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Old 05-25-2005, 06:25 PM   #1
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When Are They Going To Give Up!?!?!?!

Damn. It's bad enough when the Establishment accuses skins of crossing over the alleged Bering Strait and populating the America's . To add insult to injury - now they're saying that they've proved ... well, just spy it for yourselves.

Go to discoverychannel.ca and peep the upcoming TV program "First Canadians".

Tell me what you think ...
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Old 05-25-2005, 09:31 PM   #2
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Bizzare! with a video even! This is wierd...and sadly, will probably be accepted in scientific circles...since then, it would be a short step to completely dis-enfranchising NDNS...(worse than it already is) and rewriting history to favor (more so than it already does!!) European superiority claims, then painting NDNs as the aggressors!
I can see it now..the nice Euros were sitting around communing with nature and blowing bubbles...peacefully minding their own business, and were invaded by NDN cultures!
This is really scary...since it basically proves once and for all the science can be used to 'prove' anything...and isn't as objective as most have been led to believe.
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Old 05-25-2005, 10:06 PM   #3
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You know... I've come to the conclusion that even if their theories prove correct... we were still here FIRST so screw them ROFLMAO
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Old 05-26-2005, 02:29 AM   #4
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okay. i have just one thing to say to these pink savages that fancy themselves as intellectuals: Go the f*ck home, and take your psuedo-science and idiotic conjecture with you. you can really prove nothing, so you sit around and think up really asenine theories, all of which are racist and self-serving. that is not science. and trying to call it science is blasphemy.
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:07 AM   #5
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hey jibby, the discovery channel over here hasnt mentioned anything on this subject, soo umm *i think you need to move to az*...lol
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Old 05-26-2005, 01:23 PM   #6
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Jibbs,

I have just written and sent my response to Discovery Canada. I encourage everybody else to do the same by emailing: [email protected]

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Dear Sir,

I am a moderator on the popular Native website powwows.com. It was recently brought to our attention that your production "First Canadians" scheduled to aire on June 26 contains views about First Nations People that is contradictory to what First Nations People believe. First Nations People have creation beliefs that "do not originate on another continent."

It is a strong dislike among North American Natives that nonIndian researchers (scholars, historians, ethnologists, archeologists and anthropologists) determine public perception of First Nations/American Indian culture. Would Discovery Canada be willing to do a project on First Nations people and have respected individuals from the Native community speak about their own cultures and creation beliefs - in the first person?

Isn't it about time First Nations/American Indians are seen on the Discovery Channel telling their own stories of who they are - in the first person? Maybe your viewing audience may "discover" that there is another version to how history is told.
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Old 05-26-2005, 05:24 PM   #7
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FROM: THE CONCORD MONITOR ONLINE NEWSPAPER

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...4/REPOSITORY/5
05240351/1013/NEWS03

Study: Ice Age Nomads Were First North Americans

Scientists: As few as 70 came from Siberia


By ROBERT LEE HOTZ
Los Angeles Times


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
May 24. 2005 8:00AM


The founding fathers of North America numbered as few as 70 intrepid Ice Age
nomads who first migrated from Siberia, according to a new genetic analysis
made public yesterday.

Population geneticist Jody Hey at Rutgers University in New Jersey calculated
that the first wave of American immigrants was a trickle - perhaps a single
small tribe that struck out on its own from an ancestral population in Asia
numbering no more than 9,000 people.

"A tiny fraction went to the New World,"Hey said.

The study of the founding human population of North America - the most
comprehensive to date - was published Monday in PLoS Biology, an online journal of
the Public Library of Science.

"The small number is surprising to me,"said anthropologist Joanna L. Mountain
at Stanford University. "We may be looking at the winners here. It is quite
likely that other groups came over and did not survive."

