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Old 01-27-2013, 03:27 AM   #161
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I think that if we don't take responsibility for our own actions then nothing will ever be "solved" And in spite of everyone claiming "sovereignty",we are really just wards of The U.S. Government.
Now I see why we got along so well in a professional environment.

As for the query of "who will intercede," I'll make this as simple as I can, I am not my metaphorical brother's keeper. Every dollar spent trying to keep those who desire to drink from drinking is a dollar taken from helping those who to desire to learn from learning.

I did not know my respected friend Wardancer when he consumed alcohol. I am pleased to know him, now. I do not know what triggered his desire to cease consuming alcohol but I can surmise this much: I bet it started with "I don't think I want to do this, anymore."

That's what initiates the cycle break, not anything we can do externally.

Sum? Until that happens, 'ef 'em.

And no, I am not some elitist a-s-s. My weight, for example, has fluctuated between 265 and 220 during the past ten years. (I am 240, now.) I have my demons and weaknesses. I fight them, every day, to try and be a better person and father.

But here's the key: I fight them. I love, for example, horrid Long John Silver's. But I fight it.

Me litigating LJS for existing outside the border of my rez fixes nothing. Any failures are on me.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:16 PM   #162
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Now I see why we got along so well in a professional environment.

As for the query of "who will intercede," I'll make this as simple as I can, I am not my metaphorical brother's keeper. Every dollar spent trying to keep those who desire to drink from drinking is a dollar taken from helping those who to desire to learn from learning.

I did not know my respected friend Wardancer when he consumed alcohol. I am pleased to know him, now. I do not know what triggered his desire to cease consuming alcohol but I can surmise this much: I bet it started with "I don't think I want to do this, anymore."

That's what initiates the cycle break, not anything we can do externally.

Sum? Until that happens, 'ef 'em.

And no, I am not some elitist a-s-s. My weight, for example, has fluctuated between 265 and 220 during the past ten years. (I am 240, now.) I have my demons and weaknesses. I fight them, every day, to try and be a better person and father.

But here's the key: I fight them. I love, for example, horrid Long John Silver's. But I fight it.

Me litigating LJS for existing outside the border of my rez fixes nothing. Any failures are on me.
My boyfriend says, why do people drink, cuz they want to, cuz they can

Why do they quit? cuz they want to, cuz they believe they can

They've got to get sober, or soberer, usually to get a moment of clarity you describe, to say, I've had enough. Usually jail or rehab sparks that. These things cost. How do you propose it should be paid for?

Also, even if an alcoholic quits, they usually face long term health problems that are not only costly, but may be terminal. There are cancers, gi problems and bleeds, liver damage and transplant. This is especially true for diabetics who drink, who face stronger urges for the sugar in alcohol too.

Right now, our dollars pay for the million dollar transplant, and often, even after six months sober and a new liver, they go back to drinking. That is a liver that could have gone to a young person with cancer, or someone else that respects it. Everyone will eventually lose health care due to soaring costs if this doesn't get dealt with another way.

I don't advocate irresponsibility, I advocate both parties taking responsibility. A temporary ban, tribal leadership stepping up during this time, and asking families to step up and get their loved ones help, which should be funded somewhat if not all by the beer companies, and real help, medical help. There is medicine like antabuse, and other things to help with withdrawal and alcohol related health issues. Long term, a separate tax or fee payable to the tribe should be assessed on a per drink basis for anything sold within 50 miles or whatever deemed appropriate. The funds should be sent to tribal government and used to create a dry out program. Just doing nothing or telling people they are responsible solves nothing, and makes things worse. Alcoholics are selfish and irresponsible and will only change if there is no other option generally.

We have bad behavior charges here, meaning if someone is drunk and being horrible, you can call and get them thrown in jail, at least for the night. It prevents a lot of problems. Then in the morning, the judge can try to get the person help or influence the situation. It has saved many women and children a bad beating or worse and probably some suicides and drunk driving deaths.

Indians don't have the market on alcoholism or irresponsibility. I don't believe this weakness to be traditional for humans, everything is motivated by love or fear, alcoholism is motivated by fear, it is cowardly, even if it is simply fear of withdrawal, and that needs to be addressed, medically and spiritually.

