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Old 01-13-2004, 01:52 AM   #1
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Lightbulb Who are the Saponi

I been doing some research on the Saponi name, I found out that the name came from Africa. Slaves came all over africa and interbreeded with whites and natives Americans over the many years, so its hard to tell if Saponi's are native America. Can any of you Saponi find more information on the Saponi past and how you came to be Saponi, reason asking beacuase many of you are black, if some of you are native it has to be Ocaneechee. Do your research and find out.
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:11 PM   #2
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Careful About Native Names

I spent some time in Southern Virginia and visited Northern North Carolina many years ago and I saw many a Saponi from Halifax to Roanoke Rapids to Elizabeth City to Suffolk and they were not Black by any means. But like many races there was a mix that could be seen. And this can be seen more in the South East and the extreme Southern West.

We must remember that all words in any language can have parallel words in another language. These words may appear to be the same depending on the many spellings and many pronuciations but they are of course different. Thus a term or word can be found to be in many places and languages at the same time. And the biggest cause of this is that Whites often used non Indigenous Words for Indigenous Words and Names for any Culture. Why else would one be able to find English Names for something in India and Africa, or French Names for something in Africa and South East Asia, and so forth. Not to mention Cultures in foreign places using their language for names in the new country such as African and other cultural words used for names in the Americas.

And like many Native American Terms and Words the name Saponi has many spellings depening on who spelled it and who pronounced it first and then continued to change it.

Perfect Example: SANTEE. This name is used for tribes in both the Plains and the South East. But they are two completely different Native American Tribes. At some point in time the Whites decided to pronouce and spell the name SANTEE the same way for both Tribes.

One can even trace the Saponi name to the following names:

Occaneechie (many spellings of this), Eno, Oconee, Ono, One & Oni (both prounounced "on nee"), and even Potoni.

We may never really know as Linguistics is like History - accurate only to point and that point is usually subjective also.
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:24 PM   #3
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IMO - I think teachbean is getting Haliwa-Saponi mixed up with the Occanechie (ever who you spell it!) band of Saponi Indians who I came to know as Eno-Och .....
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:35 PM   #4
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Re: Careful About Native Names

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Iron Eagle

Perfect Example: SANTEE. This name is used for tribes in both the Plains and the South East. But they are two completely different Native American Tribes. At some point in time the Whites decided to pronouce and spell the name SANTEE the same way for both Tribes.
Iron Eagle:

Your post is valid. Language simularities are real among diverse cultures.

Also . .

Your use of Santee is also valid. The Santee Dakota can be traced to the Catawba of the Carolinas in relationship. This band supposedly migrated from the Carolinas to Minnesota before being dispursed to their present locations in Canada, Minnesota, South Dakota and Nebraska.
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Old 01-14-2004, 06:45 PM   #5
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I have done a fair amount of research on the indian peoples of va, nc and sc. I have never saw a reference to the saponi name being african. In some of the earliest colonial records (1600's and early 1700's) the saponi are identified as being an indian tribe. There being some african ancestry in the Saponi groups now has no bearing on the true origins of the Saponi name.
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:25 PM   #6
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Watch it!

Techbean....

I think Tom Iron Eagle explained it best.

Now hear it from a real Saponi (and this is not a threat but a suggestion and a promise), get ALL of your facts straight and not leave anything behind in the future with narrow minded thoughts. Trying to claim anyone Nation of people (no matter if the people are Saponi, Lumbee, Cherokee, Kiowa, Pawnee, Ponca, Otoe, etc.) is anything other than what they are, will get you in hot water on this board. I don't know what your point was in posting such trash, and it may have very well been to get someone "rowd up".

Be careful of the waters you tread!

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Last edited by LSS; 01-18-2004 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 01-14-2004, 10:55 PM   #7
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Saponi.

Saponi is believed to be a corruption of Monasiccapano or Monasukapanough, according to David Bushnell (1930). The meaning is believed to be from the words "moni-seep", meaning "shallow water." Their closest relatives are the Tutelo.

