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Old 01-26-2004, 08:55 PM   #21
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Another article....

Ballance backs Haliwa-Saponi Federal recognition
By Dorothy Y. Lewis, Rocky Mount Telegram
HOLLISTER – U.S. Rep. Frank Ballance, D-1st District, said Wednesday he is supporting the Haliwa-Saponi tribe in its quest for federal recognition.

Marty Richardson, Haliwa-Saponi tribal spokesman, said federal recognition entitles a tribe to millions of dollars for economic development, housing, education and health care.

"One of the ways Congressman Ballance can help the tribe is by sponsoring legislation stating the tribe should be recognized by the federal government," Richardson said. "Once we are recognized, then we would have to compete with the other federally recognized tribes for money."

Ballance said he has written a letter to the Bureau of Indian Affairs stating the tribe should be recognized.

"I have not received an official request from the Haliwa-Saponi tribe to sponsor a bill, but if approached I would consider sponsoring a bill for the tribe's recognition," Ballance said.

Richardson said in order for a tribe to be eligible for federal recognition, tribal officials will have to demonstrate that the Haliwa-Saponis are a historically recognized tribe, have tribal bylaws and autonomy over their members.

The name Haliwa originates from Halifax and Warren counties, the two counties where a lot of the tribal members live, Richardson said.

Saponi officially was added to the name in 1979 to reflect the tribe's Saponi heritage.

Richardson said the Haliwa-Saponis have more than 3,000 members and are descendants of the Saponi, Tuscarora and Nansemond tribes, which merged almost 300 years ago to form the third-largest tribe in North Carolina.

"We are hoping to submit our tribe's information in support of our being recognized to the Bureau of Indian Affairs sometime in 2004," Richardson said.

The news of Ballance's support of Haliwa-Saponi recognition comes on the heels of a U.S. Senate committee approving a bill sponsored by U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Dole, R-N.C., for the Lumbees of Robeson County to be recognized by the federal government.

The Cherokees are the only tribe in North Carolina recognized by the federal government.

By being recognized by the federal government, tribes may establish casinos.

The Cherokees, located in the western part of the state, make about $137 million a year from gambling, said Brett Riggs, an archaeologist of American Indians and professor at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill.

One of the reasons Dole cited for the federal government recognizing the Lumbees was it could help to re-energize the economy in Robeson County and the surrounding area.

Ballance said Haliwa-Saponi federal recognition also could spur the economy by bringing in federal dollars to Edgecombe, Halifax, Nash and Warren counties, regardless of whether the tribe had a casino.

Richardson said the Haliwa-Saponi tribe probably would not consider having a casino because most Haliwa-Saponis are devout Christians and against gambling
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:07 PM   #22
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older article from last year....

March 18, 2003

Haliwa-Saponi Art Exhibit Opens March 21

At North Carolina Wesleyan College

Rocky Mount, N.C.—The Haliwa-Saponi Masters Art Exhibition will open on Friday, March 21, with a free public reception at 7 p.m. in the Mims Gallery at North Carolina Wesleyan College’s Dunn Center for the Performing Arts. The exhibit features three artists born and raised in Hollister, N.C. The public will have an opportunity to meet and talk with watercolorist Karen Lynch Harley, decorative potter Senora Lynch, and gourd carver Arnold Richardson.

Although each of the three artists has a specialty, all work in art and craft materials outside their specialty areas. They also contribute much of their time and knowledge of their art and of the "old ways" to young tribal members and to the outside community. Harley, Lynch, and Richardson all have been recognized as leaders, teachers, and masters in the greater Native American community in the United States.

Karen Lynch Harley, called "Yxomme" in her Native American tongue, is a prize-winning watercolorist whose artwork is displayed in national collections such as the Pequot Museum. She is a member of the Society of North Carolina Native American Artists. As a resident of Glen Burnie, Maryland, she has served three years on the Maryland Commission of Indian Affairs.

Senora Lynch lives in Hollister, N.C., and is nationally known for her decorative style of bi-chrome pottery featuring plant and animal patterns that have significance in Saponi traditions. Lynch uses a special technique of scratching patterns through a white clay surface to reveal the red clay underneath. Many of her works are in American art collections, including the Smithsonian Institution. Her development and concerns as a tribal artist are the subject of a book, The Contemporary Southeastern Indian Pottery of Haliwa-Saponi Artist, Senora Lynch by Christopher Everett, published by the University of Richmond Press in 1994.

