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Old 10-07-2004, 04:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
If knowledge isn't shared, then people don't learn. As for what the Cherokee have given....follow your own advice and research it. I have.....farewell
this guy talks like a a$$..... your wrong dogg... Our knowledge is shared with our children. when you speak you sound foolish... I wanna learn this or I wanna learn that??? Learn how to stomp dance that's a cherrokee custom..
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Old 10-07-2004, 05:46 PM   #42
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I wonder if the Maw-Bane Gourd Society is taking new members?

It seems to be the founding gourd society for a large number of other societies.
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Old 10-07-2004, 06:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
I wonder if the Maw-Bane Gourd Society is taking new members?

It seems to be the founding gourd society for a large number of other societies.
Don't forget about the Ay-Daw Gourd Society!
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Old 10-08-2004, 01:39 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
I wish ya could just explain how things are done instead of all the personal attacks.
"Don't bother me about who the dance belongs to, just give me your knowledge about how the dance is done so I can take it for my own."

"I could care less about your native sense of 'tribal ownership' of the dance. We out here just all do our 'own thang', and I want to show others I know more than they do."

"Go eat fry-bread and stfu."

:P

Happy dancin', "GreyDog".
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Old 10-08-2004, 02:01 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
As for what the Cherokee have given....follow your own advice and research it. I have.....farewell
heh

I didn't ask what the Cherokee have given to you or anyone else. I asked what YOU have given to your own Cherokee culture.

You've obviously spent a lot of time pursuing the cultures of other tribes through sweats and gourd dance, neither of which are of your supposed tribe's culture. Just curious what you've given to your own Cherokee culture.

Do you do anything for your own Cherokee culture? Or, do you just take from other folks culture?
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Old 10-08-2004, 09:59 AM   #46
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GDawg,

The Kiowa people have a saying when their children don't listen to the advice of their elders.

It is, "Eeeeeeeen' Haw!"

Loosely translated this means . . .



"That's what you get when you don't listen!
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
I wonder if the Maw-Bane Gourd Society is taking new members?

It seems to be the founding gourd society for a large number of other societies.
I heard of them Maw-Bane Members....
Some say they sure are Maw-Bane!!
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Old 10-12-2004, 02:35 AM   #48
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ya'll just slay me!!!!! or is it sleigh me!!!!
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Old 10-12-2004, 02:38 AM   #49
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By the way, is anyone going to the dance this month in McAllen TX? It is the 22nd and 23rd.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:10 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE
By the way, is anyone going to the dance this month in McAllen TX? It is the 22nd and 23rd.
I'll be working, Bob, but I'm still looking forward to meeting you someday. Have a gourd time!

(I'm John Kerry, and I approve this message)
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Old 10-12-2004, 02:36 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powwowbum49
Scott

I can understand your point of view and I can definitely agree about learning ones own tribal ways. However, it doesn't seem that odd that others are coming to find out about the dance when you look at it in context with the rest of the powwow world. I would venture a guess that there are at least as many jingle dress dancers from tribes that are not nish than there are within that tribe (and the same goes for the other dance styles that have 'old' origins). Powwowing is a multitribal (if not cultural) event and somewhere along the lines gourd dancing became a part it, (though thank gawd it hasn't became a context form of dance). Many have come to find that they enjoy the dance and so...they go to where they have been told the source of the dance is to try and learn more about it. They will never have the same feelings about it that the originators of the dance will but they still try to understand it origins and the purpose it serves to those people.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:45 PM   #52
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Hmmm! What have I done for my culture? Does attending DQ University (an NDN college staffed and owned 100% by NDN's) and completing a Cherokee language class count? Does sitting at a drum occupied by Cherokee and Chotaw count? Does being involved in teaching seminars about the Cherokee count? Does attending elemantary schools and speaking to the children about the Cherokee and other tribes count? With you it probably doesn't. Just because someone wants to learn about another culture doesn't mean that they don't know about their own. Nor does it mean their trying to "steal" that culture from them.
Let's see now! Do I listen to the principle Cheif of the Oklahoma Cherokee Tribe (Chad Smith) whom I spoke to in person and said that Gourd dancing was ok for me to do? Do I ignore that the Cherokee Gourd Society exists? Do I stop trying to learn? Or do I listen to an arrogant person who is so consumed with themself that he can't see that teahing an inquiring individual about gourd so that they in turn could go to their pow wows and explain to other "non-kiowas" why they shouldn't dance gourd? And...possibly direct them to someone or place that they can contact and seek the gift of Gourd dancing from the kiowa?
It's unfortunate that an honest attempt to learn something about your culture is met with childish name calling and anger.
As for me....I'm talking to a Kiowa Elder that moved out here. Surprisingly ....he's very helpful and informative an above chilish name calling.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
heh

