wanted to be treated equally as the white men. My grandmother is still alive but my grandfather is not. I was told that I needed to claim the male side of my blood (Navajo is what I was told...) but my grandfather passed when I was three. Which may be why I do not have a card. I am trying to get information on that though so I can get my card if possible. Actually, if anyone can help me find my grandfather on a list it would be appreciated. I have his full name and birth/death dates.

I agree that if you have NDN blood, no matter the degree and you live an NDN lifestyle and you are true to your heritage than you are, most definately, NDN.
Cougar,

You didn't upset me. I just get on a roll every now and then. Call it my "passion for the people" or "plain old hot headed". (the first one sounds better but the second one is truer LOL!) It's just that I do a lot of reserch for my work and come across a lot of different stuff that intrests me. I punched holes in the census because to me it's a joke. It shows nothing but what the population chooses to say twisted by what the government wants to report. Most of my research is actually in music. Copyrights and such. I also do much research in Native American music. After all, audio and recording is the business I am in.

Right now I am sitting in the recording studio control room and on pw.com with you guys. Today is a very slow day. Everything is caught up and I can just relax. Yep I sometimes hide here to just get away and listen to some Black Lodge, Southern Cree, Bird Chopper, or what ever is on hand. It's so nice to listen on a pro quality sound setup. You can actually hear the snap of a stick on the drum. It's so KEWL. It's like you're sitting at the drum.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:49 PM   #90
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Nothing beats being right next to the drum. When you are right next to it, you feel it in your heart, physically and emotionally. :)
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Old 11-15-2006, 03:11 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar
Nothing beats being right next to the drum. When you are right next to it, you feel it in your heart, physically and emotionally. :)

YEPPERS!!!!!!!!! You know where it's at!!!!!
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Old 11-15-2006, 03:52 PM   #92
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Talking

...yep,can't beat that feeling in all the world.When that drum calls,you can't resist it's pull,that fo' sho'!!
The identity thing can be a real bummer,especially if you don't look NDN,but it's no better even if you do.Heck,when I wanted to learn more about "my people",I was put through the wringer.I was scrutinized,HELL,GRILLED,by Elders,sometimes for hours,just to get every small bit of knowledge I have gotten....sometimes it's also a trust factor that comes into play too.So many FBI's have taken their culture and lifeways,and literrally sold them to the highest bidder,and that just irks me to no end.
But still I am glad for the little I've gotten so far,and hope to earn the love,trust,and respect of many more "teachers" to come....keep smilin'1
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:28 PM   #93
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The Grease factor....

Will determine your "Indianess"

Yes i'm bored....
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Old 11-16-2006, 03:54 PM   #94
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Lightbulb Opinion of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeannB
I've done alot of reading and web cruising the last few days, and spent alot of time on the phone, partly about this question. Hopefully I am not going to open a too big of a can of worms....but I want to sit and listen to the opinions and reasons of others.

Is is genetics that make an Indian? genetics and paperwork from the Feds? A certain percentage of Indian genetics VS other races in a person? Something else? Let me know what you think and WHY. I am trying to understand. Thanks, Leann
In my opinion if you do "good" as much as your allowed to, for the other living things of this world, you are a native of this land, besides the stigma placed on the people of this land early on. I have discovered a new side to they & there life style. Good is the best word I think of to discribe Native people of this land. I beleve that with me whole heart.
http://www.manataka.org/page1890.html
this link to me discribes what Im talking about. May you enjoy the movie. I did.

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Old 11-16-2006, 04:03 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk_FeatherJY
In my opinion if you do "good" as much as your allowed to, for the other living things of this world, you are a native of this land, besides the stigma placed on the people of this land early on. I have discovered a new side to they & there life style. Good is the best word I think of to discribe Native people of this land. I beleve that with me whole heart.
http://www.manataka.org/page1890.html
this link to me discribes what Im talking about. May you enjoy the movie. I did.
OHHH, I like that one! I hadn't ever read it. Thanks!
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Old 11-16-2006, 04:13 PM   #96
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did you see the movie? its on the link posted in the message, & I'm glad you liked it.
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Old 11-16-2006, 05:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
You sound a little defensive to me. I'm talking about in the native world. Others know what I am talking about. It's not a complicated view point or a narrow minded one. But I think it takes a narrow mind to NOT see the big picture. People get so touchy about their race or it's like they try to PROVE how native they are. You either are or you aren't and that's basically it.