Tsa’ne Do’se is the Native American name for gourd carver Arnold Richardson, who recently moved from Kentucky back home to Hollister. Gourd carving is a Native American tradition that has gained status as a category of American folk art. However, it is as a flutist and composer of traditional and contemporary Native American music that Richardson has become famous. Among his seven CDs, his 2002 "Spirit and Soul" received a national award.

The Haliwa-Saponi exhibition will continue through May 16. Gallery hours are 1 p.m. to 5 p.m., Monday through Friday. Tours and school visits are welcome. Call 252- 985-5268 for more information.
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Old 01-27-2004, 11:51 PM   #23
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Good call Ace

Who on EARTH could Smokin Ace be referring to? Hmmmmmmmmmm........................


Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......


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Old 01-28-2004, 03:35 AM   #24
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Techbean,



This is Tony Hedgepeth here.....AKA Tallinjun. I am Saponi. I have been living in Denver for about two years now and go to a lot of powwows north, south , east, and west. Most people welcome me with open arms and the few who don't soon do after seeing where my heart lies......In My Culture. I have alot of brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, and even grandparents who are not of my tribe. The reason that I am accepted is because the see that I am native and have alot to give. Instead of accusing, maybe you should give some respect..............then we shall see if you will be treated as family around here. I do not know everything, but I and the rest of my tribe know who we are............Do you????

Much love goes out to those who have stood up for us. I know who got my back and in future incidents.....I will have yours.


Ton.........I mean Tallinjun..............AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:13 AM   #25
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I dont think the gentleman started this thread with hostile intent. the fact of the matter is that almost all NC and VA tribes are mixed native and black and white. There is no denying it!

Consider the fact that this group had contact with europeans at least 500 years before the plains tribes did and you see why there is a loss of language adn some culture.

For you plains folks, look at the loss of language and mixing of race within your own tribes currently. THink what you will look like in 100, 200 or 500 years. See my point. It is inevitable that when you have mixed races living amongst each other that each will inter-marry.

Folks are so hung up on blacks. There are many african tribes that exist today as they did hundreds of years ago. This is not true for Native culture in this country anywere. Its funny how those same tribes, use drums, colorful dress, beadwork, etc. Thas certainly something to think about.

Now i'm sure that someone will disagree but facts are facts. 90% of native blacks from North Carolina are NDN mix!
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Old 01-29-2004, 01:19 AM   #26
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i'm not exactly sure, dunghill, where you got your facts and stats from. :dontknow: hmmmmm...... but i do not agree with your statements that imply our tribes here on the east coast are some mixed up bands of confused people. yes of course people are going to marry non ndns, it happens a lot throughout the americas . and how many places in the great us of a do you not hear people claim that their great-grandmother is a cherokee princess?? not exactly hard evidence for census data. i don't mean to be rude or get all hostile, but i just don't see the importance of getting on the black, white, native name calling streak. if people want to do research, present facts, and ask questions, that's great. but you should do it in a respectful and good way.
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Old 01-30-2004, 01:47 AM   #27
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Saponi!

Quote:
Originally posted by Techbean 2002
many of you are black, if some of you are native it has to be Ocaneechee. Do your research and find out.
Quote:
Originally posted by DungHill
I dont think the gentleman started this thread with hostile intent. the fact of the matter is that almost all NC and VA tribes are mixed native and black and white. There is no denying it!

Now i'm sure that someone will disagree but facts are facts. 90% of native blacks from North Carolina are NDN mix!
First this guy (TB) says many of the Saponi are'nt Indian at all, then he tells them that the rest of them belong to some other tribe all together.
Thats's Pretty dang arrogant if you ask me. If some folks want to believe otherwise, well whatever! If I was Saponi I would have taken that to heart to. I for one, think this character has been treated pretty politely, all things considering.

