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Old 10-12-2005, 02:36 PM   #61
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Do the Haliwa-Saponis and the Ocaneechi-Saponis have a tribe-to-tribe relationship? Do they acknowledge each other as Saponi or is there a feud?

I know it doesn't mean much to some, but what's right is right, and to me, besides the Eastern Band of Cherokees, the Haliwa-Saponis deserve federal recognition more than any group in the state.

Is there an active program to revitalize the Saponi language in the community? Would federal monies help if there is a program already started?
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Old 10-12-2005, 11:01 PM   #62
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I am getting pretty sick of people talking about NDN, black and white. Different races marrying blacks. Right now I am at my boiling point. People think that the black race is the cursed race or that blacks are plagued. If you don't like being around us just let us be. There is one person that is on this board that has given me a false sense of security and has made me even me feel like its bad to be black. My thing is its not bad being black. I have tried to intermingle with the NDN culture and its not easy. I get tired of being around people who makes you feel like they like being around you then when they are around their own you hear all the comments. Heaven is not divided by race and for all of you that think it is SORRY. Dancin Eagle I hope you aren't one of the ones I'm talking about because it would deeply hurt me if you turned out to be like that other person thats on this board. I'm black and british and very proud of it and I don't take my pride and turn it into prejudice.
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:40 AM   #63
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I'm sorry I don't know anything about these people other than what I've read here. I do have a comment about the Federal Recognition. I personally believe that all NDN peoples should be able to be Federally recognized if for sure they are NDN. The Government limits the amount of Tribes because they don't have to acknowledge that so many NDNs exist. For those that doesn't think it is important or necessary to have this recognition, why don't you give up yours. You can no longer have Eagle feathers/parts. No more NDN Clinics for medical needs. No Tribal affiliation. No License plates. No ID cards(this may not be too bad). You can just be one of those that will say they have a great grand ma that was NDN Princess(just a little joke). Some peoples were federally recognized but now are not for what ever reason the BIA said they aren't NDN anymore. I applaud all the groups/tribes/ villages that are in effort of rerecognition. If this takes many Tribes banning together then lets do it. I think we need all of the NDN peoples we can get. The government money is nice but not necessary. Be NDN.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:29 PM   #64
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saponi

the modern day ocaneechi fake tribe.. claims my ppl.. the guys that moved from orange cnty to macon in the 1820:s.. only problem is the guys where catawba indians.. we have written affidavits and family oral history of it... so these ppl are so stupid to say that the guys had a written documented history of who and what they where but some idiots 2day claim them and say "well they where ocaneechi and didnt really know what they where"????? come on!! this is a joke!!!
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:32 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
the modern day ocaneechi fake tribe.. claims my ppl.. the guys that moved from orange cnty to macon in the 1820:s.. only problem is the guys where catawba indians.. we have written affidavits and family oral history of it... so these ppl are so stupid to say that the guys had a written documented history of who and what they where but some idiots 2day claim them and say "well they where ocaneechi and didnt really know what they where"????? come on!! this is a joke!!!
goto youtube.. they have list of the catawba that moved with the cherokee.. my line is buckner/judy/george/ then george had my grandmother eva guy harvey..
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:18 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
goto youtube.. they have list of the catawba that moved with the cherokee.. my line is buckner/judy/george/ then george had my grandmother eva guy harvey..
Can you provide a source to your statment other than a youtube clip? Can you provide sources that are historical and archived?

While we all like to watch the occasion youtube clip, they are not the preferred or accepted manner in which to prove a contention or assertion. They are if anything, ancedotal and secondary sources.

Please read the following paper which gives a brief outline on sourcing material: http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030111/Academic%20Sources.pdf
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:28 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by LSS View Post
Techbean....

I think Tom Iron Eagle explained it best.

Now hear it from a real Saponi (and this is not a threat but a suggestion and a promise), get ALL of your facts straight and not leave anything behind in the future with narrow minded thoughts. Trying to claim anyone Nation of people (no matter if the people are Saponi, Lumbee, Cherokee, Kiowa, Pawnee, Ponca, Otoe, etc.) is anything other than what they are, will get you in hot water on this board. I don't know what your point was in posting such trash, and it may have very well been to get someone "rowd up".

Be careful of the waters you tread!

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, i agree with LSS , people!!! just read his answer thats all u need to know LOL
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:45 PM   #68
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yes its a senate document.. subbmitted to the senate by indian affairs.. i have a copy of it..its not rocket science.. they guys where catawba indians not saponi.. u can email me at .. i also have some pics of my family.. one of witch is on this list.. my great grandmothers dad george lee guy..these where the real indians.. and if my great grandmother "eva belle guy harvey" was still alive she wld also tell you that her dad was a catawba indian.. we go on facts not guess work.. weve always know who and what we are..

