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Old 09-14-2011, 07:31 PM   #1
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Why Don't You Just Get Over It?

Rather than continuing to clutter up the thread about marrying in or out, I thought I'd start a new thread about some of the issues that many non-native people seem to either be unaware of or want to live in oblivion to them.

In the other thread one poster, Jack recommended that we get off the rez, sober up and get a job.
Quote:
When all else fails, there is always the victimhood card. Play it now...play it in 3011? 5011?
Getting your butt off the rez, getting a job and giving up booze requires real effort. Much easier to booze it up, rape and end up in jail. (and no, not all Indians do this).
I'm not going to belabour the get off the rez point but what astounded me more was the lack of knowledge that not all First Nation communities are actually on a reserve territory. My own people for one as are the rest of the 13 First Nations of the Yukon.

The fact that BC First Nations are under current treaty negotiations as the SCC ruled that the Royal Proclamation of 1763 does not apply to BC as that territory was an unknown entity back then is often overlooked when non-native folks think they "know us".

I've asked myself many times why don't they know about us in a way that isn't full of romanticism or erroneous information? I wonder why every time there is a news article in which a native person is the subject that the commentaries are full of hatred and disinformation? I also ask myself why I get asked to head into a classroom to give a lesson on Haida/Tutchone culture when there is no formal curriculum in any of our schools that doesn't romantisize us? Why don't my fellow Canadian know about the residential schools, the laws that were enacted because the government just wanted us all dead and gone?

How does one man named Duncan Campbell Scott be afforded honours and distinctions for this:
Quote:
I want to get rid of the Indian problem. I do not think as a matter of fact, that the country ought to continuously protect a class of people who are able to stand alone… Our objective is to continue until there is not a single Indian in Canada that has not been absorbed into the body politic and there is no Indian question, and no Indian Department, that is the whole object of this Bill.
150,000 Aboriginal children were taken from their parents with or without their consent because of this man. Why do our school kids read his poems and not know his darker side?

I think if I read or hear one more description of how we scalped without the acknowledgement of the speaker that here in Canada, a law still exists that pays a bounty for our scalps I may resort to doing a mean Indian woman on them.

So why don't we try and smash some of those myths, romantic ideals and stereotypes with this thread.

Let's start with this video...



My first myth buster is:

For an Aboriginal person to be considered in the tax free status they must a) live on a reserve and b) work for an Aborignal employer whose head Office is located on a Reserve territory. If an Aborignal person lives off reserve, works for an off reserve organization/employer.. we pay taxes.. lots of taxes.

Next?
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:30 AM   #2
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yaahl, this is a great thread!I often wonder why there is such a gap between the two cultures regarding education about native people all over the continent.I find that because I am non-native and married to a native man and I have native children- I seem to attract those non-natives who want answers about "those indians" I hear all of the stereotypes and wrong ideas.

No kidding about this list!
Do the Indians accept you?
How much money do they each get in their Indian checks?
You married him for the check,hugh?(ya,I actually was asked that once!)
Do they (apparently my in-laws?Lol.although it's not funny)let you live on their reservation?
Do you have Indian dresses?
Do your kids have Indian names with animal power? (good grief)

I don't think any of this is funny.I do believe that most who ask these questions really mean no harm.But yes, there is a huge lack of info out there and I personally am flabbergasted at what to say to these folks.I'm usually just speechless.

So.....How about that "big fat Indian check" that all of you get.That could be a place to start educating.

Last edited by comadre; 09-15-2011 at 07:37 AM..
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
"those indians"

WHAT????

have mercy....

Comadre..I commend you dear....I could not stand there and hold my tongue.......

I'm afraid I would educate, right then and right there...........

What is this world coming to?
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:30 AM   #4
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Here's another myth...

"You people all get free education."

In Canada here's how it works:

Sure we can apply (note here it's not automatic)
to the band for an education package but once we get it there a strict criteria for keeping it. Applying for an education package is like playing the roulette wheel... bands are allocated education dollars from the feds and each bands sets its own criteria for disbursement.

A student at their academic institution MUST maintain a 70% or better in each of their courses throughout the academic degree or diploma program. If they don't then the funding ceases for all the program. There is no appeal process. Why you ask? because there is usually a waiting list of kids waitng for a shot at going off to post secondary or trade schools.

Provincial and federal funding for non-native students do not have that criteria for keeping their loans - they just need to pass the course and if they fail one, government loans/grants won't pay for a second shot at it). Most non-scholarship grants and bursaries don't have that criteria. Some scholarships do however have a mark based criteria but there is usually an appeal process prior to the finding being stopped. ie... if a particular course's overall average was less than 70%(statistics for non-math people usually have a low class average - hence the need to author books such as Stats without Tears). Nor did non-natives have the cost of their identity taken away for obtaining a university degree.