Personally I have been around enough Saponi to know for a fact who they are (I wonder how many folks can say the same), I have been around enough of them to know that there are still quite a few who probably have stronger bloodlines than 90% of the people on this board. I strongly recommend that some folks get out a little more and "DO SOME RESEARCH" before they come one here telling other people who they are and are'nt because of something they heard or found on the internet somewhere! The Saponi are a historic tribe just as all of those TB listed (in fact the word is probably older than most of the other so called historic names, most of them were invented by white’s anyway)!

What I want to know is whether some folks have spent any time with the Saponi or any other tribal community in this region, to have the authority to make such well founded and factually based statements? What is the basis for these claims other than; I saw this guy, or I heard, blah! blah! blah!

See now, nobody is denying that there are a lot of Indians in this region that have black blood, and it is a well known fact that most tribes in this area do have a higher ratio (when compared to tribes from most other places) of intermixing with blacks. No body is contesting this!

But what I get sick of personally (and I'm sure I'm not alone) is the stereotype that virtually every native from this area is mixed in this fasion, which plain and simple isn't the case (not even close, sure there’s a lot but it’s not the magority)! I've got nothing against Indian/Black mixed bloods (in fact I'm related to a few who’s black blood comes from persons not listed on the rolls), but if I'm not one I don't need someone else telling me that I am!

Some of you folks need to come and visit some of the local tribes in this area, Visit the Coharie, the Eastern Band Cherokee, the Lumbee, the Haliwa Saponi, the Tuscarora, or the Waccimaw Siouan! Go into all of these communities and see what’s there, you will no doubt be quite surprised at what you may find!

Best of luck to the Saponi Nation in their quest for federal recognition, it’s no doubt way overdue and only just that you receive it. Keep on teaching your kids their native tongue, keep on teaching them how to make those beautiful pots, keep on teaching your kids traditional dances like that canoe dance I seen you guys perform, keep on sending your kids to that chartered tribal school you guys created “without federal assistance”. No matter how things go with the BIA, congress, or with some of those ignorant haters out there, hold your heads up high and do your thing, like your ancestors have been doing for thousands of years before you!

I’ve got nothing but love and respect for the Saponi people, if some folks took the chance to know a little more about them they just might begin to feel the same way!
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:33 AM   #28
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Oh - Lumbee dancer - your words made me want to cry! :Cry

We know who we are....there is nothing but mad love for all the tribes in NC in my eyes....we have all fought many fights and will continue - but the blood that is my veins is real. I am proud everyday I walk this earth - and never have a question of who I am. I am showing that same pride to my children....they are awesome.

No matter your walk or tribal affiliation in life - it is important to know it and hold your head up. ;)
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Old 01-30-2004, 03:57 PM   #29
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All I have to say is that I have a lot of friends that are Haliwa-Saponi. Many of them are like family to me. I, even, drum with a group sometimes from the Haliwa tribe. So, for someone to come on here and try to discredit them is not only a slap in their face but also a slap in mine.

All of us who know who we are, let us continue to hold our heads up high. Let us continue to educate those who think they know about us but really don't. Let us educate them in love so that we all can be at peace.

Smokin' Ace, LSS, PA-Saponi, RedWolf Singers, SecretHill Singers, Stoney Creek, and anyone else that I might have forgotten, you know that I have nothing but mad love for all of you.
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Old 01-31-2004, 01:18 AM   #30
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Post Ok

Hello everyone, It seems many of you are with anger and many of you are trying to make sense out of all of this, you all should know in your own hearts who you are and know one should try to change that.

As for me I am Blackfoot and a little Cree from Alberta Canada, I am married to a Haliwa Saponi. She knows only my culture; we traveled down to NC one time to visit her family out through the USA. I saw the powwows in NC and WV, VG. The singing over there is different. There was a lot of Anishnawbe songs and Sioux songs.

I did my research and now I know that I wasn't correct, the reason way I posted this up, was to see if you would correct me and help me, but many of you got the better of your self. My intention was not to destroy your self-being. As a people we must come together, help one another, teach one another the things that would help all of our tribes.

Saponi people help your fellow tribal members, stand together and fight for the right that was lost, come together.

