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Old 06-12-2012, 07:15 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Like casinos?
Uhh...yeah...my addiction of choice. No, I can walk away at any time. Really! I just don't want to right now.

And in all honesty, getting rid of White Clay liquor stores won't solve the problem. Even in the most isolated native villages in Alaska, they find a way to smuggle in liquor and bottles sell for hundreds of dollars.
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Last edited by wyo_rose; 01-13-2013 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: Deleted the comment about heroin...what do I know about heroin???
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo_rose View Post
Uhh...yeah...my addiction of choice. No, I can walk away at any time. Really! I just don't want to right now.

And in all honesty, getting rid of White Clay liquor stores won't solve the problem. Even in the most isolated native villages in Alaska, they find a way to smuggle in liquor and bottles sell for hundreds of dollars.

But even with heroin, you have a lot more addicts when theres a free flowing supply, than when its restricted.
Definitely won't solve, but would cut down on the epidemic. I think the one thing that everyone keeps missing/not seeing/over looking/refusing to look at is, as with everything else, you have to follow the money, and that's the bottom line. Personal accountability means nothing in the face of a government's 5.6 BILLION dollar a year industry. The store owners make $ off of the addiction/disease of the Lakota, (that is plain and simple profiting on the weakness of others, and is not different than some scum bag scamming hundreds and or thousands from elderly folks. Wrong is still Wrong, and immoral is still immoral) as do the distributors, the brewery, the corporation, and the US Government whose 5.6 Billion dollar a year revenue comes from the taxation of liquor sales. No one is gonna walk away from that for a few thousand NDN's who can't control their drinking.

Incidentally did anyone know that about the time they started drilling for Uranium, in the Black Hills is when the first 2 bars were licensed to operated in White Clay, later to be called Whiteclay?

In addition I think Casinos are immoral and as well, another entity in which the local, state and federal Government get their claws into and individuals and yes even tribes profit off of the illness of others. I realize it's just entertainment for most people, but it's the ultimate carnival game, the house always wins, so what you pulled 10G's out of there one night, it pulled in a cool Mill. I don't mind giving you a dollar if someone else is giving me a C note.

Last edited by rezrazed; 06-12-2012 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:04 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezrazed View Post
Incidentally did anyone know that about the time they started drilling for Uranium, in the Black Hills is when the first 2 bars were licensed to operated in White Clay, later to be called Whiteclay?
For the ones who likes to know more about Uranium in Black Hills, take a look at this page I made:
http://my-pages.net/alerteuranium/di...ry=Black+Hills

Here are quite a few links to check out...
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:53 AM   #84
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Ever since the white man brought his poison to our lands and our people, he has found new and inventive ways of using its evil upon our culture and our tribes. Isn't this obvious? Do we really need a history lesson to teach us over and over again, how alcohol has poisoned our brothers and sisters? I cannot see how we as a people can ignore the obvious. I say sue the company and let them wallow in their shame.........


horse has spoken........
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:02 AM   #85
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Oh geez, more "poor me" drivel.

At this point WE own our failures.

To believe otherwise is to say we're pets.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:09 PM   #86
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Is anybody offering ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS here?

Alcohol is ILLEGAL on that Rez, by law on that Rez

It does not surprise me that addicts are going over to the White Clay liquor stores.

It does not surprise me that people SMUGGLE that White Clay alcohol back onto the Rez


Nor should it be a surprise that RESPONSIBLE leaders have filed the lawsuit, so by proxy they can enforce the prohibition of alcohol coming onto their Rez.

Its not just the drinking, its the violence and neglect that result from it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:59 PM   #87
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I see many interesting replies to the OP, but see no real solutions to the problems faced by our people with regards to this poison. I don't understand and never will understand this idea "we" are at fault for our own weaknesses. I strongly disagree with that. It wasn't our culture which brought this poison into our lands. If any fault lay with our culture, its that we don't take the responsibility to end its use among our young and old natives. Its true, no one can force upon another their views about alcohol, but we can make every attempt to make changes through how our children are raised. If they do not get educated about the dangers of alcohol abuse from an early age, they too may become victims of it. These beer companies know precisely what they are doing, They have been doing this nonsense for many decades now, Even centuries at this point. They know full well, they are in this for profit, What's a few Indians anyway to these idiots. All they care about is the bottom line and that bottom line doesn't include our health, welfare and well being. If you are a NA and drink alcohol, know this: you are at great risk for loosing your life one day from alcoholism. Not to mention the harm you may cause your family, friends and tribe. I say these beer companies should pack up, leave and never come back with their evil spirits...........
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #88
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Alcohol abuse among NA's is staggering. The chances of becoming a victim of it are very high. Especially for those that have no where to go. I can think of no greater way to kill the spirit of a man then to drink this poison. Its true that those that do drink, unless they can admit they have a problem first, they will never recover from it. That is the first step in fighting alcoholism. Admitting you have a problem. The second step is to find people who are also recovering and listen to them. Their stories may actually sound familiar. They may be entirely different, but one thing is for sure, you will not be alone in your recovery process. NA's are the strongest people on this planet. We must be. We are still here and going strong, but we do have our moments of weakness. Alcohol is flat out wrong period, but I cannot tell any native what to do. They must learn for themselves and hopefully they will see the truth. The beer companies don't care about all this stuff. All they care about as I stated above, is the bottom line. And "we" are not a part of that bottom line except for all the money wasted on the actual products themselves.

