[2owls]

I know I'm gonna stirr up a hornets nest in here but there is an issue I think may need to be addressed...

Recently I've attended a few pow-wow's around north texas (only a few with being stationed at Altus AFB, Ok) and southern Oklahoma and I've noticed a very rare few dancing with owl fans, be it done with a wooden handle or a crafted wing. I've been able to identify what types of owl they are since that is a medicine I have been blessed by creator to learn from (and not by my choice either, I can thank my great-grandmother for that one), some have been barn, barred, or great horned.

My question is this... is it appropriate or even permissible at all for a gourd dancer to be in the circle let alone dancing with owl of any kind, be it loose feathers in the regalia or fan. If so, then what are the reasons for it?

[Zotigh]

Wow.

I won't dance in that circle, bud. And, it won't be from disrespect to you, sir.

Gourd Dance is Kiowa, and no Kiowa I know will dance when someone wears them death feathers.

This is not the place to talk of this.

Just wanted to tell you that those feathers are not appropriate to Gourd Dance.

[WocusWoman]

I agree and disagree with these ideas. I'm originally from Oregon, and where I'm from it is traditional for a woman to carry a owl feather fan for dancing traditional, instead or in place of an eagle feather fan. There is nothing to fear from an owl feather from the traditions I was taught. But, with that said, I would totally be open to the beliefs of the gourd dance and the ways in which I would respect those rules that have been practiced by the people who traditionally do the "Gourd Dance." Need I say more,"When in Rome..." you know the saying. It all comes down to respect of each other's people, culture and traditions.

[CHEROSAGE]

O si yo young man. I hope that you learned from your grandmother about the use and importance of the Owl in our culture. I know of your tribal cultures and if I were you I wouldn't take an owl or parts into any circle. I personally won't have any owl parts in my home.

I don't believe it would be appropriate to use any part(s) of any owl in the gourd dance or any powwow either. I have seen many people leave an arena when an individual entered the arena with owl feathers.

If your still in Altus, go over to Lawton and area for some dances over there. I was stationed at Ft. Sill a couple of times and have family over there. Please consider these thoughts in a good way.

[Zotigh]

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

I agree and disagree with these ideas...where I'm from it is traditional for a woman to carry a owl feather fan

Not in Gourd Dance.

I know that many tribes take medicine from the owl.

If this was the pan-native dance forum, I would not have even answered the post.

It's the Gourd Dance forum, and that is why owl feathers are not appropriate.

[2owls]

Cherosage --

my great grandmother kinda passed the medicine on to me when I was very young just before she passed away, being th last full blood cherokee in the family. It's been only in the last 12 years that I've been learning what I can about the proper ways of dealing with and working this type of medicine in a good way.

The reason why I posted about owl being used in a gourd dance is that I've run into a group that allow it in the Ft. Worth area and I believe they aren't Kiowa. The people I have danced with in the Dallas area have taught me the proper Kiowa way in regards to gourd dancing. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about the ways of the Kiowa and that is why I asked.

When I was attending a circle about a year and a half ago, I picked up on the medicine being present in the arena and found the person who had it with them and politely reminded them of what they were carrying in the circle, and around other kiowas. I just got chuckled at and told "yeah" and I just packed up and left. I may not be kiowa, but for me the gourd dance is a way for me to connect with my ancestors and pray for my family, friends, and everyone else I meet or will meet. Something like the gourd dance should not be disrespected let alone "tainted", for lack of a better expression, by someone bringing medicine that doesn't belong in that circle.

Everyone, thanks for answering my post and giving a better explaination.

[WocusWoman]

Originally Posted by Zotigh

Not in Gourd Dance.

I know that many tribes take medicine from the owl.

If this was the pan-native dance forum, I would not have even answered the post.

It's the Gourd Dance forum, and that is why owl feathers are not appropriate.

Yes, I realize that. If you had thoroughly read my post, that is what I was getting at. "When in rome, wear what the romans wear!" Guess you never heard that one...

[Eagle Plumes]

first of all i want to appologise for a woman speaking among men "meaning me" if it were not for Wocas Woman I would not of posted but being there was a woman already posting ill share too, Ive seen these feathers in the circle and by the request of my family we left the areana not making a big scene we just left for a while got out selves and our dance clothes smoked and later went back to see that they were asked to leave ,part of me felt for the people cause they truely did not know the ways of that areas dancers they had no clue it offended some they were really polite wanting to do the "rite thing" in later months we saw them again and they had hawk, they had said they were only useing them because thats all they had the other feathers had no meaning for them its just all they had. but following our ways we still had to do what we knew we had to do for our own health and saftey .