I think all the rich tobacco and alcohol companies should foot the bill for the problems they cause medically because there products are toxic and highly addicting. Sugar is not. Hot coffee is an issue because they don't have to make it scalding hot at a fast food place, much hotter than an average coffee maker. I think the coffee maker people screwed up there though, a poor design issue.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:48 PM   #163
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Why should anyone intercede ? Survival of the fittest. Simple !

No one interceded for me. I'm an alcoholic....20+ years sober.....nobody held my hand , I quit on my own.
I give you credit for that. Not easy, and its a testament of your will.
I've just seen helping ppl work (or could work). I've seen it not work too. But, the fact that it does work or the possibility of it makes me lean that way. Why not support it? You'd still be sitting at your computer living your life. The unity of voices has a quality of its own.
Survival of the fittest: I think you can see complementing and interdependence as well. Its just how you look at it. Survival of the fittest is not a rule, just what you look at. Its just a myopic model of the have vs the have-not. I think the have-nots could use a helping hand.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:52 PM   #164
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I think the have-nots could use a helping hand.
Not if they have-not by choice.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:40 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
Why should anyone intercede ? Survival of the fittest. Simple !
If not for compassion's sake, for the fact that an alcoholic's life can having meaning and import--say they are the only one with the code to stop an armed nuclear bomb or later find a cure for cancer or achieve world peace--you never know what someone's future holds. That alcoholic you wrote off might get sober and save your life or someone you love. They may donate an organ or bone marrow and help a child become fully functional. And if not for that, for the millions of dollars spent on these people to slowly suffer and die and make everyone around them miserable while doing it. You could say the same survival of the fittest about mentally challenged kids, people with cancer or heart disease, or the elderly. I know you don't mean that, but survival of the fittest is a bad mantra.

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No one interceded for me. I'm an alcoholic....20+ years sober.....nobody held my hand , I quit on my own.
If you count "on your own" as being with the support of a non-alcoholic society, people who praise you for your quitting, you can include me here, and laws that support sobriety. In other words, if the whole world was drunk, and it does seem like that at times, and drunkeness was revered and expected, if it was illegal not to be drunk, then none of us would likely be sober.

Your decision to quit is yours alone and that is the only way to quit, and your backbone to stick with it is yours alone, but you do get some support. we all do, even nonalcoholics, however distant. Heck, looking at and being around drunk people can keep you sober!
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:41 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
As for the query of "who will intercede," I'll make this as simple as I can, I am not my metaphorical brother's keeper. Every dollar spent trying to keep those who desire to drink from drinking is a dollar taken from helping those who to desire to learn from learning.
Well, I think you are saying the same thing just in another way then. Yes, educate, prevention, community resolve. Like I said before, I'm not a big fan of the lawsuit, but I think supporting the community to address the issue is the important thing for me to work towards resolution. Maybe methodology is disagreeable, or how to use funds, but we should support each other. And it doesn't mean we get it right off the bat. It means we try together.
I am less apt to do something myself, but if I do it with ppl, then there is a substance there in unity. Although I cannot see it, although I cannot touch it, there is a power.
Effing, the drunks -- ok, not much to like about them, but you do realize there are more drunks to come if all we do is say "eff you," If only the power of alienation would make them change their ways. I just feel unity and support is more powerful.
I think muskrat_skull has some very good ideas that can arm a community against this vice. Why not start with saying this is a problem, and empower ppl by saying we can do something about it, instead of waiting for ppl to be responsible?
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When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it—always.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:34 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by muskrat_skull View Post
If not for compassion's sake, for the fact that an alcoholic's life can having meaning and import--say they are the only one with the code to stop an armed nuclear bomb or later find a cure for cancer or achieve world peace--you never know what someone's future holds. That alcoholic you wrote off might get sober and save your life or someone you love. They may donate an organ or bone marrow and help a child become fully functional. And if not for that, for the millions of dollars spent on these people to slowly suffer and die and make everyone around them miserable while doing it. You could say the same survival of the fittest about mentally challenged kids, people with cancer or heart disease, or the elderly. I know you don't mean that, but survival of the fittest is a bad mantra.


If you count "on your own" as being with the support of a non-alcoholic society, people who praise you for your quitting, you can include me here, and laws that support sobriety. In other words, if the whole world was drunk, and it does seem like that at times, and drunkeness was revered and expected, if it was illegal not to be drunk, then none of us would likely be sober.

Your decision to quit is yours alone and that is the only way to quit, and your backbone to stick with it is yours alone, but you do get some support. we all do, even nonalcoholics, however distant. Heck, looking at and being around drunk people can keep you sober!

