[Joe's Dad]

To me, you are nothing more than Mr ducky harvey. No more, no less. I have never met you, I will more than likely never meet you. I don't put food on your table and conversely, you do not put food on mine.

So I guess the answer to your question is...I don't really care who you are.

[Joe's Dad]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy

What am I? I am a lover of pie.....

I concur Dr. Iowa_Boy. I'm sitting this dance out and getting me some yellow cake with chocolate frosting and search Ebay for a set of black n whites. I seen them on there!!!

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219

1820;s is when they moved.. i dnt know what is in mabene n.c. thats not what im saying.. what im saying is my family are catawba indian.. what tribe are u from?

They went with us in the 1820's? To Indian Territory? The Catawba?
There was some movement in the 1817's to Arkansas Territory but they were Cherokee later known as Old Settlers and now UKB.
I also know of two other tribes that were part of us the Euchi and the Delaware but for different reasons and the Delaware finally split off from us and formed into a Seperate Tribe again not too long ago.
But not the Catawba that is the first Time I have ever heard of that one.
I will have to do some more research on this one

[ducky_harvey8219]

Originally Posted by Josiah

They went with us in the 1820's? To Indian Territory? The Catawba?
There was some movement in the 1817's to Arkansas Territory but they were Cherokee later known as Old Settlers and now UKB.
I also know of two other tribes that were part of us the Euchi and the Delaware but for different reasons and the Delaware finally split off from us and formed into a Seperate Tribe again not too long ago.
But not the Catawba that is the first Time I have ever heard of that one.
I will have to do some more research on this one

yeah between 1820 and 1830 they moved.. not out west but to ellijay macon n.c. and jackson county.. later in 1870;s is when they applied for gvmnt help in moving to cherokee west tettry.. but no help was never givin.. some still live in macon/swain/jackson area to this day.. alot of these same ppl also applied to the miller roll claming they where cherokee later. trying to get cherokee entitlements..

[yaahl]

Originally Posted by Josiah

They went with us in the 1820's? To Indian Territory? The Catawba?
There was some movement in the 1817's to Arkansas Territory but they were Cherokee later known as Old Settlers and now UKB.
I also know of two other tribes that were part of us the Euchi and the Delaware but for different reasons and the Delaware finally split off from us and formed into a Seperate Tribe again not too long ago.
But not the Catawba that is the first Time I have ever heard of that one.
I will have to do some more research on this one

Which the research would be all that much easier if the poster relying on that information would give something more than "the document is in the state archives and a second copy at the tribal council" as where they got the information from.

Duck Harvey, does this document have a title? A reference number or library of congress number? How did you access it?

[ducky_harvey8219]

Originally Posted by yaahl

Which the research would be all that much easier if the poster relying on that information would give something more than "the document is in the state archives and a second copy at the tribal council" as where they got the information from.

Duck Harvey, does this document have a title? A reference number or library of congress number? How did you access it?

yes.. its senate document #144"the catawba tribe of indians" adressed to the 54th congress.. preseneted by eli s. parker. head of indian affairs.. eli parker was also the first native to be appointed head of b.i.a..

[Toolbox]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy

What am I? I am a lover of pie.....

I too am a lover of pie.

Officer ToolBox reporting for duty... Bumping this thread so I can keep an eye on it.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

I filmed a POWWOW near Parker, AZ...here's some proof -
.
.



While at this Colorado River Indian Tribes powwow, i learned that the nearby town was named for Ely Parker;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker,_Arizona

PARKER, ARIZONA

Founded in 1908, the town was named for Ely Parker, the first Native American commissioner for the U.S. government.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_Parker

Ely Samuel Parker (1828 – August 31, 1895), (born Hasanoanda, later known as Donehogawa) was a Seneca attorney, engineer, and tribal diplomat. He was commissioned a lieutenant colonel during the American Civil War, when he served as adjutant to General Ulysses S. Grant. He wrote the final draft of the Confederate surrender terms at Appomattox. Later in his career, Parker rose to the rank of Brevet Brigadier General. President Grant appointed him as Commissioner of Indian Affairs, the first Native American to hold that post

When Ulysses S. Grant became commander of the Military Division of the Mississippi, Parker became his adjutant during the Chattanooga Campaign. He was subsequently transferred with Grant as the adjutant of the U.S. Army headquarters and served Grant through the Overland Campaign and the Siege of Petersburg. At Petersburg, Parker was appointed as the military secretary to Grant, with the rank of lieutenant colonel. He wrote much of Grant's correspondence.

Parker was present when Confederate general Robert E. Lee surrendered at Appomattox Courthouse in April 1865. He helped draft the surrender documents, which are in his handwriting. At the time of surrender, General Lee mistook Parker for a black man, but apologized saying, "I am glad to see one real American here." Parker was said to respond, "We are all Americans, sir." Parker was brevetted brigadier general of volunteers on April 9, 1865.

Grant appointed Parker as Commissioner of Indian Affairs from 1869 to 1871. He was the first Native American to hold the office. Parker became the chief architect of President Grant's Peace Policy in relation to the Native Americans in the West. Under his leadership, the number of military actions against Indians were reduced in the west.

[Iowa_Boy]

You have been also blessed with the power of wikipedia, google, and "cut and paste." Hmmmm, very sacred.

Originally Posted by ducky_harvey8219

what am i?

[2lineCarrandMorgan]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy

You have been also blessed with the power of wikipedia, google, and "cut and paste." Hmmmm, very sacred.

it the world of internet i am learning more about resources, believe me i never did a collage paper i do understand plagiarism and with the higher learned ppl that are helping to show the way in documenting the post to threads is helpful

although with out some of the digging that goes on ,on the web with out ppl like historian and AmigoKumeyaay lots of ppl would be less informed ..

then again some times it for entertainment, like last night mu old man said for me to look for some powwows. i was thinking how far away wondering if we were going to ditch some bills to go..i asked how far ? ...and he said you know the ones we have looked at that you find on your computer... he dose not use the computer and so far don't want to do any of the typing alto he has lot of opinions about how and what should be said on line... anyway my 2 cents..