The irony as well is that up until 1985, if any status Indian went off to university/college they had their ststus taken away. Can anyone take a guess at how many Indians actually sought to extinguish their status by seeking that "free" education? "Free education" they say? hmmm...
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #5
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Taxes:

I pay taxes, state, federal, town....I still have to file taxes *(but then everyone does right) and pay when I don't pay enough in.

HIGHER EDUCATION:

Our Tribe pays tuition expenses for Tribal members who want to go, but recently (say the last 6 years), they have really started cracking down on making sure you follow the rules.

RESERVATION BOUNDARIES:

Yeah I don't live on one. There are none here in Oklahoma.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:13 PM   #6
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Anyone know if Osage (up in Oklahoma) is considered a reservation or not? I've heard both that it is and it isn't. Back when I was growing up we were taught that it was the only reservation in Oklahoma.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:46 PM   #7
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Anyone know if Osage (up in Oklahoma) is considered a reservation or not? I've heard both that it is and it isn't. Back when I was growing up we were taught that it was the only reservation in Oklahoma.
I could be wrong, hence the need for myth busting... but didn't reservations in Oklahoma become Tribal Statistical Areas? I also recall that the Osage bought their reserve territory from the proceeds of the sale of their land in Kansas as opposed to it being set aside for them?
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:52 PM   #8
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So what about the Cherokee lands?

Oklahoma:

http://www.cherokee.org/

and Eastern Band?

http://www.cherokee-nc.com/

Are they considered "reservations", or not?
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:00 PM   #9
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don't know about back east but in Oklahoma we don't have reservations..so all natives pay taxes if they work. they have "tribal" communities but not "reservations" in the actual definition of the word. I have a tribal house but it was purchased in the town I live in. Guess I'm my own sovereign area. *L*
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neling4 View Post
So what about the Cherokee lands?

Oklahoma:

http://www.cherokee.org/

and Eastern Band?

http://www.cherokee-nc.com/

Are they considered "reservations", or not?
Best I can make out is that the Cherokee in OK are on OTSA(Oklahoma Tribal Statistical Areas). The Eastern Band as far as I can tell still has a reservation.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:33 PM   #11
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I’m in a commenting mood. But I’m too lazy to cut and paste quotes from over in the Natives Marrying Non-Natives thread. That should help keep my comments a little briefer than usual. Not arguing with anyone, just giving my own personal perspective.

RE: Being born into rather than with a culture.

That in itself is a matter of cultural worldview. To believe you’re born as a cultural blank slate doesn’t necessarily mean it stems from “a person who wants to belong but can’t.” Nor do I think it is erroneous. Different peoples see things differently. The issue of nature vs. nurture is hardly “settled.”

RE: The ability to become a self-taught Shao-lin priest

While my guess is it doesn’t work that way – one would have to ask someone in the Shao-lin religious hierarchy. There are plenty of examples in Asian as well as European religious history of people becoming recognized holy men (or women) through solitary study/meditation. Although it is the exception rather than the rule, any number of traditions have allowances for “self-study” and revelation through solitude.

RE: Busting a move in church when the hallelujahs break out

That made me laugh. Nothing important, but a funny story. Years ago I attended Easter Mass with some friends at the cathedral in St. Paul. It was only the 2nd mass I’d ever attended. Well…there was a dancer who was part of the service! While the choir was singing she came out in her white robes and did what I can only describe as interpretive dance. There was lots of arm waving, dramatic backbends, leaps, kicks and twirls! It was quite the sight! But no Catholic I’ve ever asked has ever heard of such a thing. But the (arch-?) Bishop at the time was quite “progressive.” lol

RE: White people wearing dreads and “practicing” Rastafarianism w/out having any earthly clue what a true Rasta is.

I can say the same thing about just about any religion. There are plenty of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc. who “practice” their religion (one they actually grew up in), or at least think they do. But they have no clue. While I wouldn’t criticize the way another person practices their religion, and I wouldn’t make the following statement to their face (even though it’s true): I’m better versed in Christian theology than a lot of the church-going Christians I work with. How can a person be a practicing Roman Catholic and not know that the Pope is head of their church? Believe me, I’ve met them! How many average, everyday Rastafarians actually know where their sect fits within Ethiopian Orthodoxy? Do those dread-headed Whites actually claim to be Rasta, or are their dreads simply a fashion statement? Or are their claims of being Rasta actually facetious, and what they really mean is “I smoke a lot of ganja?”


RE: History being full of people who weren’t born into a culture, but adopted it and rose to prominence/leadership in the adopted culture.