As another native stated above, alcoholism can lead to other abuses. Like drugs and domestic violence. Which run high among the people. If you know anyone that suffers from alcoholism, don't quit on them. Try and help them and seek help for them. Never quit on them. Help them find a new spirit. One friendly to their needs. Alcohol is evil to all NA's. Think about the history of it and what it did to our ancestors........

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Old 01-10-2013, 11:36 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete walkswithhorse View Post
I don't understand and never will understand this idea "we" are at fault for our own weaknesses....If any fault lay with our culture, its that we don't take the responsibility to end its use among our young and old natives.
If you truly believed the latter you'd understand the former.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:40 AM   #90
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I am from a generation that grew up watching NA's portrayed mostly by white people in movies. Many movies did use real NA's, but with no speaking parts. I remember one such movie in which a Chief is a guest at some sort of mixed relations type ordeal. It was a John Wayne movie. So here's the Chief sitting proudly at the table with Wayne's character and the others actors, drinking as if there were no tomorrow.
Well he drank so much, he passes out. Okay, its a movie and it was made back in the 60's. However, to me, in my mind, this best represents the stereotype we see today of many NA's who are addicted to this poison. If any NA doubts the statistics about alcoholism. they ought to get informed. Many NA's have serious troubles. Not only with alcoholism, but spousal abuse and illegal drugs as well as petty crimes to support their habits. Maybe its me, but I am very sympathetic to our culture and feel we need to deal with this before we lose more natives to this poison. Its no secret, many tribal leaders struggle with this issue on almost all the reservations in this country. So much so that they resort to doing whatever it takes to deal with the problems before they get out of hand. Which in many instances, it has.


Alcoholism is very real and it affects many tribes and many nations. I cannot see how we can choose to ignore it any longer. Especially when we see the suicide rates we see among our young natives. Am I the only one who sees this?


horse
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:36 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete walkswithhorse View Post
Alcoholism is very real and it affects many tribes and many nations. I cannot see how we can choose to ignore it any longer. Especially when we see the suicide rates we see among our young natives. Am I the only one who sees this?


horse
You may be the only one who sees alcoholism as a cause and not a symptom.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:06 AM   #92
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Much of the drinking-related violence and sexual assaults is toward women and children.

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Disorders are on the rise, children born with these conditions need special care, often for life.

The tribal government outlawed alcohol on that rez to prevent such conditions, yet now the tribe must foot the bill and provide care and services for special needs children.



This is not about WHO is right, rather, WHAT is right.

Whiteclay alcohol sales are by design an operation to circumvent the laws on the Pine Ridge Reservation.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:20 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
Whiteclay alcohol sales are, by design, an operation to circumvent the laws on the Pine Ridge Reservation.
I think that hits the nail on the head!
(added commas to help me understand it better)

As far as alcoholism goes, there have been volumes written about it. In the end, it's the individual, their personal values, and what they value.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:23 AM   #94
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I don't get why people still blame the manufacturers for the the problem. The issue lies with the individual and the predatory retailers (the White Clay stores). The retailers know that the people from Pine Ridge can't legally drink on the rez so they set themselves up outside to provide a place where they can legally purchase as much as they want. Although there is no place for them to legally drink in White Clay. Should there be 4 liquor licenses in White Clay, NO.

One of the biggest underlying issues is the level of poverty in any community. I grew up in the city, which one I'm not saying, alcoholism and spousal and child abuse and neglect were rampant. The only differences are that alcohol is legal in the city and we HAD a decently staffed police department. In sum if you create jobs there then people would begin to shift away from alcohol and White Clay problem drops to one store.

Simply shutting down White Clay isn't going to stop the alcoholism. People who want the booze are just going to DRIVE down the road to the next town that sells it and buy it. There will be higher incidences of drunk driving, accidents and deaths. Also that will just create a gray market for booze. You see not everyone who goes to White Clay drives or has a car and valid license so those that do will do runs to the next town and then resale and up-charge for the booze. That means less money in the pockets of the alcoholics for legitimate things like their electric or food bills.