Survival of the fittest has always been natures way. No matter what technology brings us , in the end whoever is the fittest will still be around and everyone else loses! It may be bad mantra , but sadly it's the truth.


My decision to quit WAS my decision. Yes I had the support of all my drunk friends offering me drinks ! All my "buddies". Calling me up , inviting me out ! They were all standing around waiting for me to fall off the wagon ! My ex that told me I'd be just like my Dad...who died an alcoholic....sure I had lots of help.....I told them all where to go ! No I quit on my own , my own will. No 12 step program , no support system , no nothing , except my own decision to not be drunk anymore. Period.
And furthermore I didn't ask for any help and most importantly I didn't blame anyone but myself for my decisions!
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





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Old 01-27-2013, 08:36 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by muskrat_skull View Post
If not for compassion's sake, for the fact that an alcoholic's life can having meaning and import--say they are the only one with the code to stop an armed nuclear bomb or later find a cure for cancer or achieve world peace--you never know what someone's future holds. That alcoholic you wrote off might get sober and save your life or someone you love. They may donate an organ or bone marrow and help a child become fully functional. And if not for that, for the millions of dollars spent on these people to slowly suffer and die and make everyone around them miserable while doing it. You could say the same survival of the fittest about mentally challenged kids, people with cancer or heart disease, or the elderly. I know you don't mean that, but survival of the fittest is a bad mantra.


If you count "on your own" as being with the support of a non-alcoholic society, people who praise you for your quitting, you can include me here, and laws that support sobriety. In other words, if the whole world was drunk, and it does seem like that at times, and drunkeness was revered and expected, if it was illegal not to be drunk, then none of us would likely be sober.

Your decision to quit is yours alone and that is the only way to quit, and your backbone to stick with it is yours alone, but you do get some support. we all do, even nonalcoholics, however distant. Heck, looking at and being around drunk people can keep you sober!
I didn't write them off , they wrote themselves off !
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:13 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by reocurringdream View Post
Well, I think you are saying the same thing just in another way then. Yes, educate, prevention, community resolve. Like I said before, I'm not a big fan of the lawsuit, but I think supporting the community to address the issue is the important thing for me to work towards resolution. Maybe methodology is disagreeable, or how to use funds, but we should support each other. And it doesn't mean we get it right off the bat. It means we try together.
I am less apt to do something myself, but if I do it with ppl, then there is a substance there in unity. Although I cannot see it, although I cannot touch it, there is a power.
Effing, the drunks -- ok, not much to like about them, but you do realize there are more drunks to come if all we do is say "eff you," If only the power of alienation would make them change their ways. I just feel unity and support is more powerful.
I think muskrat_skull has some very good ideas that can arm a community against this vice. Why not start with saying this is a problem, and empower ppl by saying we can do something about it, instead of waiting for ppl to be responsible?
I'm not sure if I'm reading this right. Help me out.

Are you implying this problematic issue has never been addressed and we 'need to start with saying'??????

Where in the 'F' do you get off, as an outsider of our race, to say we haven't addressed this issue? You make it sound like we are lost children and need an 'outsider' to tell us 'we need to start'. I'm not sure you have any validity in what you write. You sound like a social worker. Have you walked in the communities where these problems persist and offer a meal, a cup of coffee, a coat, a kind word? Before you ask, I have. I've done it with alcoholics, with heroin addicts, with people down on their luck. I've opened my doors to these people.

Do you remember those two young men murdered in White Clay in the late 90's? We you there supporting the public protests? I was.

You, my asian friend, write like many of the complexion challenged people who come on here and try to tell us our problems and how to correct them.

You need to watch more Dr. Oz in the afternoon.
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


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Old 01-28-2013, 06:40 PM   #170
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I'm not sure if I'm reading this right. Help me out.

Are you implying this problematic issue has never been addressed and we 'need to start with saying'??????

Where in the 'F' do you get off, as an outsider of our race, to say we haven't addressed this issue? You make it sound like we are lost children and need an 'outsider' to tell us 'we need to start'. I'm not sure you have any validity in what you write. You sound like a social worker. Have you walked in the communities where these problems persist and offer a meal, a cup of coffee, a coat, a kind word? Before you ask, I have. I've done it with alcoholics, with heroin addicts, with people down on their luck. I've opened my doors to these people.