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Last edited by yaahl; 01-08-2012 at 12:45 AM.. Reason: Required moderation: included personal email address
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:51 PM   #69
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yeah.. we got all the proof we need...
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:43 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
yes its a senate document.. subbmitted to the senate by indian affairs.. i have a copy of it..its not rocket science.. they guys where catawba indians not saponi... i also have some pics of my family.. one of witch is on this list.. my great grandmothers dad george lee guy..these where the real indians.. and if my great grandmother "eva belle guy harvey" was still alive she wld also tell you that her dad was a catawba indian.. we go on facts not guess work.. weve always know who and what we are..
My request is not a suggestion. You have made reference to a youtube video which sets out a reference to historical documents. As I set out, while we enjoy watching the occasional video, folks are more interesting in locating primary sources and original or microfilmed documents.

If you have these facts as you claim, then sourcing your material should not be a problem.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:23 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
the modern day ocaneechi fake tribe.. claims my ppl.. the guys that moved from orange cnty to macon in the 1820:s.. only problem is the guys where catawba indians.. we have written affidavits and family oral history of it... so these ppl are so stupid to say that the guys had a written documented history of who and what they where but some idiots 2day claim them and say "well they where ocaneechi and didnt really know what they where"????? come on!! this is a joke!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
yes its a senate document.. subbmitted to the senate by indian affairs.. i have a copy of it..its not rocket science.. they guys where catawba indians not saponi.. u can email me at .. i also have some pics of my family.. one of witch is on this list.. my great grandmothers dad george lee guy..these where the real indians.. and if my great grandmother "eva belle guy harvey" was still alive she wld also tell you that her dad was a catawba indian.. we go on facts not guess work.. weve always know who and what we are..

Mod NoteIf anyone would like to contact this user they can do so through PM.
I'm a little confused.

There was someone else on here recently (who got himself banned for being abusive and using foul language) that stated his people, the Occaneechi Saponi, were originally from Viginia and moved to Hillsboro, NC. Then migrated to the Catawba Tribe in South Carolina before migrating back to the present day Mebane, NC area.

Are you agreeing, or disagreeing, with this contention?
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:14 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
I'm a little confused.

There was someone else on here recently (who got himself banned for being abusive and using foul language) that stated his people, the Occaneechi Saponi, were originally from Viginia and moved to Hillsboro, NC. Then migrated to the Catawba Tribe in South Carolina before migrating back to the present day Mebane, NC area.

Are you agreeing, or disagreeing, with this contention?
i partly agree.. they were still a handfull of saponi indians around that area at that time.. so theys a good possibilty that yall are of saponi decent... but what i am saying is that my ppl never where part of the saponi tribe.. they where catawba.. not saponi.. about 300 of my ppl lest that area and moved to macon n.c. they were taken in by the cherokee.. and that indian affairs paper was them askin for help to be removed to oaklahoma becuse they where poor and starving pretty much.. some did move west after that.. moved all over.. i also have the guy family bible.. goes back to 1832.. my grandfather has cancer and is 83 years old so he gave me the stuff his mother had givin him b4 she passed away.. i do know that we also have jefferies blood line in us 2 if u are fimilar with them.. these ppl mixed it up.. they mixed saponi/catawba/lumbee u name it... but the guys where part of the catawba tribe of indians.. and keep in mind this is my family:)
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
Can you provide a source to your statment other than a youtube clip? Can you provide sources that are historical and archived?

While we all like to watch the occasion youtube clip, they are not the preferred or accepted manner in which to prove a contention or assertion. They are if anything, ancedotal and secondary sources.