True, but in the vast majority (if not all) of cases this has been done on the adopted culture’s terms, not on the outsider’s terms. To think that you should/can be accepted into a foreign culture based on another culture’s terms is beyond arrogant, and dismissive of the culture you wish to join. It is a conqueror’s mindset and reveals the would be convert’s sense of superiority over those they wish to join.

RE: Never having seen a child born who is the reincarnation of a wannabe, or never having seen a child born who is the reincarnation of anything other than their parent’s DNA

I have never seen anyone who isn’t the reincarnation of some one. Wannabes are reincarnated after they die, just like everyone else. That is my belief and worldview. But I don’t expect others to hold the same beliefs.

Stating one’s beliefs/worldview is not the same as denigrating others’ views. That I don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus or Haile Selassie should in no way be offensive to Christians or Rastafarians. I am not offended by an atheist’s lack of belief in G-d, they should not be offended that I do. As long as no one is trying to convert the other, there should be no problems or offence that others believe differently.

+++++++++++++++++++++

And, I’m not quite done. I will finish this evening.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
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WHAT????

have mercy....

Comadre..I commend you dear....I could not stand there and hold my tongue.......

I'm afraid I would educate, right then and right there...........

What is this world coming to?
would that be with a hard left hook or a stiff right cross?! Lol!just askin.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:25 PM   #13
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but I have to admit I really want to shoot that S & W governor...and those dragons breath rounds.......
anybody wanna go to the range?
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:04 AM   #14
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I posted before I wanted to-sorry.
Yes I think you are correct trouble in saying we need to educate right then and there..Personally, I am not a very quick witted gal and I usually think about the perfect thing to say hours after the encounter is over. Sigh.
and I think that there needs to be more created opportunities to educate about Native American history and the politics and people.


Why don't we read and learn about these things in the schools by now in 2011? It is shameful that history lessons are leaving out the truth about the ugly things of history and many will never know the real stories.Maybe what is needed is a reform in the public schools concerning this matter and someone needs to start writing a great informed book they can use.

"Call it "Myths of the Native People" everyone would buy it up and it could be a factual myth busting history book."

Concerning reservation myths- Down here in the southwest, we have settlements and communities dotting our state and these small communities are not necessarily on reservation land.For instance, the Pascua Yaqui have small settlements in Tempe ,Az.( Guadalupe),Scottsdale (Pejame?) and I think the Chandler areas. Yet non native people often assume that these are illegal Mexican citizens that have moved into an already existing city.That erroneous idea could not be further from the truth.Nevermind that this tribe has a website that explains the history of these settlements, no one takes the time to read it?I once asked someone why they thought one building in Guadalupe said "Pascua Yaqui Tribal Headquarters." The response was that they thought they just had a building there.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:16 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=trouble;1486168]LOL, no honey, I'll fight,but only when it's called for...otherwise, it's words that teach, they say the tongue is the most dangerous weapon......../QUOTE]


Oh good! I am glad you feel that way!Yes the tongue is powerful. And I do believe holding it can be powerful too.I like that yaahl brought this up.I am glad we are talking about this.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:49 AM   #16
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More myth busting:

The Myth

First Nation people cannot process alcohol the same way no-native people can that's why it makes them crazy.

In 1670, Daniel Denton wrote of First Nation people and alcohol:

Quote:
They are great lovers of strong drink, yet do not care for drinking, unless they have enough to make themselves drunk.
This probably was the beginning of centuries of myth upon myth regarding alcohol abuse. Some of them are:

Myth 1: First Nations have an inborn, insatiable appetite for alcohol.

Myth 2: First Nations are hypersensitive to alcohol (cannot “hold their liquor”) and are inordinately vulnerable to addiction to alcohol.

Myth 3: First Nations are inordinately prone to violence when intoxicated.

Myth 4: These very traits produced immediate, devastating effects when alcohol was introduced to Native tribes via European contact.

Myth 5: The solutions to alcohol problems in Native communities lie in resources outside these communities (Leland, 1976; Thatcher, 2004).

What the alcohol counselors and researchers say now:

Quote:
Early “firewater myths” portraying First Nation as genetically inferior (inherently vulnerable to alcoholism) provided ideological support for the decimation and colonization of Native tribes and continue to serve that function today. The persistence and pervasiveness of the firewater myths are striking in light of the absence of definitive evidence that Native Peoples physically respond to alcohol differently than other races or possess a unique biological vulnerability to alcoholism (Schafer, 1981; Westermeyer and Baker, 1986; May, 1994; Long, et al, 2002; Thatcher, 2004).
In their book, Alcohol Problems in Native America: The Untold Story of Resistance and Recovery — The Truth about the Lie the authors discuss 12 truths which form the centre arguments of their research. It's not pretty what is happening to our people but if we can only break through the myths that surround alcohol and drug addictions, we might have programs and treatments that get us back on the road to a healthy lifestyle.
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