The alcoholism is a symptom of the poorest economy in the country and of a break down in tradition. Fix the economy and the rest will begin to fall back into place. Invest in wind power, maybe?
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:21 PM   #95
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I recently heard something on the news about women being more prone to diseases that are triggered by use of alcohol and also more prone to binge drinking. Along with FAS for pregnant women, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, autoimmune liver disease, fatty liver disease and alcoholic liver disease, brain damage from alcohol toxicity and many other conditions can be triggered by the use of alcohol by people with a genetic predisposition to these conditions. The liver is central to immune response. It is hard for younger people to understand this. Men do not have as much trouble with it, which makes the problem worse, they see the guys do it. For autoimmune liver and systemic disease, 90% of people who get it are women. And women tend to be on the receiving side of abuse from alcoholics, not to say it can't be the other way around.

I think the issue is different for different people, some people have real problems with cravings for alcohol, maybe due to how your body metabolizes sugars and carbohydrates. My family has a hereditary glycogen storage disorder, a metabolic disorder. Everyone's body is different. Its not always simply just a matter of will power, its a matter of education, of your physical makeup, maturity, and how much you care about yourself and your future self.

Of course the stores are set up to make money off Pine Ridge. Isn't this the American way? After all, there should be no regulations, no accountability for business owners, just the free market being free... *sarcasm* I think they should raise the drinking age to 50, because you are supposed to be mature to drink.

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Old 01-13-2013, 03:44 PM   #96
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Community Council Sets Standards

http://northbaltimore.patch.com/arti...ctions-dropped

Controversial Hampden Liquor Store Wants Restrictions Dropped

The owners of Red Fish Liquors want the Baltimore Board of Liquor Commissioners to drop restrictions on its liquor license.

By Adam Bednar Email the author May 21, 2012


A controversial Hampden liquor store is trying to have restrictions in its license removed, despite community opposition.

Red Fish Liquors, located at 4001 Falls Road, is scheduled to go before the Baltimore Board of Liquor Commissioners on Thursday. The restrictions include regulating the size of liquor bottles it can sell.

"They’re going to try to get all the restrictions removed so they can be cheap booze merchants," said George Peters, a Hampden Community Council board member.

The store was granted a license in November 2009, despite the objections of the Hampden Community Council and Hampden Village Merchants Association, who argued there were already enough liquor stores in the community.

The board granted the store a license, but as a compromise prevented the store from having Keno at the store, and banned the sale of liquor bottles less than a pint in size and individual beers—other than 22 ounce bottles that have to cost at least $4.

However, the community contested the renewal of the license a year later because the store—then owned by Kay Lee and Vincent Cox—had violated those terms by selling prohibited items such as 40-ounce beers for $3.50, according to liquor license records.

At that time the liquor board called for a public hearing in April 2010 and sided with the community, and suspended the store’s license for six months.

But in June 2010, the board ruled that the store could reopen when a transfer was complete to the new license holders, Susan Rhee and Boksun Lee, who currently own the store.

The Hampden Community Council filed a lawsuit in Circuit Court to overturn the liquor board’s decision to transfer the license to the new owners, but it was dismissed.

A reporter tried to reach Rhee for comment on this story. When Rhee was reached via her cell phone, she said she wasn’t able to discuss the matter and to call back later.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:06 PM   #97
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Inner-city councils are fighting cheap alcohol sales.


Whiteclay is like Wounded Knee Massacre repeating in slow motion
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:29 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
Inner-city councils are fighting cheap alcohol sales.


Whiteclay is like Wounded Knee Massacre repeating in slow motion
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Except our own behavior plays the part of the calvary.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:40 PM   #99
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i kinda agree with BOTH sides......great conversation
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:46 AM   #100
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I suppose one liners are okay for some. Me. I feel the need to explain my thoughts a little more rather then try and sum it all up with cute little quips and simple rhetoric. Alcohol is bad medicine for Native American's. The statistics back this claim up. Alcoholism is a serious issue with all human beings. Yet, our culture seems to be grossly afflicted by it. Look at the Eskimo culture. Look at the statistics. Many of which clearly demonstrate a culture in serious decline. Alcohol is merely a stepping stone to far more harmful drugs and far more greater problems like spousal abuse. Yet, many just act oblivious to its deleterious affects. Even ignorant. Its bad enough that our ancestors were duped into taking this bad medicine, now we must deal with present day tribes and nations, all with serious issues related to and directly stemming from alcohol. This idea its a personal decision is a fallacy. Sure, I can go to the bar and drink a beer and leave. Or I can choose to stay and drink until I am unconscious. Either way, for the typical NA, its bad medicine. Which is why we suffer the most from it and have been since it first made its appearance with the Conquistadors over five hundred years ago. If you drink alcohol, that is your business. When you go into these stores and buy the product, you are doing precisely what they want. Its an addiction supported by these so called beer stores. Many located literally within feet of the res. I think they should not be allowed to sell it anywhere near the res. That's, of course, my opinion.........


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