Please read the following paper which gives a brief outline on sourcing material: http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030111/Academic%20Sources.pdf
well for one it is paperwork filed away in the "catawba files" at the indian affairs office in washington d.c..."the catawba nation in rock hill s.c. also has copies of this" 2nd i know my family.. i know what they passed down to us.. yes this is my family u can go to familysearch.com.. look up george l guy "my great great grandfather" on cencus.. he is living with his mother judy guy.. judys dad was named buckner..all where mullato... buckner was williams guy son.. william is my 5th grandfather..buckner married silvia jeffers in orange county n.c. b4 moving to macon.. and also have another report from the harris and keggs of virginia "catawba indians" and they comfirm that these ppl are their relatives and belong to the catawba tribe of indians.. i just ask that they take the saponi label off of my family because of the simple fact that they are not saponi.. no disrespect but i here alot of backwards hogwash about my family from ppl that didnt even know them.. thanks..
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:06 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE View Post
I'm sorry I don't know anything about these people other than what I've read here. I do have a comment about the Federal Recognition. I personally believe that all NDN peoples should be able to be Federally recognized if for sure they are NDN. The Government limits the amount of Tribes because they don't have to acknowledge that so many NDNs exist. For those that doesn't think it is important or necessary to have this recognition, why don't you give up yours. You can no longer have Eagle feathers/parts. No more NDN Clinics for medical needs. No Tribal affiliation. No License plates. No ID cards(this may not be too bad). You can just be one of those that will say they have a great grand ma that was NDN Princess(just a little joke). Some peoples were federally recognized but now are not for what ever reason the BIA said they aren't NDN anymore. I applaud all the groups/tribes/ villages that are in effort of rerecognition. If this takes many Tribes banning together then lets do it. I think we need all of the NDN peoples we can get. The government money is nice but not necessary. Be NDN.
i couldnt agree more.. but thats what the feds wanted to do along.. breed out the indian.. wait them out.. its like if u have a ansestor on census thats listed as mullato.. this was done for a purpose.. so future generations cldnt leaggly claim indian blood and seek federal money for the horrible way they treated the indian ppl.. u just simply mullato or colored buy a legal stand point and its not right... its a shame is what it is.. god bless the halwia and lumbee ppl..
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:29 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
the modern day ocaneechi fake tribe.. claims my ppl.. the guys that moved from orange cnty to macon in the 1820:s.. only problem is the guys where catawba indians.. we have written affidavits and family oral history of it... so these ppl are so stupid to say that the guys had a written documented history of who and what they where but some idiots 2day claim them and say "well they where ocaneechi and didnt really know what they where"????? come on!! this is a joke!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
i partly agree.. they were still a handfull of saponi indians around that area at that time.. so theys a good possibilty that yall are of saponi decent... but what i am saying is that my ppl never where part of the saponi tribe.. they where catawba.. not saponi.. about 300 of my ppl lest that area and moved to macon n.c. they were taken in by the cherokee.. and that indian affairs paper was them askin for help to be removed to oaklahoma becuse they where poor and starving pretty much.. some did move west after that.. moved all over.. i also have the guy family bible.. goes back to 1832.. my grandfather has cancer and is 83 years old so he gave me the stuff his mother had givin him b4 she passed away.. i do know that we also have jefferies blood line in us 2 if u are fimilar with them.. these ppl mixed it up.. they mixed saponi/catawba/lumbee u name it... but the guys where part of the catawba tribe of indians.. and keep in mind this is my family:)
So Mr. harvey...let me see if I see what you're saying here.

The Saponi in Mebane are not Saponi, but are Catawba posing as Saponi. But the Catawbas went with the Cherokees (what time period was this?).

Now you say your family is also Jeffries, of which their are Jeffries surnames in the Occaneechi Saponi tribal members.

So are are any of the Occaneechi Saponis member of your family?

And the people who have posted above are right. YouTube is to watch powwow videos and funny videos. No one puts any merit in YouTube when it come to records.

FYI the people who rant and rave only find themselves looking in on this site.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:40 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
So Mr. harvey...let me see if I see what you're saying here.

The Saponi in Mebane are not Saponi, but are Catawba posing as Saponi. But the Catawbas went with the Cherokees (what time period was this?).

Now you say your family is also Jeffries, of which their are Jeffries surnames in the Occaneechi Saponi tribal members.

So are are any of the Occaneechi Saponis member of your family?

And the people who have posted above are right. YouTube is to watch powwow videos and funny videos. No one puts any merit in YouTube when it come to records.

FYI the people who rant and rave only find themselves looking in on this site.
1820;s is when they moved.. i dnt know what is in mabene n.c. thats not what im saying.. what im saying is my family are catawba indian.. what tribe are u from?
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:57 PM   #77
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So Mr. harvey...let me see if I see what you're saying here.

The Saponi in Mebane are not Saponi, but are Catawba posing as Saponi. But the Catawbas went with the Cherokees (what time period was this?).

Now you say your family is also Jeffries, of which their are Jeffries surnames in the Occaneechi Saponi tribal members.

So are are any of the Occaneechi Saponis member of your family?

And the people who have posted above are right. YouTube is to watch powwow videos and funny videos. No one puts any merit in YouTube when it come to records.

FYI the people who rant and rave only find themselves looking in on this site.
fyi? is that why u are looking on this site?
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219 View Post
1820;s is when they moved.. i dnt know what is in mabene n.c. thats not what im saying.. what im saying is my family are catawba indian.. what tribe are u from?
My mother was San Carlos Apache from Arizona. Her family left that area after she was born in 1930. They moved to our present location when she was a young girl.

You see Mr. harvey. It's not about what other people are not, it's about what you are.
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

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Old 01-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
My mother was San Carlos Apache from Arizona. Her family left that area after she was born in 1930. They moved to our present location when she was a young girl.

You see Mr. harvey. It's not about what other people are not, it's about what you are.
what am i?
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #80
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What am I? I am a lover of pie.....
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