Do you remember those two young men murdered in White Clay in the late 90's? We you there supporting the public protests? I was.

You, my asian friend, write like many of the complexion challenged people who come on here and try to tell us our problems and how to correct them.

You need to watch more Dr. Oz in the afternoon.
No, that’s not what I mean. I'm responding to the idea of 'ef em', not that ppl are blind to the issue.
I understand what you are saying. It’s right for you to challenge me. I was wondering when the right challenge would come. But I want to make this clear. I am not an outsider to OUR race. How can I be? I am your race. Let’s not allow arbitrary lines (borders) divide our ppl, anywhere, anymore. If you choose your identity, and the world perceives you as such, and you walk the same path as one another, then we are beyond borders, and a common ppl.
I respect that you have opened your doors to addicts. I see, I see, you have a big heart. I’m not going claim to know the issues so intimately as you exemplified in White Clay. No, I can’t say that. But, yes, I have spent time in the Alaskan community with drunks. Interestingly, the drunks did most of the talking while my wife and I listened to their stories of past atrocities. And I’m not sure how we came to talk of such things, I think we were talking of someone in common and it moved from there, but I remember a distinct feeling of seeing myself in the mirror. That it could be me, just as easily if I were born in a different set of borders. And, it broke my heart. Not out of some sappy sympathy, but because I know where we come from. We are a proud ppl, and some way or another these drunks couldn’t feel or see that. They were cut-off in spiritual lineage. And that sadness is mine, not just theirs. Although I didn’t know, I lived a privileged life comparatively, and I fed my ego without care. It saddened me that I too am responsible. That I fed a system that came to rob them of this spiritual lineage. If it seems that I’m telling you what your problems are and how to correct them. You are right, that would be wrong of me. But, I’m coming to correct myself.
I have talked with and stood up for drunks being harassed by cops. Not to prove I'm so brave, but that I chose these drunks over watching the cops harass them. My clothes and the way I carried myself did not identify me with the drunks, so I could have simply walked away. But I couldn’t live with the thought that the white man comes and de-masculinates, and de-humanizes them while I stood by. Now, my story does travel a long way from asia, but it was moving for me to come upon the realization that I am meeting my ppl. I also go down to Mexico and stay there for lengths of time amongst the Mayans, and there too I see that same truth. I see it in the symbols, in the culture, in the language, and of course in the face.
I admit the struggles are different, but not that different. Contrary to Russell Means, Corea was a reservation long before the white man even came here. We’ve lost countries of land and ppl, and fought countless wars, only to become a tributary state, and we are “occupied” even today. We’re just a buffer zone of an impending war. The only reason we have a country is to cement the division of our land & ppl. And that was not even decided by us, but by the white man. We were fated to be slaves, literally, for the rebuilding of Japan, but the unity of our ppl overthrew that system in favor of self-determination. Our only saving grace was the geopolitical position, and the unity (albeit half & half) of our ppl. Our response to being dominated comes down to one main thing. That we would not be the slaves of other ppl, but that we would be slaves to our own. THAT is our unity. And I tell you, today, even divided, we have become strong.
If my lands and ppl were in the Western hemisphere, then I would be just like you. Exactly. No doubt. I’m not here to be a social worker. I’m here as a carrier of the knowledge of our struggle and to extend the unity that I have benefitted from, to your ppl—our ppl. Unfortunately, it doesn’t come so easily as a handshake, as there are so many “white” lies, and beware many of our ppl have lost their ways. So I don’t vouch for the face. I cannot tell you that another looking like me is to be trusted. But, I vouch for our blood. If we unite our knowledges, history and ppl & let our ppl know, the latent unity will arise. They simply do not see it. They do not learn it. They are ignorant of the “all of us.”
For 400yrs, we’ve been broken up into little pieces, diluted of our strength. Let’s learn the error of our past ways, and arm ourselves with knowledge and understanding. That the true path in the liberation of the “all of us” is summed up in one idea – OUR PEOPLE.


I appreciate you hearing my cry, Joe’s dad.


Now, I got to get back. Dr. Oz is coming on. LOL, kidding, kidding…
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When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it—always.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:32 PM   #171
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To the Reoccuring Dreamer:

So you design high fashion handbags. You are a doctor. You have time to get on powwows. You actually talked to and are champion to drunks. You watch Dr. Oz and tell others to. You come on here and diss our people and equate KOREA (yes it is spelled in the Americas with a K) and you are equating your Asian experience with the American Indian experience?