[suzaleeny@live.com]

Greeting, New here, found you only this evening..... North Carolina and Virginia adopted one-drop rules related to their racial segregation laws, which classified all people as either white or black (essentially, all other). They classified as black any person with any black ancestry, regardless of how small. Walter Ashby Plecker, the Registrar of Virginia's Bureau of Vital Statistics, became notable for issuing orders to change birth records of individuals whose families he had decided were trying to pass as Indian to avoid being classified as black. Due to his application of the Racial Integrity Act, records of many Native American-identified people were changed without their consent, and often without their knowledge. If the are listed a a mulatto you owe a tithe Indian or not. This might be worth considering. There was no reason for my family to leave NC except they were being driven out... so the did what they could, gathered neighbors suffering the same fate and attempted a better life, my family was driven from one part of NC,that was not good enough, so they took off for Tennessee and then split it two some went to Indiana my people went to Missouri, I live in St. Louis, My Great Grandfather is Jesse Bolin married to Jemima Kennedy(Kenedy,Canady). When the left NC, they traveled with Collins... and others I am doing my research now, training as a Genealogist and am very much a first source document collector. I just found this site tonight... a lot of debate going on, no doubt important debate... I do not believe I have a stolen name, if I find out it was, I will let you know... my family fled to avoid suffering... and I am alive as a result. I have gotten my other family sides back, 14 generations on average and stopped at 26 on one.... I will be watching this debate with interest. I have an Idea.... how about a DNA project... just a thought, peace.

Originally Posted by Tom Iron Eagle

I spent some time in Southern Virginia and visited Northern North Carolina many years ago and I saw many a Saponi from Halifax to Roanoke Rapids to Elizabeth City to Suffolk and they were not Black by any means. But like many races there was a mix that could be seen. And this can be seen more in the South East and the extreme Southern West.

We must remember that all words in any language can have parallel words in another language. These words may appear to be the same depending on the many spellings and many pronuciations but they are of course different. Thus a term or word can be found to be in many places and languages at the same time. And the biggest cause of this is that Whites often used non Indigenous Words for Indigenous Words and Names for any Culture. Why else would one be able to find English Names for something in India and Africa, or French Names for something in Africa and South East Asia, and so forth. Not to mention Cultures in foreign places using their language for names in the new country such as African and other cultural words used for names in the Americas.

And like many Native American Terms and Words the name Saponi has many spellings depening on who spelled it and who pronounced it first and then continued to change it.

Perfect Example: SANTEE. This name is used for tribes in both the Plains and the South East. But they are two completely different Native American Tribes. At some point in time the Whites decided to pronouce and spell the name SANTEE the same way for both Tribes.

One can even trace the Saponi name to the following names:

Occaneechie (many spellings of this), Eno, Oconee, Ono, One & Oni (both prounounced "on nee"), and even Potoni.

We may never really know as Linguistics is like History - accurate only to point and that point is usually subjective also.

[suzaleeny@live.com]

etymology is a passion of mine, I read my new testament from a Greek translation.... I respect everything you are saying, but I have been studying history since I was 12. I do not copy other peoples work when I do my Genealogy research, document, document, document, Jesse and Jemima farm is still in my mothers family. Family and origins mean a lot to me... I would still recommend a DNA project.... my Grammar I cannot vouch for... by the way... great site, lots of intelligent points being made. I agree, there should be no gaps in a family line. Susan. you said "Why else would one be able to find English Names for something in India and Africa, or French Names for something in Africa and South East Asia" Simple answer there, British and French Colonizing.

[suzaleeny@live.com]

No need to make sport of another human, we should all be attempting to learn from one another... so here is another cut and paste. The Melungeons are a mixed-ethnic population located primarily in eastern Kentucky, southwestern Virginia, eastern Tennessee, and southern West Virginia. No one really knows when the Melungeons were first discovered, or even when they first came to America, but the first documented encounter of Melungeons by the Anglo-Saxon settlers from Europe was by Tennessee governor John Sevier in 1774. Although Melungeons themselves claimed they were of Portuguese or Turkish origin, for many years they were listed either as having indeterminate origin, or as a mixture of white, Indian, and Negro heritage. Because of their darker skin color, American census takers refused to categorize Melungeons as white, and instead recorded them as “free persons of color” or mulatto.

The use of the term “free persons of color” to categorize Melungeons had more consequences than issues of identity and origin: legally only whites were allowed to vote, attend public education, and own land — colored people were not. Thus, many Melungeon families had their lands taken away from them, and their children barred from attending "white" schools. Many also shared the fate of deported Indian tribes: many Melungeon families were forced to move to Oklahoma with the Cherokee Indians in 1834 during a forced relocation that has since come to be known as the "Trail of Tears." Although during the Civil War some Melungeons fought back by forming what came to be known as the "Melungeon Marauders," an armed band that exacted revenge on those who had taken their land, such actions only lead to even greater prejudices against them after the war. Such discriminatory practices continued into the 20th century, only diminishing with the success of the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s, which legally ended the United States’ skin-color based discriminatory practices.
My Grandmother is a Bolin, her father was a Bolin, his Father was a Bolin, his Father was a Bolin....NC. Please be fair.... we all know how the Governments treated people who's skin was not white... My family had good land and were hounded out of NC. Peace.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy

You have been also blessed with the power of wikipedia, google, and "cut and paste." Hmmmm, very sacred.