James Mooney says the Saponi and Tutelo were remnants of the Manahoac and Monacan tribes. And after leaving Ft. Christianna, Virginia, they settled among the Iroqouis and were adopted by the Cayuga in 1753.
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Old 01-15-2004, 09:43 AM   #8
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Techbean, you need to be very careful on how you bring something to this board. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

If you have a question about the Saponi tribe, why don't you just ask someone from the Saponi tribe. You'll get better info that way. I do believe that the Haliwa-Saponi tribe has a web site, just look it up.
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Old 01-17-2004, 03:04 PM   #9
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Post watch it 2nd

Are any of the Saponi tribes recognized by the USA government? Yes I did speak to many Saponi on this issue. But they tell me many stories and none of them know their history, even I donít know the Saponi history to an extent. Back in Ft. Christiania, they were blacks, assort of natives and whites and over the years they interbreed with each other. Now as of today it is hard to tell who is native this is what I am trying to get at. But there was a tribe called the Saponi that came from Africa and were slaves at that period of time. Now can you trace back to your roots, like the Ojibwa, Sioux, Apache etc.? Now I do believe that you and many others may be one of those native people that were at Ft. Christiania.
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Old 01-18-2004, 05:04 PM   #10
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i dont know who you think you are or where you get your info from but my people are far from black. the most common saponi people are my people and we reside in the meadows of hollister nc. i happen to be a very proud tribal member and a member of a very respected drum group [stoney creek]. and dont appreciate what you said. i think you need to get your facts straight. we have a very strong history. we may not be recognized by the federal government but that doesnt make us any more or less native . so i suggest you get your facts together . this is nathan harris just so you know i dont have to hide my identity....
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Old 01-18-2004, 10:58 PM   #11
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techbean your getting the melungeons confused with the saponis, documents as early as the 1580's before african slaves in the east coast list saponi. James Smith lists saponi, nathaniel bacon massacred saponi etc etc. Anyway saponi were listed way before fort christiana. There was almost no intermarriage with blacks until the 20th century.

The melungeons however are a triracial group of people who live in the appalachian mountains mostly of black, indian and white. They can be identified by their last names and also their relative isolation from other appalachian communities.
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Old 01-18-2004, 11:36 PM   #12
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Hey Nathan...glad to see you posted!

I was wondering when someone else from back home would reply back to this thread!

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Old 01-19-2004, 03:53 AM   #13
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I have a tendency to stay away from controversy but I'm just passing through to drop a dime on this one. Being Black is not a disease and hatred is NOT a family value. I ain't mad, just puttin my pennies on the table. lol

I know a few Saponi. I always thought of them as Saponi. Didn't care as long as they were being who they truly are. Some suck. Some are hella cool. LOL I'm Black and Cherokee. When I die and this shell is laid to rest.... I'll get to see my folks. They won't be looking at the color of my skin (uhhhh could be cause I won't have any lmfao). Anyways.... Life is too damn short. Fight battles that matter--- like the effects and affects of drugs, alcohol, abuse, gang violence, and such have on our people as a whole. Talk to our daughters to get them to see how beautiful they really are regardless of what society says. Teach them how to respect themselves and not lower their standards or their drawers. Show them that the sky's the limit, success is able to be achieved, and plant seeds for our future. Teach our sons how to be men. That real men can and do cry. That they need to take care of all the babies they're out there making. How to respect women and that without us they wouldn't be here (hence the need to stop refering to their counterparts as pieces of meat, hoez, tricks, beotches, etc.). How to fight for what they believe in and there is no shame in being who you truly are. To hell with the pissing contest man... hard times are here but believe me harder times are on the way. If we can't get our sorry asses together we're screwed. No one has a heaven or hell to put you in (can put you through but not in) so come on already.

Have a good day. :)
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Old 01-19-2004, 08:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by ajlumbee
i dont know who you think you are or where you get your info from but my people are far from black. the most common saponi people are my people and we reside in the meadows of hollister nc. i happen to be a very proud tribal member and a member of a very respected drum group [stoney creek]. and dont appreciate what you said. i think you need to get your facts straight. we have a very strong history. we may not be recognized by the federal government but that doesnt make us any more or less native . so i suggest you get your facts together . this is nathan harris just so you know i dont have to hide my identity....
Get this person straight Nathan. Sounds like to me that they just don't want to listen to sound reasoning .

