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-   -   This is wrong in so many ways (http://forums.powwows.com/f26/wrong-so-many-ways-69016/)

subeeds 12-16-2014 02:14 AM

This is wrong in so many ways
 
So once again treaty land gets taken away-only this time, rather than the whites taking it for themselves, they are giving it to "foreigners". Defense Bill Passes, Giving Sacred Native American Sites To Mining Company

I can't figure how to post the article like Amigo does, so you will have to read the link. Sorry.

xTekno 12-16-2014 03:01 PM

This is not too far to the east of me.

I can't believe that Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), and Arizona Republican Sen. Jeff Flake attached this rider to the must-pass government funding bill and used the defense bill as a vehicle to pass a massive public lands package.

Kudos to Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) who mounted a bid to strip the entire lands package from the bill, but failed.

xTekno 12-16-2014 03:07 PM

"You're still wards of the federal government."
 
The Arizona Republican was responding to concerns from Phil Stago of the White Mountain Apache Tribe when he made the comment that stunned people at the round-table talk.

Stago said the phrase is antiquated and ignores advances made in tribes managing their own affairs and seeking equal representation when it comes to projects proposed on land they consider sacred.

"He kind of revealed the truth - the true deep feeling of the federal government: 'Tribes, you can call yourselves sovereign nations, but when it comes down to the final test, you're not really sovereign because we still have plenary authority over you,'" Stago told The Associated Press.

U.S. Rep calls Apache 'wards of the federal government'

sophisticated_lady 12-16-2014 04:49 PM

It made me sick to my stomach when I read it days ago. I still have no words for it. Someone who had signed the online petition, said that a whole bunch of signatures had been deleted within minutes.

subeeds 12-17-2014 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophisticated_lady (Post 1613239)
It made me sick to my stomach when I read it days ago. I still have no words for it. Someone who had signed the online petition, said that a whole bunch of signatures had been deleted within minutes.

Can't say that surprises me. I posted a link to this story on my FB page a couple of days ago. An online English friend of mine was simply amazed. She was basically "are they ever going stop this?". I replied that it sure doesn't look like it.

sophisticated_lady 12-17-2014 06:32 AM

You`re right, those words were pretty clear. It`s appalling quite frankly and it saddens me that it seems like there`s nothing one can do. I wouldn`t want to have THAT follow me around for the rest of my life and I believe our actions always have consequences. Here`s hoping that hearts and minds will change.

AmigoKumeyaay 12-17-2014 07:38 AM

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Senate passed a measure authorizing the nation’s defense programs Friday, and along with it managed to give lands sacred to Native Americans to a foreign company that owns a uranium mine with Iran.

The $585 billion National Defense Authorization Act of 2015 is one of the must-pass pieces of legislation that Congress moves every year. But like they did in attaching extraneous riders to the must-pass government funding bill, lawmakers used the defense bill as a vehicle to pass a massive public lands package.

The bill sailed through on a vote of 89 to 11.

Many of the land measures were popular. But one, the Southeast Arizona Land Exchange and Conservation Act, had twice failed to win support in the House of Representatives, blocked both by conservationists and conservatives.

The deal gives a subsidiary of the Australian-English mining firm Rio Tinto 2,400 acres of the Tonto National Forest in exchange for several other parcels so it can mine a massive copper deposit.

The Iran connection comes from a uranium mine in Namibia, in which Tehran has owned a 15 percent stake since the days of the shah.

Rio Tinto, which removed Iran’s two members of the mine board in 2012, has argued that Iran gets no benefit from the property, that there is no active partnership, and that it has discussed the issue with the U.S. State Department to ensure that no sanctions against Iran are violated.

A State Department spokesperson confirmed that officials had discussed the site, but declined to say that they could assure there were no violations of sanctions.

“We are aware of the mine in question and have discussed relevant compliance issues with the company,” the spokesperson said.

The official also declined to say if, as might be expected, Iran would be able to benefit from the mine if Secretary of State John Kerry is successful in negotiations to limit the regime’s nuclear aspirations, and sanctions are lifted. “We are not going to speculate on any hypotheticals,” the official said. A Rio Tinto official also declined to speculate, but noted that under the current sanctions and Namibian law, it's impossible to buy out Iran's share or sever the tie.