You must think we will believe anything. Now if you were a French model, I might believe that....
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:21 PM   #172
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Survival of the fittest has always been natures way. No matter what technology brings us , in the end whoever is the fittest will still be around and everyone else loses! It may be bad mantra , but sadly it's the truth.


My decision to quit WAS my decision. Yes I had the support of all my drunk friends offering me drinks ! All my "buddies". Calling me up , inviting me out ! They were all standing around waiting for me to fall off the wagon ! My ex that told me I'd be just like my Dad...who died an alcoholic....sure I had lots of help.....I told them all where to go ! No I quit on my own , my own will. No 12 step program , no support system , no nothing , except my own decision to not be drunk anymore. Period.
And furthermore I didn't ask for any help and most importantly I didn't blame anyone but myself for my decisions!
Survival of the fittest is otherwise known as "social Darwinism" which was a key part of the Nazi party's world view. It's roots began in the Victorian era in white society, where certain ethnic groups were deemed less intelligent because not as many mustard seeds could fit in their skulls as opposed to white skulls or for a variety of physical characteristics. the resulting data supporting a racial hierarchy which fueled white supremacy was debunked ... for a while.

http://deliriumliberty.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/601/ This is good reading on Samuel Morton.



It justified the genocide of the jews, the disabled, the elderly, and anyone else who was not deemed as "fit" enough and not white enough.

It also was a driving force behind Manifest Destiny and the genocide of American Indians, for it was the self-perceived "fitness" of the whites, what they saw as a moral and technological "fitness", that compelled the Manifest Destiny argument, and allowed the idea to "ring true" in the hearts of self-pitying yet self-agrandizing white settlers. Indian schools were developed to make Indians "fit" for society, to help them survive in the dog-eat-dog white world. While many if not most whites would have just as soon followed your survival of the fittest rule and let them just die out as "conquered people"--sorry you lose. This was seen as a more enlightened pov compared to Indian philosophies and spirituality of family and community and service to others.

Survival of the fittest is the ultimate justification for all genocide and greed in the world. It is an ugly, hateful view of the world and others. It is an excuse for and expression of selfishness and greed. And it is not true from a scientific pov, so it doesn't put you in touch with nature or anything else but other like-minded people to pat on the back before they stab yours. The true rule is the survival of the symbiotic.

It is a world view that most religions diametrically oppose, it is the embodiment of a need for religion. It is neither enlightened or folksy and down to earth. It is giving up on the world and on others. It is saying, that no one ever gives to me, ever helps anyone, that you are alone and isolated, none of us are equal, we are all competitors with winners and losers, someone is always better than someone else, usually the person who is asserting the pov, it is a tool of oppression and dominance.

Social darwinism is taboo in academic environments, if a student would hand me an essay with this idea in it, it would be brought to their attention in a private meeting, they would probably be given some extra reading materials or referred to their history professor or some such thing. It is intolerable in academic writing due to its racist connotations.

It gained some traction in the business world in ads and such, mainly as a cynical joke, but business is pretty morally and ethically bankrupt and devoid of facts, however people see and hear it commonly and aren't aware of the true meaning and history, many don't care. it is frightening to hear so many people jumping back on that bandwagon starting with Reagan era Republicans. It's not that they are not politically correct, they are racist and most don't even know it. Our educational system is lousy, and people get their "facts" from ads, fictional tv shows, and pseudo-news and websites.

Stopping drinking doesn't make a person not an alcoholic, they are just an alcoholic who stopped drinking. But the who cares, my problems and my successes only affect me and are only mine pov, overcoming that self-absorbed attitude takes work and that is what programs do. No one cares, no one helped me quit is just the flipside of I never hurt anyone but myself with my drinking. Both are dangerous and untrue. When you give some credit where credit is due and open your eyes to the good around you and be thankful, doing for others less fortunate, actually defying your mantra, instead of living "I got mine screw you", you stop being so needy and feeling sorry for yourself. That is the path of transitioning from being an alcoholic to a whole person again. I don't mean you're needy or feeling sorry I mean you in the broad sense, one, I'm just sayign, that's why programs or some more help along the way from others is necessary, I believe.