And to the comment about natives not being around in the next 100 years, YEAH, that's a possibility. If the same amount of white people died at the rate of natives based on population.....about 200,000 would be dying a day. THEN IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM. But not if it's natives dying. It's just "part of being native". Right???
Your comments don't leave me feeling angry or defensive, just sad. Especially for those out there like me who may be discouraged to take back the idetity the government tried to steal from them, for those of our ppl who might remain lost in the scoop cause they run into ppl like you.

if I hadn't run into some good ndn ppl, who knows where I'd be now. I'm 1/2 Lakota & 1/2 french. I was adopted out & grew up without either of my languages. From your statement I would be nothing. But I know your wrong. I am ndn & I am french, & I'm proud.

My community & my husbands family (Mohawk) have tought me well, we live a good life. I am confident in my identity, & I know I should be, I especially know this when my (traditional) Mom in law tells me how proud she is to tell ppl I'm her daughter. That's why I know I have nothing to prove
Suzze

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Old 11-16-2006, 06:47 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4
Your comments don't leave me feeling angry or defensive, just sad. Especially for those out there like me who may be discouraged to take back the idetity the government tried to steal from them, for those of our ppl who might remain lost in the scoop cause they run into ppl like you.

if I hadn't run into some good ndn ppl, who knows where I'd be now. I'm 1/2 Lakota & 1/2 french. I was adopted out & grew up without either of my languages. From your statement I would be nothing. But I know your wrong. I am ndn & I am french, & I'm proud.

My community & my husbands family (Mohawk) have tought me well, we live a good life. I am confident in my identity, & I know I should be, I especially know this when my (traditional) Mom in law tells me how proud she is to tell ppl I'm her daughter. That's why I know I have nothing to prove
Suzze
Suzze,

"Hou koda" "Toked yaun he?"

Remember these words always when you feel sad or angry. The words are "Ohetika" "Ohoda" and "Ksapa".

And be sure to "Nape gduz'az'a" because "Wanna wota".

These words are yours to keep.

I will translate in a PM.

Ken
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:49 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4
Your comments don't leave me feeling angry or defensive, just sad. Especially for those out there like me who may be discouraged to take back the idetity the government tried to steal from them, for those of our ppl who might remain lost in the scoop cause they run into ppl like you.

if I hadn't run into some good ndn ppl, who knows where I'd be now. I'm 1/2 Lakota & 1/2 french. I was adopted out & grew up without either of my languages. From your statement I would be nothing. But I know your wrong. I am ndn & I am french, & I'm proud.

My community & my husbands family (Mohawk) have tought me well, we live a good life. I am confident in my identity, & I know I should be, I especially know this when my (traditional) Mom in law tells me how proud she is to tell ppl I'm her daughter. That's why I know I have nothing to prove
Suzze
AH-HO SUZZE....Be proud and carry all you learn in your heart.There will always be NDNS,even if it means we all live in mainstream society eventually.There are many Urban Native communitites,with enrolled and non-enrolled members,who do a pretty good job at upholding their traditions and sharing with each other the various parts of each others tribal customs.There are some that will accept,and others who will not.Believe me ,I've been there,done that,so just be strong and be the best PERSON you can be,whether you identify with Native or not....keep smilin'1
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Old 11-16-2006, 07:05 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions
Suzze,

"Hou koda" "Toked yaun he?"

Remember these words always when you feel sad or angry. The words are "Ohetika" "Ohoda" and "Ksapa".

And be sure to "Nape gduz'az'a" because "Wanna wota".

These words are yours to keep.

I will translate in a PM.

Ken
All I got to say is LULULULULULULULLULULULULU!!!!!!!
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