Hey Hollywood, maybe if they would come to y'alls powwow, then they could get their questions answered ;) .

Nathan, go ahead and crank off a couple of your best Stoney Creek songs for techbean. Maybe they will start to get a clue.
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Old 01-19-2004, 10:28 AM   #15
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Re: Who are the Saponi

Quote:
Originally posted by techbean2002
I been doing some research on the Saponi name, I found out that the name came from Africa. Slaves came all over africa and interbreeded with whites and natives Americans over the many years, so its hard to tell if Saponi's are native America. Can any of you Saponi find more information on the Saponi past and how you came to be Saponi, reason asking beacuase many of you are black, if some of you are native it has to be Ocaneechee. Do your research and find out.
I am not Saponi and I for one am greatly offended by this statement. I am Lumbee, and this is Adrian Jacobs. I think teachbean, like dancing eagle said, that maybe you should come out to the Haliwa-Saponi powwow in April (info is in powwow post) and ask these questions in person if you are so curious to know. I agree with Singing Otter that being black is not a disease. One cannot change who they are, but it is wrong to falsely label a group of native people as being someone other than who they are. Don't all of us as natives get this crap all the time from the rest of the world? Why fuel the hateration amongst ourselves.
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Old 01-20-2004, 09:15 AM   #16
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Way to go AJ, way to go. I don't think that techbean would come to the Hollister powwow. No matter how much advice that this person is getting, they are, still, not listening to reasoning. This person really needs to be educated on the ndn tribes in NC and the surrounding areas.

Come on AJ, crank me off some good ol' Stoney Creek :D . Maybe if we play some of Stoney Creeks songs for tech, the memory will get jogged but, then again, would that really help ?
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Old 01-22-2004, 03:07 PM   #17
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I would like to start by saying that I am a proud member of the Saponi tribe. There are much wiser and more knowledgeable people in my community, but I do know my fair share of my history. I know where my people come from and what they have been though. No matter the reference to other races and groups, we are a distinct group of native americans with our own ceremonies, songs, language, stories, and art work. All that we once had is not intact, but we hold on to what we do have very fiercly. I would not recommend making such rash statements in such a public place. If you choose to do so be and adult and explain yourself. If you really want knowledge, many people I know personnaly will give you what you want. If you are trying to take a shot at us, your in for a long sad fight my friend. We were here way before Columbus, and we are still fighting, and more importantly, we are still here. You don't have to like us, but you will respect us..
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Old 01-26-2004, 05:53 PM   #18
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saponi

What are you doing this research for? Why are researching the saponi's? I have pm you and you have not responded. I am a saponi and I know my history and i am very proud to be a saponi.
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Old 01-26-2004, 08:46 PM   #19
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There are many bands of Saponi - here is some info on my tribe.

The Haliwa-Saponi Tribe, approximately 3,005 members strong, have a rich and varied culture and history. These descendants of the Saponi, Tuscarora, and Nansemond, merged almost three hundred years ago to form the third largest tribe in North Carolina. The Lumbee are the largest at 40,000, followed by the Eastern Band of the Cherokee at 10,000 members. The name Haliwa represents the two counties where they live, Halifax and Warren. It was in 1953, under the leadership of Chief W.R. Richardson, that the tribe reorganized and obtained recognition from the State of North Carolina. Saponi was added in 1979 to reflect the mostly Saponi blood in their community.
For more information, contact:

Haliwa-Saponi Indian Tribe
P.O. Box 99
Hollister, North Carolina 27844
Phone: (252) 586-4017

I wish you the best in your research....
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Old 01-26-2004, 08:50 PM   #20
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To everyone else on these boards....

There are many people that come here with diff agendas....realize that and respond accordingly - sometimes words can stir emotions, and people are entitled to however they feel.

There are always people who come around here and again with motives that we don't understand....education is the only way.

All that said - ya'll have a good evening! :)
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Clan Systems Tree Archives 42 03-02-2001 01:35 AM

    

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