Last edited by muskrat_skull; 01-28-2013 at 09:46 PM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:51 AM   #173
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Stopping drinking doesn't make a person not an alcoholic, they are just an alcoholic who stopped drinking. But the who cares, my problems and my successes only affect me and are only mine pov, overcoming that self-absorbed attitude takes work and that is what programs do. No one cares, no one helped me quit is just the flipside of I never hurt anyone but myself with my drinking. Both are dangerous and untrue. When you give some credit where credit is due and open your eyes to the good around you and be thankful, doing for others less fortunate, actually defying your mantra, instead of living "I got mine screw you", you stop being so needy and feeling sorry for yourself. That is the path of transitioning from being an alcoholic to a whole person again. I don't mean you're needy or feeling sorry I mean you in the broad sense, one, I'm just saying, that's why programs or some more help along the way from others is necessary, I believe.
First off your social Darwinism thing is probably true , but survival of the fittest pre-dates any and all theories by centuries ! Nature has been taking care of that in the wild since the Creator created everything.It started way before man started writing about it !
Secondly , you have no idea who or what I am. You have no right to assume anything about me. I quit drinking....on my own...and went on to be one of the best in my field. I am mostly healthy , generous , respected and unless arguing with some idiot generally a humble man.I'm a decent dancer and I build regalia. I pray on a semi-regular basis and I have a good relationship with The Creator.I love my wife and she is my best friend. There are some on here that know me personally and I'm pretty sure they would tell you I a decent fellow.
Bottom line is ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS !
Until that happens there is no resolution.
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:38 AM   #174
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First off your social Darwinism thing is probably true , but survival of the fittest pre-dates any and all theories by centuries ! Nature has been taking care of that in the wild since the Creator created everything.It started way before man started writing about it !
Secondly , you have no idea who or what I am. You have no right to assume anything about me. I quit drinking....on my own...and went on to be one of the best in my field. I am mostly healthy , generous , respected and unless arguing with some idiot generally a humble man.I'm a decent dancer and I build regalia. I pray on a semi-regular basis and I have a good relationship with The Creator.I love my wife and she is my best friend. There are some on here that know me personally and I'm pretty sure they would tell you I a decent fellow.
Bottom line is ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS !
Until that happens there is no resolution.
First off, I am sorry if you feel I was judging you, I was replying to the words you wrote. I don't know about you, but my family keeps me on the straight and narrow, simply by being there. Sounds like that is true for you, too.

It also sounds like you don't totally subscribe to survival of the fittest, but in helping people.

I was playing devil's advocate because you were talking tough, and there is so much of that these days and sometimes people start believing it and living it and losing their way.

Quitting and for 20 years is massive, you are the only one I know besides me that is that long. I agree personal responsibility is the only way. No one likes growing up in a family of drinkers. I know this firsthand. The person can quit, but alot of things keep them off it, programs, personal change, spirituality, the Creator as you say. Its not all one way or the other. its both.

I believe that if someone asked you for help, you would help them, especially if they were weaker. Thats different than the person you portrayed in the post I responded to. The fact you quit says that. Sure, we all quit for ourselves, but we quit for others too, even future others or past others or spiritual others.

I still got to disagree with you on one thing the survival of the fittest. Yes, the idea goes back to first dog that wrestled a bone from another one, that urge is there to have for ones self. But does it explain why a mother cares for her child, whether human or animal? If you want to get down to it, there once was one type of cell, before oxygen, before life as we know it, during the creation of the earth, it was primitive life, like slime in the bottom of the river. These single celled organisms lacked a nucleus, or center, they were plant type cells, called prokaryotes. These cells ate gases like methane and sulphur and excreted oxygen as waste, forming our atmosphere or at least adding to it. The presence of oxygen allowed other life forms to grow that fed on oxygen. these life forms were dependent upon each other, cooperating. At some point, some prokaryotic cells "ate" other prokaryotic cells, and these eaten cells did not die, but lived on inside the host cell cooperatively, even performing vital functions for the cell and helping it to prosper and thereby survive. The eaten cell became the nucleus we know of in animal cells, that make up animals and humans.

Even now, new biological drugs made of disease attacking bacteria are gaining ground in curing disease, these organisms are supposed to live symbiotically (cooperatively) within us to fight the disease for us when we can't.

Basically, its how you want to view the world. Competitively and combatively or cooperatively, from fear or from love. Darwin gave "scientific credence" to destructive "survival of the fittest" view of the world. If you look at Ojibwe story of muskrat bringing the mud, full of prokaryotes, up to Sky Woman, he could have said, forget it. He could have only thought of himself. He could have thought competitively. But he decided to cooperate and do what the others couldn't, even though he nearly died.