I didn't ask what the Cherokee have given to you or anyone else. I asked what YOU have given to your own Cherokee culture.

You've obviously spent a lot of time pursuing the cultures of other tribes through sweats and gourd dance, neither of which are of your supposed tribe's culture. Just curious what you've given to your own Cherokee culture.

Do you do anything for your own Cherokee culture? Or, do you just take from other folks culture?
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:05 PM   #53
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PS...the Cherokee do sweats. We just don't consider them a ceremony in themselves rather as preparation for a ceremony. Do we Gourd? Ask the Cherokee Gourd Society!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
heh

I didn't ask what the Cherokee have given to you or anyone else. I asked what YOU have given to your own Cherokee culture.

You've obviously spent a lot of time pursuing the cultures of other tribes through sweats and gourd dance, neither of which are of your supposed tribe's culture. Just curious what you've given to your own Cherokee culture.

Do you do anything for your own Cherokee culture? Or, do you just take from other folks culture?
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Old 10-12-2004, 10:10 PM   #54
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Very glad to hear you give to your own culture, GreyDog.

Gourd Dance is still not 'public domain'.
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Old 10-12-2004, 11:21 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
Let's see now! Do I listen to the principle Cheif of the Oklahoma Cherokee Tribe (Chad Smith) whom I spoke to in person and said that Gourd dancing was ok for me to do?
kewl!

Does your Chief give permission to the Cherokee women to dance Jingle Dress also?

How 'bout the Zulu's dance? Can he give permission for their tribe's dance, too?

Amazing the rights your chief has in his purview to grant.

Awesome!
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Old 10-12-2004, 11:31 PM   #56
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Can you imagine how inappropriate it'd be for me to ask the Kiowa tribal chairman for permission for my daughters to dance Jingle Dress?

How disrespectful that'd be to the Objiwe who own that dance?

No...you don't.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.
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Old 10-12-2004, 11:47 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
Seems that after so many years of others doing this wonderful dance, that it just might be public domain by now. I'm not saying this is right. I'm just asking if maybe the issue of "ownership" should be dropped.
That statement is where you are arrogant and way off base.

The Kiowa will not "drop" their ownership of our dance.

Your view that our dance should be 'public domain' shows a pronounced non-native view of tribal ownership of customs.
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:09 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
Very glad to hear you give to your own culture, GreyDog.

Gourd Dance is still not 'public domain'.
Hey Zotight could you give me permission to STomp Dance? I love it! can you teach me the ways of the stomp dance??

I think Stomp Dance should be public domain!!! Everybodys doing it!
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:45 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDNTacO49
Hey Zotight could you give me permission to STomp Dance? I love it! can you teach me the ways of the stomp dance??

I think Stomp Dance should be public domain!!! Everybodys doing it!

ROFLOL

okay...someone get's it. Thank goodness!


Thanks, NDNTacO49.

:)
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:36 PM   #60
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Question mr. zotigh...

You seem to know alot about kiowa history....and you seem to be telling everybody off, that they don't know anything and that they need to go to kiowa country to get answers, but how come you never seem to get to kiowa country your ownself...you talk about being members of all these societies, but you don't ever show up...why is that????
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