If the original settlers were so few, "that would be quite striking," said
Theodore Schurr at the University of Pennsylvania's Laboratory of Molecular
Anthropology. "It would have a lot of biological and medical implications."
Long frustrated by the paucity of direct archeological evidence, researchers
in recent years have searched for any biochemical traces of the early
pathfinders that may still survive in the cells of their descendants hundreds of
generations later.

Using the tools of molecular biology and population genetics, experts have
learned to reconstruct ancient migrations by tracking the movements of tell-tale
genes in geographic patterns. They also can estimate the timing of population
movements by calculating the steady mutation rate of key genes.

Hey calculated the pattern of inheritance of nine different genes among
contemporary Asian and Native American peoples with a set of computer simulations.

"Every individual gene has its own history," Hey said. "If you use only one,
then you have a good chance of being quite wrong about the history of the
population."

By Hey's calculations, the wanderers reached North America some time between
7,000 and 14,000 years ago, more recently than archeological evidence that
shows humans may have been in the Americas for about 15,000 years, several
experts said.

Hey focused on only one of the three major language groups in North America
-the Amerind speakers - who are believed to represent the earliest people who
ventured across an ancient land bridge from Siberia into Alaska and then deep
into the continent.

The number of these first immigrants whose genes have survived into the
present was about 70, Hey said. Counting all adults, however, including those who
did not survive long enough to start families, "we might be talking as many as
a couple of hundred individuals."

"It is clear that Native Americans don't have as much genetic variation as
Asians,"Hey said. "There was definitely a bottleneck of some sort."

------ End of article

By ROBERT LEE HOTZ

Los Angeles Times
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Old 05-26-2005, 05:24 PM   #8
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FROM: CBC NEWS ONLINE

http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/nati...ate050524.html

First North Americans Few In Number

Last Updated Wed, 25 May 2005 09:55:56 EDT
CBC News

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. - The first humans to cross the Bering Strait land bridge
and colonize North America thousands of years ago were part of a group that
numbered about 200 people, new research shows.

"It's based on a tribal unit, which most people considered sensible,"
researcher Jody Hey told CBC News Online.

The land bridge between present-day Siberia and Alaska is now submerged under
the Bering Strait.

But thousand of years ago, mammals - including humans, perhaps on the hunt
following animals - would have used it to cross between the continents.

The land bridge was grassland even during ice ages, fossil records show.


FROM JUNE 4, 2003: Tiny plants sustained ice age herds: Canadian study

Hey, a genetics professor at Rutgers University in New Jersey, compared the
gene sequences of modern day native Americans and northeastern Asians in order
to find differences in their histories.

He fed these patterns into a mathematical model that he devised to determine
population separation: when the Asians left for America and if they moved back
and forth.

He found that the number of people of childbearing age in the first wave
numbered about 80, and that they would be part of a larger clan that migrated
across the land bridge.

"The main new things about my paper is the method and the number," Hey said.
"There really hasn't been that kind of estimate before."


FROM OCT. 20, 2001: New Ideas About the New World

Hey downplayed his model's estimated crossing date, 8,000 years ago, saying
the archeological evidence of 14,000 years ago was likely more reliable.

"I found some evidence of people moving back and forth, but it's not very
strong, so that question is somewhat unresolved," Hey said.

Hey said he hoped the study, published on Tuesday by the journal Public
Library of Science, would influence anthropologists and geneticists to use his
model to study other population movements, such as when man moved out of Africa or
founded Japan.
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Old 05-26-2005, 05:27 PM   #9
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I wonder.. how in the world they do this genetic testing to say anything about native americans.. I don't remember any kind of genetic testing campaign going to the reservations and asking people for a swab of their mouth or blood samples... so I have to wonder who and how many were tested... or if they were not, how did they get the samples?????????
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Old 05-26-2005, 06:36 PM   #10
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Old 05-26-2005, 06:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear
I wonder.. how in the world they do this genetic testing to say anything about native americans.. I don't remember any kind of genetic testing campaign going to the reservations and asking people for a swab of their mouth or blood samples... so I have to wonder who and how many were tested... or if they were not, how did they get the samples?????????