Take care my friends

By the way it was my wife idea to post this subject and she wanted me to tell some of you that you should give up the white ways and the Bible also, it is a form of control. Follow the right path and you will federal recognition.
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Old 02-02-2004, 02:29 PM   #31
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You know techbean, none of that made sense. Did you actually read any of the replies to your first statement? If you read like you type, I guess not. Anyway, we know who we are, we do help each other, and we have been standing and fighting alot longer than you or anyone you ever knew. That is the truth, I did my research before I got on this thread, I was tought all of this growing up. Nothing can be said to change that, or make me doubt my self or where I come from. I had a little trouble reading your post, it was weak and sounded like alot of arrogant backpeddleing. It must have been a couple of decades ago when you visited, and you couldn't have seen what you needed to see. Thats what happens when you are on the outside trying to look in and make assumptions. Oh yeah, and about the singing you heard, it couldn't have been me and my boys, I write all of my songs in my own language(tutelo-language of the Saponi) and I haven't heard an Anishnabe or Sioux song around here in a long time, and that goes for most of the other local drums around here. And something else, if your wife wanted to know about her people, why not let her ask someone or at least ask for her in an intelligent way. It sounds to me like you put the heat on her when you got blasted for saying something ignorant. Her being Haliwa-Saponi does not excuse either of you for your comments. I think we have shown you that we can stick together, and if your wife wants to know about her proud Saponi ancestry, there are much better ways to go about. Matter of fact, whats her name, she might be my cousin or something, I'm a Richardson. Finally, you have no business giving my people or any people religious advice. Our situation is a coplicated, and who are you to judge? Some of us believe in the Bible,church and Jesus, some of us believe in the Creator, and the pow-wow, and some of us believe in both. You can go to almost any Native community and see the same thing. It sounds like you and your wife need to do some long hard thinking, and then reply with some intelligence. Oh, and please make it a little more coherent this time.
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:46 AM   #32
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You go Quickdraw. I applaud for your remarks and stating the facts. Some people just don't have a clue do they?
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:21 AM   #33
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Wow, I have not been on this board much, mostly because of topics like this one. First of all I would like to say that I love my Haliwa-Saponi People. I think that we have one of strongest Indian communities throughout the United States federally recognized or not. This is evidenced by our local activities and cultural events like our Red Earth Cultural Group, which is composed of two groups, one under twelve years old and one twelve and over. We usually have about fifty young people and their parents at our younger class and about thirty teenagers at the older class. And what about our annual Holloween Carnival. This year we had over 200 tribal members packed into our Multi-purpose building for a good time and good fellowship. Someone has already mentioned our Tribal School, something we did for ourselves to ensure the survival of our culture and our people. Last, but certainly not least our Annual Powwow, which usually features 300 dancers and eight drums, 100 of those dancers our own, and three of our own drums. I don't really worry about what other folks think, because I know my tribal history well, I live here and work for my tribe. I have dedicated my life to preserving our culture and bringing back our tribal language. There is so much junk here on the internet about our people, mostly based on so-called studies that were done years ago, by folks who have never visited our community.

The majority of the folks who have something bad to say about Indians in North Carolina have never visited those tribal communities or talked to the elders about the struggles of the past and the struggles that continue today. Sure most of us are not federally recognized, but tribes like the Haliwa-Saponi, Lumbee, Coharie, Waccamaw-Siouan, Sapony of Person County, and Meherrin have some of the most rigid enrollment procedures of any of the tribes, because it is not based on just blood, it is based on tribal community. Just look at some of the tribes who have been recognized and look at their membership. Some of their members were "imported" "moved back" and had to get to know each other again. This would never happen with our people, we have strong Indian communities and will continue.

Techbean mentioned drums around here singing songs in other languages. Where has he been in the last 10 years. We sing songs in the Saponi language and have our own style. Now we can share our language with others, instead of a one way trade. Finally, I would like to say again that I love my people and I am proud of our accomplishments and our problems, because it only makes us strong. NahaNplekin, hawahe:wa.
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:52 AM   #34
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Changing Culture

I have to say that some of TechBeans words are hard to "grasp". One thread starting then another post being an almost perfect oxymoron. Very interesting!

There is one thing that did make sense though and visiting and not seeing a major difference in culture. Unfortunately, a great deal of the music, art, dance in the tribes in North Carolina are not truly South East.