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) mounted a bid to strip the entire lands package from the bill, but secured only 18 votes in his favor.

It’s not only people concerned about any benefit Iran might get who were worried about giving American forest land to a foreign firm that has such a connection.

Native Americans, particularly the Apache tribe in the area, say digging a massive mine under their ancestral lands will destroy sacred ceremonial and burial grounds.

Rio Tinto says it will work closely with the tribes to ensure their concerns are heard, and will work with the U.S. Forest Service to protect the environment.

The measure was added into the NDAA largely thanks to the efforts of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who, along with fellow Arizona Republican Sen. Jeff Flake, sees the project as an economic boon that will create 3,700 jobs over several decades.

Flake acknowledged that the deal never would have passed on its own, even as he lamented the process that got it through the Senate.

“It’s never good to see big packages with so many things in them -- that’s what we want to get away from,” Flake said. “But it’s been very difficult to move individual pieces of legislation over the last few years.”

In this case, the addition of the Arizona swap and the other land measures were never discussed in public, and were added during secret negotiations between the House and Senate Armed Services Committee. the deal was never publicly revealed until the House started work on passing the entire defense bill last week.

It will become law as soon as President Barack Obama signs it. Rio Tinto, though subsidiary Resolution Copper, will take possession of the land a year later. Although the land will then be private property and federal environmental reviews will no longer be enforceable, the company said in a statement after the measure passed that it would abide by such reviews. It also pledged to be a good neighbor:

AmigoKumeyaay 12-17-2014 07:39 AM

“Resolution Copper Mining is pleased that the Southeast Arizona Land Exchange and Conservation Act passed the House of Representatives and the Senate with strong bipartisan support. Passage of the legislation means that Resolution Copper can move forward with the development of this world-class ore body which will create approximately 3,700 jobs, generate over $60 billion in economic impact and result in almost $20 billion in state and federal tax payments,” said project director Andrew Taplin.

"There is much more work to be done before commercial mining can begin and Resolution Copper looks forward to working with all stakeholders as we continue to progress through the regulatory review process toward responsible development and operation of a world-class copper mine that will safely produce over 25 percent of the current annual demand for copper in the United States.”

Once the legislation is signed into law by President Obama, Resolution Copper will focus on the comprehensive environmental and regulatory review under NEPA, where there will be broad public consultation, government-to-government consultation with Arizona Native American tribes and a comprehensive valuation appraisal of the copper deposit as required by Congress.

Resolution Copper plans to work to expand existing partnerships and create new ones with neighboring communities and Native American Tribes. The company will endeavor to hire locally and regionally whenever possible.

The heart of the legislation is the exchange of 2,400 acres of federally owned land above the copper deposit for 5,300 acres of land owned by Resolution Copper composed of valuable recreational, conservation and culturally significant land throughout Arizona. Congressional leaders made significant improvements to the legislation to address community, environmental and tribal concerns. These changes include provisions for completion of a full Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) prior to the exchange of title, extraordinary protections for historic Apache Leap, and safe access to the Oak Flat Campground after the exchange has been completed.


Michael McAuliff covers Congress and politics for The Huffington Post. Talk to him on Facebook.

Toolbox 12-17-2014 09:52 AM

I wonder if they can do to this what the anti-KXL people are doing to stop the KXL pipeline from being laid - that is tie it up in the courts for so many years that the mining company just says screw it and move on to another project.

White Powwow Dancer 12-17-2014 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTekno (Post 1613234)
The Arizona Republican was responding to concerns from Phil Stago of the White Mountain Apache Tribe when he made the comment that stunned people at the round-table talk.

Stago said the phrase is antiquated and ignores advances made in tribes managing their own affairs and seeking equal representation when it comes to projects proposed on land they consider sacred.

"He kind of revealed the truth - the true deep feeling of the federal government: 'Tribes, you can call yourselves sovereign nations, but when it comes down to the final test, you're not really sovereign because we still have plenary authority over you,'" Stago told The Associated Press.