Every mythology and religion pretty much debunk the idea as a bad way to go. Its what we see in the world though, because the thought of it is a threat is all. So it seems true and prominent. But it isn't true. That is what I believe and why. Its about as true as ripples in a pond.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 AM   #175
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I believe that if someone asked you for help, you would help them, especially if they were weaker. Thats different than the person you portrayed in the post I responded to. The fact you quit says that. Sure, we all quit for ourselves, but we quit for others too, even future others or past others or spiritual others.


To help someone who is willing to take responsibility and change the way they live is one thing. To help someone who is not going to change, and will only whine about it being everyone else's fault, is useless !

I still got to disagree with you on one thing the survival of the fittest. Yes, the idea goes back to first dog that wrestled a bone from another one, that urge is there to have for ones self. But does it explain why a mother cares for her child, whether human or animal?

Yes it does ! In the wild, a mother animal will care for the baby....until it is determined that the baby is defective and then often times the mother will remove that baby from the nest.
All species do that !
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:34 PM   #176
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I usually don't have much to say and I hope no one jumps on me for saying what I have to say!
I know some are going to disagree with me on this thought but I don't believe alcoholism is a disease, I think it is a weakness!
I agree with those saying it is a choice. My husband has drank for the last 20 years, has tried to stop several times...only because I threatened to leave him! I knew there was a good person inside of the drunk, and knew eventually he would crawl out!
He quit drinking this past Nov., not because I wanted him to do this but he knew it was time for him! He woke up one morning and decided he had had enough!
He has quit drinking before and the longest it lasted was three months, but he didn't quit for himself! I hope I'm not wrong!
At one time I was drinking way too much on a daily basis and realized this is not what I want MY CHOICE.
I liked to drink on the weekends and loved cold beer during the summer weather, and what's a good football game without drinking a few cold ones! But now that he isn't drinking I don't want to out of respect for him.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:38 PM   #177
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I considered writing reams of paper about the suspect academic vilification of Social Darwinism, invoking Godwin's Law on the Nazi reference, and otherwise retreating to my cave with a win but find it easier to do this before my espresso cools...

1. Darwinism just is. Life isn't lived in a PhD thesis.
2. Helping others to the point it harms you is dumb.
3. A penny or minute given to someone who won't help themselves is wasted.
4. It's NOT wrong for me to keep the penny or minute that I could use.

It's the same argument I use for Natives as, in any little manner I can, I'll help someone trying to improve themselves.

But the Rezzed out fool crying "sovereignty" whilst trying to maintain a lifestyle that isn't traditional, living on land that isn't theirs, and subsisting on the table scraps of the Great White Father whose mind lives in long over generational trauma not personally experienced?

Helping that guy is a waste as he lives for the metaphorical zoo and his kind is served only by their prolific powers of inebriated/wedlock reproduction.

Nope, I'm not given a thin dime. Eventually, Darwinism will win and it won't be because of anything I did or didn't do, it just is.

It's a universal truth.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #178
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So you design high fashion handbags. You are a doctor. You have time to get on powwows. You actually talked to and are champion to drunks. You watch Dr. Oz and tell others to. You come on here and diss our people and equate KOREA (yes it is spelled in the Americas with a K) and you are equating your Asian experience with the American Indian experience?

You must think we will believe anything. Now if you were a French model, I might believe that....
I think you live in these models that you try to stuff things into. I'm relating, not equating. How can anybody's experience be equal? Even when you take children of the same family they grow up differently.
Korea was originally spelled Corea. Not high fashion, just fashion. I'm being open about my life experiences. I can't help it if its hard for you to believe, or if you feel threatened by it. I did what I could and hopefully I can do more.
You've only proven to sound like a divider of ppl...hmmmm, where have we seen that before? Who is playing/using the "French model"? And ppl are capable to think for themselves, you know?
Think beyond the boxes set up for you by white man, you'll see you aren't siding with truth, you are siding with fear. I suggest you do more research.
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When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it—always.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:49 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
...Social Darwinism, invoking Godwin's Law...
Social Darwinism and Godwin's law all in one post. You're stealing my material, LOL.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:50 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Social Darwinism and Godwin's law all in one post. You're stealing my material, LOL.
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