Now while songs are sung in a Language and Dialect of the area, the songs structure and music (melody line, rhythms, accents, pharasing, pitch scale, etc.) is done in the style of Northern Plains. Hence the reason the Drums refer to themselves and Northern Style Drums.

And while a great deal of people attend the powwows, it would be a challenge to find regalia truly indingenios to the South East and North Carolina as most are dressed in Northern Plains Traditional, Grass, or Fancy.

Even many of the traders and vendors have a great deal of Plains, and South West items and not South East or Eastern items.
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Old 02-03-2004, 12:16 PM   #35
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u know i was thinking...

since Saponi's are like a conglomerate of tribes... isn't that the same as me (or an ojib or a meskwakie) claiming i'm algonquin? and trying to form a tribe called algonquin?
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Old 02-03-2004, 01:31 PM   #36
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Could you be a little more clear suprndngrl? I don't understand what you are trying to communicate exactly. No disrespect intended, I just don't want to misinterpret your statement.
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:03 PM   #37
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As for the previous statement, alot of this is true. The most popular way for Native people to gather and exchange is the powwow, we have adapted this, as many other tribes have done to maintain certain aspects of our self. But keep in mind that nothing is exactly like it used to be, I don't care where or who you are. We do in fact have songs and ceremonies, and dances, however few and far in between. You would have to visit the community to get a true idea of what we are like, and not just a powwow. Like all surviving indigenous people we are experts at adaptation, and preservation. Let's just keep that in mind when refering to certain groups. Just remember we slowed down the invasion, division and assimilation, so alot of the traditions retained by the western tribes came from advance warning and prior knowledge, at the expense of our tribal ways and life. I hope that it never catches and devastates other tribal areas as it has ours. I hope the times have changed enough to not alow this, but who am I to say. We are, and have been, on the rebound for a while now. We find something new every day, and are in a constant state of rebuilding. I believe we are a strong people, as stated by saponi4ever. His examples are but a few. All of this is just food for thought, I just hope we can start helping each other rather than questioning each other all the time. But before I get carried away, I would like some feed back please.


Respectfully yours,
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Old 02-03-2004, 03:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by superndngyrl
u know i was thinking...

since Saponi's are like a conglomerate of tribes... isn't that the same as me (or an ojib or a meskwakie) claiming i'm algonquin? and trying to form a tribe called algonquin?
I believe that what Super was trying to say was that from the Saponi's derived other tribes as did the algonquin. So would it be fair as a Kickapoo, ojib, or meskwakie (all of whom derive from the algonquin tribes) to claim algonquin?

Hmmm I wonder the same...and in doing so what really would be the benefit of the Saponi tribe's recognition versus other tribes' benefit....remember tribal members....competition.
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Old 02-03-2004, 03:32 PM   #39
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Furthermore....what benefit, if there is any, would there be if everyone went around getting people together to create or recreate a tribe that has long since passed on. Wouldn't everyone be Indian? Furthermore, if a tribe such as the Lumbee has 48,000 member couldn't they just do for themselves instead of relying on the government funding to accomplish what they want. What's the difference in a 3 member tribe or 48,000?

How much longer do we have to survive on the government anyways? Not much...especially with the way the federal deficit is. We must learn to become self sufficient in all areas and no longer depend on the government to support us. I have gone most of my life without government assistance or tribal assistance especially while in school so I for one cannot see what the benefit is in further recognition of other tribes. If you want to be a tribe then organize and teach your traditions...this doesn't need to be government funded or supplemented.

Just a thought or two!
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Old 02-03-2004, 03:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by superndngyrl
u know i was thinking...

since Saponi's are like a conglomerate of tribes... isn't that the same as me (or an ojib or a meskwakie) claiming i'm algonquin? and trying to form a tribe called algonquin?
It seems to me that you may have been somewhat confused by by the post Ace made about the Haliwas being of Saponi as well as Tuscarora and Nansemond blood.

You see the Saponi name in itself represents a distinct and historic nation (Who spoke the Tutelo dialect of the Eastern Siouan language family) not a conglomorate of tribes. Although the Haliwas do have influences from other tribes it only seems apropriate and natural to me that they identify by the one which is the core of their community. In my eyes it would seem that once members from these other nations decided to join the Saponi they in essence decided to become them (which is nothing new, native nations have been doing this since forever!).
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