I was looking fer that article to post too. yeah i was umm speechless to that and was like umm they call themselves scientists??.. its almost like they tryin to disprove that NAtive people were original Dwellers of the North Americas so they can get out of whatever promises they made. ONLY 70 original Native Americans HUH??? LMAO well to that if it were true... i say that we HAVE proven the strength of Native people to survive that long and to grow as large in numbers as we did.. or are they tryin to say we are ALL part Asian??? LMAO...Gwaaa its just stupid!!!!
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:28 PM   #12
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Hey all those arabs are only descended from Ishmael and whoever he married. That was only 4000 years ago. Its obvious they only tested the amerind group which is only one language family they tested.
Pretty stupid science actually. According to spanish documents indians displayed a wide variety of eye color and skin color.
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:44 PM   #13
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yep..i watched one the other day from pbs dot org..says we have chinese in us also... chinese fleet came here b4 columbus... some guy named menzies' theory... why dont they ever think the other way around? maybe some skins went that way and brought back wives or what not?
and no indigenous people cold make the pyraminds they got help from aliens... ...


im glad that kinda made sense.. i was thinking later on on the bus.. man i dont even make sense to me... yeah i heard doctors have been taking samples of us without our permission for years...

Last edited by middle of the sky; 06-01-2005 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:57 PM   #14
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Old 05-31-2005, 07:50 PM   #15
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and no indigenous people cold make the pyraminds they got help from aliens...
................and someday they will return for us and take us back to the skyvilliage LOL!!!
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Old 06-01-2005, 03:42 PM   #16
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yep..i watched one the other day from pbs dot org..says we have chinese in us also... chinese fleet came here b4 columbus... some guy named menzies' theory... why dont they ever think the other way around? maybe some skins went that way and brought back wives or what not?
and no indigenous people cold make the pyraminds they got help from aliens... ...


im glad that kinda made sense.. i was thinking later on on the bus.. man i dont even make sense to me... yeah i heard doctors have been taking samples of us without our permission for years...
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Old 06-06-2005, 02:53 PM   #17
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FROM: CANADA.COM NEWS NETWORK WEBSITE

http://www.canada.com/news/national/...4d26-85af-fb55
e6753357

Skeptics Scuttle Claim Chinese Discovered Cape Breton Before Columbus, Cabot

Alison Auld
Canadian Press


June 4, 2005


HALIFAX (CP) - A nine-kilometre road winds its way up an isolated mountain
where a stone wall sits amid fields of wild blueberries and mayflowers. A closer
look reveals a series of stone platforms.

At first glance, the scene is not an unfamiliar one in Cape Breton's
sprawling wilderness.

But this one, nestled along the island's east coast, has become the latest
battleground for archeologists with the startling claim it was discovered by the
Chinese, long before the arrival of any European explorers.

"This is probably the most important archeological site in the world right
now and it's going to change world history," Paul Chiasson, who found the site,
said from his home in Toronto.

"Well before Christopher Columbus, well before the European age of discovery
in the 15th century, China controlled the seas and had a major settlement on
the eastern coast of North America."

Chiasson, an architect originally from Cape Breton, set off a heated debate
in historical circles last month when he presented a paper in Washington
outlining his belief that an armada of Chinese ships, carrying thousands of sailors,
landed in Cape Breton as early as the 1300s.

Canadian and U.S. archeologists and historians have dismissed the assertion,
arguing there is no evidence to support what they say is just another wild
theory about North America's first foreign visitors.

"The evidence here was absolutely missing," Kirsten Seaver, an historian with
a specialty in early Norse mapping, said from her home in Palo Alto, Calif.

"It just looks very strange to me that this would have anything to do with
the Chinese - medieval Chinese sitting there like an island thousands of miles
away from home. How would they get there? Why would they get there and why
haven't we found any other traces anywhere else?

"Notoriety is a very strong motivator."