U.S. Rep calls Apache 'wards of the federal government'

What else these Republicans are saying next? out their dumb ***es

xTekno 12-17-2014 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Powwow Dancer (Post 1613291)
What else these Republicans are saying next? out their dumb ***es

"This is a great victory for the state of Arizona, after years of hard work" ~Sens. John McCain and Jeff Flake

"Arizona can celebrate the holiday season with a copper Christmas" ~Gosar

"I think it has a lot to do with national security," McCain said. "This mine, when it's fully operational, will supply 25 percent of America's copper supply, and that is a national security issue."

"Arizona is just one momentous step from the finish line" ~Kirkpatrick

McCain called the defense bill a victory.

"We got the Resolution Copper deal done and most of our defense stuff that we needed done, including Tomahawk missiles worth $82 million for (defense contractor) Raytheon," which has a hub in Arizona, McCain said. "We've got some helicopters manufactured out at Boeing. But most of all, this Resolution Copper will be just huge. We've been working on it for 10 years."

subeeds 12-18-2014 02:56 AM

McCain hung around Palin too long, and her stoopid rubbed off on him.

milehighsalute 12-19-2014 12:31 PM

i been keeping up with this story.....people are more concerned and outraged about whether or not iran gets a piece of the pie rather than the fact that that tribal lands were SEIZED

xTekno 12-19-2014 02:08 PM

This land is not part of the current reservation area, but taken from Apaches many years ago and now part of the U.S. Forest Service.

The land includes territory where Apaches gather medicinal plants and acorns -- a food source that has sustained the people for as long as they know. It also surrounds the Apache Leap, a summit from which trapped Apaches once jumped to their deaths rather than be killed by settlers in the late 1800s.

“Since time immemorial people have gone there. That’s part of our ancestral homeland," Terry Rambler, the chairman of the San Carlos Apache Tribe said, referring to the overall area in question. "We’ve had dancers in that area forever -- sunrise dancers -- and coming-of-age ceremonies for our young girls that become women. They’ll seal that off. They’ll seal us off from the acorn grounds, and the medicinal plants in the area, and our prayer areas.”

There are supposed to be two areas excluded from mining, including Apache Leap, but the bill specifies Resolution Copper can get permission in just 30 or 90 days to drill among the oaks.

Zeke 12-20-2014 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTekno (Post 1613234)

"He kind of revealed the truth - the true deep feeling of the federal government: 'Tribes, you can call yourselves sovereign nations, but when it comes down to the final test, you're not really sovereign because we still have plenary authority over you,'" Stago told The Associated Press.

U.S. Rep calls Apache 'wards of the federal government'

The concept of limited sovereignty has always been an oxymoron.

As simply as it can be put, whether we like it or not, Stago is RIGHT.

"Reservations" and/or grounds under the Forest Service are Federal Reserve Land, not "ours."

That's just life.

Knowing this -- and operating in a manner not tied to limiting thoughts related to such things -- doesn't make me an elitist, assimilist or an Apple, it makes me a realist.

If you don't own the land outright, it's not yours. And, in this country, even land you own can be annexed with serious enough need: you just have to be paid current value for it.

This isn't worth fighting over or worrying about.

Do I say this because I find it pleasing? No.

But such things shouldn't be new to anyone. In fact, they should be expected. This is the reservation system. Our social adherence to it due to an inability to socially grow and evolve is the problem.

Nobody makes us remain on reservations.

AmigoKumeyaay 12-20-2014 02:02 PM

When i was visiting a Navajo family, they told me all they REALLY have is Grazing Rights, nothing else.

Their vast ancestral lands are held in Federal Trust. Good thing is they don't pay Property Tax, but that is simple evidence that they don't own any of it.

Yet, being Native-American is a "Federally-protected activity" . At least, that is the charge we file when Natives have their Civil Rights violated.

Jack Anderson 08-07-2015 03:05 AM

They continue to steal daily. Land, money, minerals, livestock, timber, etc., etc., etc., oh and they tear your lives apart with quantum requirements by separating families, so better throw blood in there too.

jack2011 08-23-2015 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subeeds (Post 1613254)
She was basically "are they ever going stop this?".


Don't think so. $$$$$$$$$$ to be made.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Anderson (Post 1620179)
They continue to steal daily. Land

An activity homo sapiens happens to be really good at....plenty of practice down the millennia. The land remains as always....(sometimes the culture/civilization doesn't).


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