Chiasson insists the settlement is Chinese because of very distinct features
he says only the Chinese would construct:

-The lengthy stone wall is similar to the ones the Chinese built around their
encampments.

-The road leading to the site is the same, standard width of old Chinese
roads.

-The stone platforms are similar to ones found in the Forbidden City in
Beijing.

Chiasson, 50, discovered the mysterious site more than a year ago while
hiking in the area, which he is keeping a secret until it receives protected status
by the province.

He says he came across a wider-than-average road that led him up the side of
a steep, rocky cape, some 300 metres high. Surrounded by ocean on three sides,
the cape is topped by a field and a stone wall.

Inside the three-kilometre-long wall, Chiasson found 15 rectangular platforms
he believes were once the foundations for houses.

At first, he thought he had stumbled upon an old European site. But after
reviewing aerial photos and sifting through stacks of history books in a Toronto
library, he became convinced it was Chinese.

"There were moments when I had to leave the library because I was dumbfounded
because the facts would simply pop out of the books," he said. "This will
turn history on its head . . . and every day I realize how major a discovery it
is."

But the find has elicited little enthusiasm among archeologists in the
region, who say it is almost certainly an old farm.

"There are these kind of stone ruins all over Nova Scotia . . . and by and
large, they're all just abandoned Loyalist farm sites," said Rob Ferguson, an
archeologist with Parks Canada in Halifax.

"There are people who seem to take a hypothesis . . . and before you know it
you have Phoenicians sailing across and Egyptians, and suddenly everyone is on
your shore."

Provincial officials have said they won't explore the site because it seems
unlikely it is Chinese.

David Christianson, curator of archeology at the Nova Scotia Museum, has seen
the aerial photos and doubts there is anything to the claim.

"I cannot find any evidence there that would in any way support the
assertion," he said. "I think he'll be disappointed. It's certainly speculative."

Chiasson scoffs at the skepticism.

"I understand the reticence on the part of the government and the museum
because it is world changing and they missed it."

He has written a manuscript about the discovery and has teamed up with Gavin
Menzies, who wrote the controversial book, 1421: The Year China Discovered
America.

Meanwhile, they're hoping private partners will step forward with funding for
an archeological dig.

The two visited the site a couple of weeks ago with an engineer and
discovered more roads and a canal system, findings that bolstered their belief in its
Chinese origins.

"It's either a grand hoax or a great discovery because it's nothing in
between," Chiasson says.

The Canadian Press 2005
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:25 PM   #18
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Damn. It's bad enough when the Establishment accuses skins of crossing over the alleged Bering Strait and populating the America's . To add insult to injury - now they're saying that they've proved ... well, just spy it for yourselves.

Go to discoverychannel.ca and peep the upcoming TV program "First Canadians".

Tell me what you think ...
Shoot.. ya know they won't give up!!! They'll continue to come up with explanations. They won't stop until it's "their" history.

AND they will never accept that we have always been here and will be here forever.
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Old 06-11-2005, 04:12 AM   #19
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The discovery special

I saw that show too. But what struck me was the underling statement that was inferred. Towards the last part of the show, they tried to say that Euros came the eastern sea coast pre columbus and that they found similar genetic patterns with the french and some of the northern eastern tribes. they also tried to link it with the arrow heads etc. etc. But if you look past the smoke and mirrors .......if they could somehow prove they were here pre columbus ....then we are no longer indigenous !

I believe that's the whole point of the research....why would they spend so much money and so much time with the left field theories. Scienticfic expeditions are funded with private funds for the most part...and they usually have political agendas as the end result. So we may laugh at their theories....but always look at the motive and spirit behind the research.



V
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Old 06-11-2005, 05:17 AM   #20
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Iif they could somehow prove they were here pre columbus ....then we are no longer indigenous !
...and they usually have political agendas as the end result. .[/size][/font]



V
exactly.. so they dont have to live up to promises...
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